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Old Friday 17th November 2017, 22:10   #51
Alexis Powell
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Originally Posted by james holdsworth View Post
Elk and Moose are entirely different species.
That is only true if you are comparing _Alces alces_ to _Cervus canadensis_, as would be the case according to American English usage.

The confusion comes from the fact that in American English we use the name "Moose" for the genus _Alces_, whereas in British English the word "Elk" has been applied, historically, to any really large species in the deer family (Cervidae), including the extinct giant Irish Elk, as well as to the taxon called Moose in American English. Based on my reading and conversations with folks from Europe, the word Moose is also commonly used, nowadays, in Britain and Europe to refer to _Alces_, so happily, use of that word is unambiguous, even if some would only apply it strictly to _Alces_ when found in North America.

In American English, the name "Elk" or "Wapiti" is used for the species _Cervus canadensis_. That species is a fairly close relative of (and looks very similar to) the Red Deer _Cervus elaphus_ of the Old World. So the North American species would likely be recognized as a sort of "Deer" by users of British English, as GunnarGG noted. Of course, in the grand scheme of things, all these species (including Moose) are a sort of deer, as they are all members of the Cervidae.

--AP

PS - I have, on numerous occasions, used my Zeiss 8x32 FL to observe both Moose (_Alces_) and Wapiti/Elk (_Cervus_), often in the same day, and once (at Grand Tetons National Park) at the very same time!

Last edited by Alexis Powell : Friday 17th November 2017 at 22:19. Reason: add PS
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Old Friday 17th November 2017, 22:49   #52
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Thanks for the explanations about elk/moose.
I'm glad to see you guys enjoying your fl 8x32 and obviously not only for birds.
It's dark after work nowadays so haven't used mine much but did get to see some bullfinches with it today, very nice.
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Old Saturday 18th November 2017, 16:33   #53
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To tie this thread together, i came across a moose and calf on the edge of a marsh area in Poland - keeping well under cover, i watched them on the edge of some high grasses for about 30 minutes - through Zeiss FL 8x32s! Ta Da!!!
I have had the same good fortune here in our national forest, but only for around 30 seconds. I really felt blessed this day... for the sighting and not getting trampled!

CG
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Old Saturday 18th November 2017, 17:06   #54
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I have had the same good fortune here in our national forest, but only for around 30 seconds. I really felt blessed this day... for the sighting and not getting trampled!

CG
Great pics CG, thanks for sharing.

Lee
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Old Saturday 18th November 2017, 20:47   #55
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I have had the same good fortune here in our national forest, but only for around 30 seconds. I really felt blessed this day... for the sighting and not getting trampled!CG
Mother Moose doesn't look too thrilled to see you.
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Old Tuesday 21st November 2017, 02:22   #56
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I think it was a "look in the mirror moment" as I had my little girl at my side... or so I like to think!!!

CG
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Old Tuesday 21st November 2017, 14:25   #57
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The British Red Deer and the North American Elk would seem to be the same species, according to the experience of a North American wildlife park (whose reference I have lost). The two subspecies interbred enthusiastically, resulting in fertile offspring.

So the names can be summarized as

what Brits call a deer, the Americans call an elk;
what Brits call an elk, the Americans call a moose;
what the Brits call a mousse, the Americans call jello.
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Old Tuesday 21st November 2017, 16:46   #58
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Originally Posted by GunnarGG View Post
Gijs,
you are spot on with the heavy turning resistans, that was the problem.
You are probably also right about the hunters, I think a hunter would have thought that it was just fine as it was.

With my other binos, and my FL now after it was fixed, I apply a small amount of force to make the focus wheel start moving and I can make very small and precise adjustments.

With the FL when I got it first that small amount of force didn't move the focus wheel. I then had to apply a little more force until it moved and when it then did move it made a small jump of maybe 1 or 2 mm and so no precision.
If I looked at a bird and the focus was let's say 10-20 cm in front of it and tried to get it in focus I would end up having the focus 10-20 cm behind it instead. It took me rocking the focus back and forth several times before I found correct focus. Then the bird moved and I had to start over again, pretty annoying.

