• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Promaster ELX ED vs Alphas (1 Viewer)

Steve C

Well-known member
I found a store which had a pretty decent selection of binoculars. I took the opportunity to compare my Promaster to Brunton Epoch 7.5x43, Leica Ultravid HD 8x42, Steiner 8x44 Peregrine XP, Swarovski 8.5x42 EL, and Zeiss 8x42 FL. This is a big store with a Brunton Resolution chart on a wall about 150 feet away from the counter. I could take the binoculars outside as well.

After several decades of believing that I’d have t come up with big $$$ to get the view I found when I looked through the Promaster, I was left wondering if maybe I’d missed something. After all a $500 glass can’t be that good, can it? So I did a little research.

The short story is that with the resolution chart the Promaster is a tiny bit behind the others in terms of the detail it will pull off of the chart. If there’s a winner on the chart, it’s the Leica, followed almost too closely to tell the difference was the Zeiss. I doubt I could tell the difference in the Swarovski and the Steiner. The Brunton is outstanding as well. Take the binoculars outside and put a gun to my head, I could see no practical difference in the resolving ability of any of them. If I couldn’t quite read something outside with the Promaster or the 7.5x Epoch, I couldn’t read it with any of the others either. Any of the binoculars gives a bright, sharp, clear, crisp and contrasty view that I could live with any of them. The images do however have a different “look” to them. As I said, I doubt I could tell the Steiner and the Swarovski apart, but the Leica, Zeiss and Bruton I could. Some people will see those differences as quite profound. A lot of this is pretty subjective, but the Leica is pretty close to perfect in color rendition and no color bias. The Zeiss is the brightest. The Brunton is a bit lacking in fov. The Steiner & Swaro are a tad on the warm image side. The Promaster and Brunton are maybe not as bright as the Zeiss, but not quite as neutral as the Leica. The Promaster does fall behind the others in that it has a somewhat shallower depth of field. So The Promaster hold its own optically very well.

Ergonomics and build quality is a bit different. As it should not be unexpected for a silver mirrored prism system to not quite compare with state of the art dielectric coatings, I suppose it should be no surprise that there should be some differences here. My clear preference in ergonomics goes to the Steiner XP. It is built like the proverbial tank. It literally has the heft and feel that says “run over me with that truck”. The armor has a superb tactile feel. Diopter is on the left side. The Leica’s and the Brunton are clearly the smallest and most compact of the lot, which will appeal to many. The Swaro EL feels about like the Steiner, without the superb grip of the XP. The Zeiss feels just fine in the hand, but I can really see where some people describe it as “plastic”. I wouldn’t call it that, but Zeiss ought to take a close look at the Steiner covering. To me the Zeiss just feels too slick. For that matter Leica could be a bit better in a soft grippy surface too. The surface coating on the Promaster is better in my view than anything but the Steiner. The Promaster is not as comfortable in hand as either the Steiner or the Swarovski which both have more room between the hinges for a three finger grip, rather than the two finger grip of the Promaster. There is also more room between the barrels on the Steiner and the Swarovski than in the Promaster.

So with the $500 Promaster you get an image that for all practical purposes gives up little if anything to the other binoculars. The overall “feel” of each image will certainly influence people’s impression. But image wise not much difference. The big difference is a slightly shallower depth of focus. I can see where people get off on the “Leica image” or the "Zeiss image” or the "Swarovski image”. Now if I could wave my wand, I’d put the Leica focus system on the Steiner XP and fit it with the optional Swarovski angled eyecups, and I’d be good to go. The Brunton would fare better in this class if the FOV was better than it is. You really notice that most when outside in a comparison with another good binocular. Now, if you are in the alpha market, take a good hard look at the Steiner XP. It easily belongs in the alpha class and I see it as the Euro 4 at this point. It is also $300 less than the Euro 3. For now I am happy with the Promaster
 
Last edited:
Excellent and very helpful comparison, Steve. Many thanks. The Steiner sounds interesting, can be got in the UK apparently for 899 sterling, compared to the Swaro at 999. It´s a pity the Swaro wasn´t made in 8x42, because that would (presumably) have given it wider FOV than the Steiner.

Edit and correction: according to the Steiner.co.uk website, they are available from them at 715 sterling, which is significantly cheaper than competitors.

A question....in your side-by-side comparison, Steve, did you find the extra half-degree of mag of the Swaros to be meaningful? (I know this is subjective as well!)
 
Last edited:
Strange that we almost never get any Steiner fans here.

I don't mind the Vortex macho names, but the Steiners seem to go further. Nice of them to name one Peregrine instead of Duck Killer, though. ;)
 
Sancho,

No, I do not see any meaningful difference with the extra .5x magnification in the Swarovski. Nor did I see a lack of detail with the 7.5 Brunton, at least outside. On the chart in the store, the Swaro beat the Brunton, but due to difference in magnification or optics, I don't know. Outside, reading license plates and store signs, I could not tell. Maybe if the resolution test was more sophisticated it would show up. What is really needed is a target set up like we've all seen in the cops and robbers TV shows where the target is taken out to distance mechanically. You'd need something like that to gradually move the resolution chart further out until some particular point on the chart would no longer resolve, and record the distance for each glass.

