Received My Docter 10x40b Aspheric's Today (1 Viewer)

optiman · Dec 20, 2010

Hi All,
I wanted to share my thought's on these: Today i received a pair of used Docter's 10x40b Aspheric's from a birder here on BF. I was very unsure and weary of these bin's, as there was little information on them. I was BLOWN away by their quality. I mean BLOWN away. They compare very favourably to the branded and popular Nikon 8x32 SE. That's saying a lot. The crisp and brightness is superb. They're ergonomically beautiful to hold. I am not a big believer in 10x's, but, these have minimal shake to boot. Waterproof and tough as nails. Armoured to the gill's would be my way of putting it. The focusing knob works as the diaptor also - a dual one. I'll try to post pictures soon if there's much attention. I was told they're on par with Meopta's Meostar (?) the Czechoslovakia makers... If anyone has these: (Docters) or anyone can give me more information, I'd be very curious on your thoughts. :t:

chartwell99 · Dec 20, 2010

optiman said:
If anyone has these: (Docters) or anyone can give me more information, I'd be very curious on your thoughts. :t:

Glad you're pleased, Optiman. My understanding is that this model updated the Zeiss Jena 10 x 40 Notarem when Docter took over the Zeiss Jena Eisfeld plant. The Notarems were designed to compete with the Zeiss West 10 x 40 Classic and were optically OK in their time but suffered from lack of phase coating and miserable build quality. Later models from Docter (I own the 10 x 42) are remarkably good binoculars.

mooreorless · Dec 20, 2010

So you came back to the Docter and ended up buying it. I was sort of watching that one to see if anybody bought it. I am glad you like it!! The eye cups seemed funny to me.

optiman · Dec 20, 2010

chartwell99 said:
Glad you're pleased, Optiman. My understanding is that this model updated the Zeiss Jena 10 x 40 Notarem when Docter took over the Zeiss Jena Eisfeld plant. The Notarems were designed to compete with the Zeiss West 10 x 40 Classic and were optically OK in their time but suffered from lack of phase coating and miserable build quality. Later models from Docter (I own the 10 x 42) are remarkably good binoculars.

Thanks chartwell99,
That's great information. I knew they we're competing with Zeiss West and this was never going to happen. Since Docter took over, their range was competitive and strong to a slow growing market of 'cheaper binoculars' for the layman i believe. I have the old Jena's 8x30's and they're good. Ok, they're NOT Zeiss, but, a very nice, cheap medium collectable porro.

optiman · Dec 20, 2010

mooreorless said:
So you came back to the Docter and ended up buying it. I was sort of watching that one to see if anybody bought it. I am glad you like it!! The eye cups seemed funny to me.

Hi Steve,
Yes, it was bugging me looking at them and had to buy. 'Curiosity killed the cat'.
I got 'em 'for a song'. The eye cups are funny. But, you know what....they sit in to your eye sockets like a snug glove in your hand.

mooreorless · Dec 21, 2010

Doesn't matter what they look like sometimes, just so they work ok. Yep good price for it I would say. You just have to take a chance sometimes.

optiman · Dec 21, 2010

mooreorless said:
Doesn't matter what they look like sometimes, just so they work ok. Yep good price for it I would say. You just have to take a chance sometimes.

I wouldn't call it: 'taking a chance' at this price Steve..as they really were: 'for nought' B

etudiant · Dec 22, 2010

Docter was afaik the first producer of aspheric lenses for consumer binoculars. They are a specialty optics house.
They sold a small 8x22 which was very favorably reviewed, as well as other aspheric lens models such as this one here..
However, Analytik Jena, which took over the binocular business from Docter, pretty much abandoned the use of aspherics in the current models, with only the old Nobilem porro designs together with some open bridge roofs still available under the Docter name.

chartwell99 · Dec 22, 2010

etudiant;2011317 However said:
The website still shows the BCF closed bridge models (8 x 42 and 10 x 42). The 10x (which I still own) is an especially nice wide field binocular. To my knowledge, none of the roof models, open or closed bridge, are made in Germany, and are actually presumably made somewhere (not specified) in Asia. That manufacturing outsourcing may account for the abandonment of the use of aspherics.

optiman · Dec 22, 2010

etudiant said:
Docter was afaik the first producer of aspheric lenses for consumer binoculars. They are a specialty optics house.
They sold a small 8x22 which was very favorably reviewed, as well as other aspheric lens models such as this one here..
However, Analytik Jena, which took over the binocular business from Docter, pretty much abandoned the use of aspherics in the current models, with only the old Nobilem porro designs together with some open bridge roofs still available under the Docter name.