Maybe a hunter sets the focus on a spot 100-200 meters away and keeps it there for long time. So a focus with higher resistance is wanted.
Hi Gunnar,

I just bought an FL 8x32 as well and received it yesterday.

I got to try an old green model recently (about 12yrs old) for about 3+ hours and was very impressed with it. I liked the small size, super smooth focus, over-sized focus wheel and the clean , sharp image. The CA control is superb and the best I've ever seen.


The brand new FL I have now has a stiffer focus compared to the old green model I tried. It's not terribly stiff and not stiff enough to warrant returning the binocular. It's just a bit tighter than I would prefer. I don't think it's as stiff as your unit out of the box based on your initial description of the focus action.

I think the focus tension is indeed something a hunter would be pleased with, but for birding you need easy and fluid focus action since you're moving the focus constantly and need to get on those quick birds.
Normally, I don't prefer a very fast focus, but I got along very well with the FL's faster focus (compared to my Ultravid). Lee told me to give it some time and send it to Zeiss to adjust if it doesn't loosen up enough to my liking.

I'll give it more time. Overall, I'm very pleased with the FL and glad I grabbed one before their impending extinction.

Surprisingly, I'm able to see the full FOV with my glasses. The ER specs state 15.5mm or 16mm (depending on the website) which is usually a bit too short for me with other bins. I was unable to see the full FOV with the Euro HD 8x32 which has the same listed ER (15.5mm).

I sold my Viper HD 6x32 and also my Zeiss Jenoptem 8x30 to help pay for the FL. These were difficult to see go since I liked them both quite a bit, but the FL is just SO good I know I'll forget about the others soon enough.

Two 'living legends' : Ultravid+ 7x42 and Victory FL 8x32, classic and venerated designs which are fortunately still available to purchase ... for now.

Last edited by Gilmore Girl : Tuesday 21st November 2017 at 16:56.
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Old Tuesday 21st November 2017, 18:07   #59
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I just called Zeiss US service to what they recommend for the stiff focus.
I told them I'd prefer it a wee bit looser.
They said it should loosen up with use over time, but if I'm still not satisfied I can send it in.
However, FL's are sent to Germany for repair and it would take like 10 weeks turnaround Think I'll give it more time

He also said they are planning to be able to repair all models in the future in their new NY location, so that's good news. They moved from VA to NY recently.
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Old Wednesday 22nd November 2017, 11:51   #60
gcole
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[quote=Gilmore Girl;3646130]Hi Gunnar,

I just bought an FL 8x32 as well and received it yesterday.
.
I'll give it more time. Overall, I'm very pleased with the FL and glad I grabbed one before their impending extinction.

Surprisingly, I'm able to see the full FOV with my glasses. The ER specs state 15.5mm or 16mm (depending on the website) which is usually a bit too short for me with other bins. I was unable to see the full FOV with the Euro HD 8x32 which has the same listed ER (15.5mm).

Gilmore Girl , I tried the FL 8x32 about 2 years ago and was also quite impressed and that experience left me wanting one. Now with my recent purchase of a pair of Cabelas Euro Instinct 8x32 HD binoculars that arrived with no issues what so ever ...... I can see the full field of view with my glasses, the view is exceptionally sharp/crisp to my eyes and the focus wheel tension/speed is perfect for me. When I tried the FL 8x32 I had the same experienced that I had with the Cabelas Euro but with the FL 8x32 feeling to be more robust in construction. Having said this, I now no longer feel the desire to purchase the FL 8x32. Going from memory the view optically was so similar. With the cost of the FL 8x32 now being over a $1,000 more than what I paid for the Cabelas Euro 8x32 on sale I am glad I waited. If your experience had been the same as I had with the Cabelas Euro 8x32 HD. Arriving with no issues. With the eye relief/ tension focus being to your liking. Would you have been so quick to have purchased the FL 8x32 ?

Last edited by gcole : Wednesday 22nd November 2017 at 12:04.
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Old Wednesday 22nd November 2017, 16:35   #61
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[quote=gcole;3646358]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilmore Girl View Post
Hi Gunnar,

I just bought an FL 8x32 as well and received it yesterday.
.
I'll give it more time. Overall, I'm very pleased with the FL and glad I grabbed one before their impending extinction.