Tero,

Since Steiner has only recently attempted to appeal to a wider customer base and try to attract some birders, it probably isn't so strange. They are a victim of their own past philosophy. Build them tough first and optical quality last. What optical quality they had were what was mandated by the military/tactical/rugged spec instrument they catered to. Also their newer Predator class glass was a hunter only glass. It works as advertised on game animals, but the violet tint sucks for general use. They also have made some pretty crappy cheap binoculars. They seem to finally have realized that the difference between a good birding glass and a good hunting glass is absolutely zero. They also seemed to have the notion that they can carry the tough as nails part of their history along with top optics. One of the appeals of the Steiner for me is the fact that this has the look of a high quality binocular that you need have no worries about babying in the field. Not that any of the others are a weakling, the Steiner had a more solid aura about it. It is something you look through, not at. Also the Steiner is the best glass I have had , along with the Leica, that gives me the best, most precise, just right, focus for each eye. If I have a problem with a binocular it is almost always that my dominant, and slightly weaker right eye can't be focused quite as sharply as the left eye.

Owen,

I was more or less forced to condense. When I started typing out this post from notes and looked at what I wrote, my thought was "....what a windbag, tone it down dude".
 
In the UK prices quoted on the internet seem to vary from an eye watering c£1,400 to a far more reasonable £665 (the latter at http://www.bristolcameras.co.uk/p-steiner-discovery-8x44-binocular.htm). They certainly seem well designed and engineered, but, despite a hefty advertising campaign when they came out here in the UK, they don't seem to have attracted a substantial following. Unfortunately when the advertising was at it's height so too was the price being roughly comperable to the 'alpha' optics (great tern btw). I suspect too that, at a time when most people are moving towards smaller lighter binoculars, it was a bad move to head in the opposite direction! I can't help feeling that models like the Promaster and Hawke ED will effectively kill off the 'middle ground' (i.e. £450-600 bins) leaving only good value cheaper models and the top end for the badge conscious nit-wits like me!

John
 
That´s some price variation, John! I´m assuming that the Steiner Discovery XD 8x44 are the same bins as the Steiner Peregrines our Stateside compañeros are talking about.
 
Sancho,

The Discovery XD appears to be the same binocular as the Peregrine XP, with one difference that I see in the photo. The Discovery has a more typical feed the strap through the attachment sort of arrangement. The Peregrine XP strap has a snap fitting on the end that snaps into a recess on the binocular. This recess is on top of the rubber armour, and oriented parallel to the axis of the glass. This makes a nearly unobtrusive strap attachment in the XP. How substantial it will prove to be, I don't know. It looks to be in line with the overall durability seen in the rest of the binocular. That is the only difference there looks to be in the two.
 
Thanks Steve. When I first received my Promaster ED 8x42 I was a little underwhelmed. I had set the diopter a couple times and felt I had it but the view kept looking "not right" especially compared to my 8.5 EL's. I finally tweaked the diopter a .5 degree and POP there was the view I expected. I was surprised the little adjustment made such a difference. I don't remember that with any other bino. For the price the ProMaster is tough to match. To me the 8.5 EL still is a smidge sharper with a wider FOV and .5 more magnification but I wouldn't buy one now. Probably won't sell the one I have but I wouldn't be looking for one either.

Dave
 
This is an interesting thread. Many of us have some reservations about these. I for instance wonder about resolution, and about the unknown, so far, 10x version.
 
I found a store which had a pretty decent selection of binoculars. I took the opportunity to compare my Promaster to Brunton Epoch 7.5x43, Leica Ultravid HD 8x42, Steiner 8x44 Peregrine XP, Swarovski 8.5x42 EL, and Zeiss 8x42 FL. This is a big store with a Brunton Resolution chart on a wall about 150 feet away from the counter. I could take the binoculars outside as well.

Steve, Did the resolution chart look anything like this one?
 

Attachments

  • IMGP0531 (Medium).JPG
    IMGP0531 (Medium).JPG
    40.4 KB · Views: 124
The Brunton resolution chart has that arrangement off on the right hand side of the chart. The main part (it's a big chart) has a black and white line drawing of a wooded mountain valley with lots of vegetation. Close in in the drawing is a large bear, and further up the valley is a large antlered Elk (Red Deer). The drawing must be computer generated, but it is a wonderful background for drawing details out of optics. The closer you get to the chart, or the higher magnification you use, the more detail there is that keeps popping out of the drawing. Switch to a spotting scope and keep cranking up the magnification, and the finer detail in that drawing keeps coming out. You really have to see the thing I suppose. Doesn't show up on Brunton's site. The store said Brunton gives them to dealers.
 
Steve,
You visiting the SW in Kennewick? Just curious as I'll know from your postings what they have in stock......

Dave
 
More info on those Steiner 8x44 Discovery/Peregrine XP: 20mm of eye-relief. 7.4 degrees angular FOV. Exit Pupil of 5.5mm. Weight 30oz., or 840gm. So they´re heavier than comparable Z/S/L/Nikon Edg, but with better eye-relief and exit pupil, and similar FOV to L/S. Available in UK at around 700 sterling (or less than 1,000 USD/850 Euro). I´d love to see a pair! 30-year guarantee (although I´m not sure if that´s just in the U.S....wasn´t there some argy-bargy when Leica HD´s came out about their guarantee being limited to 10 years because of EU regulations?)
 
Last edited:
Warning! This thread is more than 15 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top