Hi etudiant,
Very good. Nicely put. Your obviously 'educated' in Docter bins...is aspheric like an older version of ED/FL glass? I've no lens caps when i purchased these. The guy lost 'em. Pity as they're a sweet glass. Any suggestions as to where i can get covers..
Thanks.

optiman · Dec 22, 2010

chartwell99 said:
The website still shows the BCF closed bridge models (8 x 42 and 10 x 42). The 10x (which I still own) is an especially nice wide field binocular. To my knowledge, none of the roof models, open or closed bridge, are made in Germany, and are actually presumably made somewhere (not specified) in Asia. That manufacturing outsourcing may account for the abandonment of the use of aspherics.

Very good chartwell99.
So mine..(10x40B Aspheric) IS East German made i presume?

etudiant · Dec 22, 2010

Afaik, all the Docter aspherics were new designs and were only made in Germany.
Docter was a small industrial specialty shop, such as are often found in Germany, which had neither the marketing skills nor the resources needed to make o go of a high end consumer product. They took over the Zeiss Jena plant with some government help and did try to innovate their way to leadership with cast aspheric lenses, a technology Docter had pioneered.. They eventually ended their involvement, but their name carries on.
Your 10x42s are not derived from the old Zeiss Jena Notarem, but rather are part of Docter's initial new design.family. I believe the aspherics are only used in the eye pieces, probably to flatten the field and perhaps to reduce CA. They also had better eye relief than the corresponding conventional versions offered by Docter.
I've long been looking for one of their 8x22 aspherics, so far w/o success. The logo for them includes a stylized alpha, otherwise they are indistinguishable.

chartwell99 · Dec 22, 2010

optiman said:
Very good chartwell99.
So mine..(10x40B Aspheric) IS East German made i presume?

Yup.

Kevin Purcell · Dec 22, 2010

I believe the aspherics are only used in the eye pieces, probably to flatten the field and perhaps to reduce CA.

Aspherical lenses are used to flatten the field but they have no effect on CA (directly though a cunning designer minimzes CA across the whole design by choosing the right materials).

There is usually only one per barrel (that's all you need).

Most of the Japanese aspherical lenses take the route of bonding CR39 or similar plastic material to a glass lens and casting the CR39 in an aspherical mold. It's an inexpensive process and the CR39 has a pretty good Abbe number.

The Docter 10x40B is post-1989 German reunification.

Holger has one (as his own bin) and seems to like it.

http://www.holgermerlitz.de/docter_leaflets/docter.html
http://www.holgermerlitz.de/dialyt10x40.html

chartwell99 · Dec 23, 2010

Kevin Purcell said:
The Docter 10x40B is post-1989 German reunification.

Holger has one (as his own bin) and seems to like it.

Holger is right about the 10 x 42 BCF being a special binocular and I could resist sharing his observation:

The Docter B/CF is a real high tech machine. I was unable to detect any significant weakness in this binocular. It is not only well constructed, but comes with a pretty wide angle of view and a compact body. The coating seems to be of highest quality, and the image is bright and of high contrast. Image sharpness close to the edge is poor, but this is tolerable in a wide angle glass. Despite of the 'B' feature, spectacle wearer may have some trouble to see the entire field with glasses on.

optiman · Dec 23, 2010

Kevin Purcell said:
Aspherical lenses are used to flatten the field but they have no effect on CA (directly though a cunning designer minimzes CA across the whole design by choosing the right materials).

There is usually only one per barrel (that's all you need).

Most of the Japanese aspherical lenses take the route of bonding CR39 or similar plastic material to a glass lens and casting the CR39 in an aspherical mold. It's an inexpensive process and the CR39 has a pretty good Abbe number.

The Docter 10x40B is post-1989 German reunification.