Surprisingly, I'm able to see the full FOV with my glasses. The ER specs state 15.5mm or 16mm (depending on the website) which is usually a bit too short for me with other bins. I was unable to see the full FOV with the Euro HD 8x32 which has the same listed ER (15.5mm).

Gilmore Girl , I tried the FL 8x32 about 2 years ago and was also quite impressed and that experience left me wanting one. Now with my recent purchase of a pair of Cabelas Euro Instinct 8x32 HD binoculars that arrived with no issues what so ever ...... I can see the full field of view with my glasses, the view is exceptionally sharp/crisp to my eyes and the focus wheel tension/speed is perfect for me. When I tried the FL 8x32 I had the same experienced that I had with the Cabelas Euro but with the FL 8x32 feeling to be more robust in construction. Having said this, I now no longer feel the desire to purchase the FL 8x32. Going from memory the view optically was so similar. With the cost of the FL 8x32 now being over a $1,000 more than what I paid for the Cabelas Euro 8x32 on sale I am glad I waited. If your experience had been the same as I had with the Cabelas Euro 8x32 HD. Arriving with no issues. With the eye relief/ tension focus being to your liking. Would you have been so quick to have purchased the FL 8x32 ?
Hi Gwen,

If I was able to see the whole FOV with the Euro I may have kept it, but it's hard to say. At around the same time I bought the Viper HD 6x32. I decided I liked the comfortable view of the 6x32 better and got rid of the Meopta. Initially, I thought ok only a small part of the view is cut off in the Euro and told myself it's no biggie. But, it did begin to bother me after awhile since I paid several hundred dollars for it new (back then).

I think the current discounted price for the Euro HD is incredible and I can't blame you at all for sticking with it when it works so well for you.

I agree the FL is better built and I do like the FL's over-sized focus wheel and focus action better than the Euro HD (which was a bit stiff as well), but I remember liking the very simple and easy to use diopter on the Euro.

I don't remember too much about the Euro optics/view. I was more impressed with the excellent handling/ergonomics which fit like a glove. I think the FL handling/fit for me is fine, but it could be improved with some thumb indents like on the Euro.

I don't remember being as impressed with the optics of the Euro (vs FL). I remember thinking gee this Meopta bin is very nice and the view very nice too, but with the FL I had a stronger reaction and it generally made a bigger impression. Since I don't have these two to compare directly I can only go by my recollection of my initial thoughts and general feelings with each separately.

Last edited by Gilmore Girl : Wednesday 22nd November 2017 at 16:58.
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Old Wednesday 22nd November 2017, 19:04   #62
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Hi Gunnar,

I just bought an FL 8x32 as well and received it yesterday.

I got to try an old green model recently (about 12yrs old) for about 3+ hours and was very impressed with it. I liked the small size, super smooth focus, over-sized focus wheel and the clean , sharp image. The CA control is superb and the best I've ever seen.


The brand new FL I have now has a stiffer focus compared to the old green model I tried. It's not terribly stiff and not stiff enough to warrant returning the binocular. It's just a bit tighter than I would prefer. I don't think it's as stiff as your unit out of the box based on your initial description of the focus action.

I think the focus tension is indeed something a hunter would be pleased with, but for birding you need easy and fluid focus action since you're moving the focus constantly and need to get on those quick birds.
Normally, I don't prefer a very fast focus, but I got along very well with the FL's faster focus (compared to my Ultravid). Lee told me to give it some time and send it to Zeiss to adjust if it doesn't loosen up enough to my liking.

I'll give it more time. Overall, I'm very pleased with the FL and glad I grabbed one before their impending extinction.

Surprisingly, I'm able to see the full FOV with my glasses. The ER specs state 15.5mm or 16mm (depending on the website) which is usually a bit too short for me with other bins. I was unable to see the full FOV with the Euro HD 8x32 which has the same listed ER (15.5mm).

I sold my Viper HD 6x32 and also my Zeiss Jenoptem 8x30 to help pay for the FL. These were difficult to see go since I liked them both quite a bit, but the FL is just SO good I know I'll forget about the others soon enough.

Two 'living legends' : Ultravid+ 7x42 and Victory FL 8x32, classic and venerated designs which are fortunately still available to purchase ... for now.
Congrats on the new bino Beth. I have yet to try that one, but I do like the design. It has more of an old school look than the current crop of binoculars, even though the FL's aren't too old. I also like that it is a fully closed bridge design than the trend of two barrels connected by a thin bridge at the top (like the new swaro CL). I have trouble with those designs and like having a larger surface area to wrap my hands around in the smaller binoculars. I hope the focuser on yours sorts itself out. Please keep us posted on your thoughts about it.
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Old Wednesday 22nd November 2017, 20:20   #63
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Congrats on the new bino Beth. I have yet to try that one, but I do like the design. It has more of an old school look than the current crop of binoculars, even though the FL's aren't too old. I also like that it is a fully closed bridge design than the trend of two barrels connected by a thin bridge at the top (like the new swaro CL). I have trouble with those designs and like having a larger surface area to wrap my hands around in the smaller binoculars. I hope the focuser on yours sorts itself out. Please keep us posted on your thoughts about it.
Thanks Jack.

The new Swaro CL sounds like it has great optics, but I passed on it in favor of the FL after finally getting some real time with an FL even though the FL's and Ultravid's , with their older classic designs, are 'so last week'

I prefer traditional single bridge binos too in general, but I have to say the Swaro SV field pro 8x32 is one beautiful binocular which I came very close to buying.

Right before the FL purchase I thought gee maybe I should wait until Noctivid 8x32 comes out since I'm a Leica fan...but, I connected so well with the little FL and always admired them (at the store) I decided to buy one before they are no longer available. I'm very glad I made the big purchase.

I'll finally get some time with it since I have some days off beginning tomorrow.
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Old Thursday 23rd November 2017, 14:34   #64
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The British Red Deer and the North American Elk would seem to be the same species, according to the experience of a North American wildlife park (whose reference I have lost). The two subspecies interbred enthusiastically, resulting in fertile offspring.
In the past, you are right that the Red Deer and Wapiti were considered the same species because they can interbreed. However, with better understanding of the biology of speciation, that simple standard is no longer synonymous with defining or diagnosing species limits. In general, species are now understood as independent evolutionary lineages, and diagnosis is based on studies of genetic relationship and connectivity. Based on my quick review of the literature, it seems that studies find that Wapiti and Red Deer are closely related, but Wapiti are more closely related to some other old world deer species than they are to Red Deer, so they are now named as different species.

--AP
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Old Thursday 23rd November 2017, 21:49   #65
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Yeah, 'connecting well' with the FL was what happened to me, and it's still my fave bin for practical walking and birding.
With the focus wheel - perhaps before you bought it, it was sitting around for a while, or hasn't been used seriously for a time (if ever, if new).
It might be worth just slowly, gently turning it from near to infinity for a while, perhaps while doing something else. It could just be the grease needs a bit of warming up and getting a bit more spread about, or whatever grease likes to do....
The only bin i liked nearly as much was the Kowa (8x33 i think), which was close for CA control. I would have liked the Swaro, but comparing side-by-side with the FL, definitely had more CA than the Zeiss. I'd be interested to see an 8x32 SF if it ever happens, but it would have to be really something to tempt me to 'upgrade,' if that's what it turns out to be.
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Old Friday 24th November 2017, 19:39   #66
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Yeah, 'connecting well' with the FL was what happened to me, and it's still my fave bin for practical walking and birding.
With the focus wheel - perhaps before you bought it, it was sitting around for a while, or hasn't been used seriously for a time (if ever, if new).
It might be worth just slowly, gently turning it from near to infinity for a while, perhaps while doing something else. It could just be the grease needs a bit of warming up and getting a bit more spread about, or whatever grease likes to do....
The only bin i liked nearly as much was the Kowa (8x33 i think), which was close for CA control. I would have liked the Swaro, but comparing side-by-side with the FL, definitely had more CA than the Zeiss. I'd be interested to see an 8x32 SF if it ever happens, but it would have to be really something to tempt me to 'upgrade,' if that's what it turns out to be.
I had my first day out with it today...it's great. The focus seems to have loosened a little bit already. I think it will be fine with more use over time.
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