Holger has one (as his own bin) and seems to like it.

http://www.holgermerlitz.de/docter_leaflets/docter.html
http://www.holgermerlitz.de/dialyt10x40.html

Thanks guys with all your comments! Very interesting and analytical. Thanks also for the link. :t:

optiman · Dec 23, 2010

chartwell99 said:
Kevin Purcell said:

The Docter 10x40B is post-1989 German reunification.

Holger has one (as his own bin) and seems to like it.

Holger is right about the 10 x 42 BCF being a special binocular and I could resist sharing his observation:

The Docter B/CF is a real high tech machine. I was unable to detect any significant weakness in this binocular. It is not only well constructed, but comes with a pretty wide angle of view and a compact body. The coating seems to be of highest quality, and the image is bright and of high contrast. Image sharpness close to the edge is poor, but this is tolerable in a wide angle glass. Despite of the 'B' feature, spectacle wearer may have some trouble to see the entire field with glasses on.

Click to expand...

So, in a nutshell: The 10x42 BCF is much better constructed - optically?... by far... or, is my 10x40B's on a par with them? Is it like a Zeiss Conquest compared to a Zeiss FL...?? (i know my comparison is a bit construed)

etudiant · Dec 23, 2010

Thank you Kevin and Chartwell99 for your helpful and informative input. It's always a nicety of BF, there are contributors who really know whereof they speak, so one can learn something new.
In light of their new inputs, it looks like Optiman's 10x40B is the revised version of the Zeiss Jena Notarem, improved by Docter with aspheric eyepiece lenses, weather sealing and rubber armor. It was made at the Eisfeld plant that produced most of the Zeiss Jena binoculars.
I do not know where or from whose components the newer 10x42BCF was built. Analytik Jena did sell several binocular models that were either fully or partly foreign sourced, but the Docter brand glasses may have not been among those.

chartwell99 · Dec 23, 2010

optiman said:
chartwell99 said:

So, in a nutshell: The 10x42 BCF is much better constructed - optically?... by far... or, is my 10x40B's on a par with them? Is it like a Zeiss Conquest compared to a Zeiss FL...?? (i know my comparison is a bit construed)

Click to expand...

The chief problem with the Zeiss Jena Notarem glasses is the dual axis focus and diopter mechanism. When haphazardly made (as was the regrettable case for the Zeiss Jena Eisfeld operation), one telescope barrel has a tendency to disengage from the focusing mechanism for no apparent reason. Presumably (and hopefully) your Docter-made binocular willl not be afflicted. The later Docter 10 x 42 BCF also puts the diopter adjustment under the focusing knob (similar to the late model Bausch & Lomb Discoverer roofs) but the mechanism is different and appears much more robust. The later model is also phase coated with more modern coatings and much better optics.

Interestingly, the armor on your Docter is not rubber but rather a high tech elastomer, which is probably the reason for the unusual eyecups.

optiman · Dec 23, 2010

chartwell99 said:
optiman said:

The chief problem with the Zeiss Jena Notarem glasses is the dual axis focus and diopter mechanism. When haphazardly made (as was the regrettable case for the Zeiss Jena Eisfeld operation), one telescope barrel has a tendency to disengage from the focusing mechanism for no apparent reason. Presumably (and hopefully) your Docter-made binocular willl not be afflicted. The later Docter 10 x 42 BCF also puts the diopter adjustment under the focusing knob (similar to the late model Bausch & Lomb Discoverer roofs) but the mechanism is different and appears much more robust. The later model is also phase coated with more modern coatings and much better optics.

Interestingly, the armor on your Docter is not rubber but rather a high tech elastomer, which is probably the reason for the unusual eyecups.

Click to expand...

Hi chartwell99,
well, that puts that to bed: mine are inferior optically to the newer 10x42 BCF's...I really believed they were optically as good, alas not so. I still 'feel' they're very good, sharp and minute CA - through my eyes anyway. I really put 'em to the test today in very low light. They really were pin sharp, great natural colour rendition. The dual axis dioptor focusing knob does take some time to get used to. Can mine be possibly compared to an 'alpha' out there?

Received My Docter 10x40b Aspheric's Today (1 Viewer)

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