Anyone know about WERRA? (are they Zeiss?) (1 Viewer)

Hi,

I like to search out and collect buy/sell vintage Porro's and recently bought a Leitz Binuxit to restore, at the same time I noticed an absolutely mint condition 8X30 made by WERRA, it has Germany on it as well. I had no idea about it but it was not much money, so I just bought it. I have tried to find out a bit about it, and it seems to be rumored to have been made by Zeiss at a factory near the river WERRA wherever that is. I am doubtful of this as the optical quality is nowhere near as good as a Jenoptem, and although similar in appearance, the objective beauty rings are sort of squared off rather than beveled. Be grateful if anyone has any info on these?

Speaking of Jenoptems, I have 2 pairs, both genuine, 8x30, both made in the 80s, both mint, clean inside, no fog,fungus or dust, both aligned ok (checked) but one of them is definitely sharper than the other when viewing. You would be happy with either if you did not know, but knowing is puzzling and irritating, but expect one will be going on ebay soon, wonder which??.

Werra are well-known cameras with an unorthodox method of winding the shutter as far as I remember.
You turn the front lens and I think it snaps back, also the lens hood goes back to front on the front.
They are think East German but I will find out more about them.
But look at these cameras first because I'm pretty sure that the binoculars will come from the same factory.

The cameras are typically green in colour although I think also black and chrome.
I have a couple of these somewhere and they were not expensive.
From memory they were medium or low price cameras new and I think there are still a lot of them around although I have not met the binoculars.

I cannot remember if they are interchangeable lenses or not perhaps from the 1960s?

reading a bit about the cameras it says they are from the 1950s and as I thought interchangeable lenses with perhaps three lenses in total.
Apparently quite a lot of them still work I think mine do.
They really are most unusual.
it says there are six models.

It says they were made in an old Zeiss Jena factory but I will have to find out if they are or were actually part of Zeiss which had a very complex history.

The binoculars will probably be quite good.
I would think 1950s or 1960s.

Bencw,
Werra was a camera brand made by Carl Zeiss Jena and different models were made from 1954 until the 1960-s. There were also models with interchangeable lenses. Although I have never seen one, it may be possible that the name Werra is also used for a binocular of the same company and it may well be that you have one.
Gijs

Many thanks Binastro and Gijs,

Seems encouraging that there may be a link to Zeiss Jenna, I will see what I can find from researching the camera maker.

Ben

Progress, may thanks.

Binastro said:

reading a bit about the cameras it says they are from the 1950s and as I thought interchangeable lenses with perhaps three lenses in total.
Apparently quite a lot of them still work I think mine do.
They really are most unusual.
it says there are six models.

It says they were made in an old Zeiss Jena factory but I will have to find out if they are or were actually part of Zeiss which had a very complex history.

The binoculars will probably be quite good.
I would think 1950s or 1960s.

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Hi,

Thanks, I have had another look at these glasses today and they are indeed a bit better than my first impression. Also, looking down the objective end, they have the same ribbed tunnel that you see in the Jenoptem. I pursued the camera angle and eventually found this link:

http://www.docter-germany.de/en/about-us/history.html

If interested, this is an excerpt from what they say: "With the end of World War two many leading employees left the Jena plant, and large parts of it were dismantled. With the new start in the years after the war the range of products was severely "cleansed" and a concentration on the proven binoculars models 7x50, 10x50 and 8x30, the combined production of which totaled up to 200,000 units per annum, followed. In 1952 a part of the company VEB Carl Zeiss Jena was established in Eisfeld. (Which is evidently near the river WERRA)
The strengthening of the production capacity for binoculars and analytical instruments in the 80s led to the development of new generations of opto-electronic instruments and the extension of the range of binoculars and riflescopes by new developments.
At the same time, the position of being the biggest manufacturer of binoculars in Europe could be consolidated. Approximately 1,100 employees worked at Eisfeld and about 300,000 binoculars and riflescopes were produced per annum."

. The situation after World War II in East Germany was that Russia took over.
There was a legal battle about the name Zeiss.

It was forbidden for this name to be used for products from East Germany.
However, the standard lens for the WERRA was an East German Tessar.

I have seen many of these cameras and handled many. I might even have seen a blue coloured one I can't remember. But they are decidedly odd.
It may be that many were imported into the UK because they were restrictions on expensive cameras and may be these came under the price limit so they could be imported. I'm not sure if I've ever seen the long and short focus lenses.

You will find East German camera lenses such as those for the Pentacon six have names on the front. But sometimes if you remove the bezel you will find Zeiss underneath.

Often the lenses were marked AUS JENA as they could not be marked Zeiss.

The Zeiss conglomeration consisted of very large numbers of factories and it is difficult to know what was what.

There were also shenanigans regarding the Zeiss name.

It may be that the Werra binoculars were marked thus because they could not be marked Zeiss binoculars.
Or they might actually not be strictly connected to Zeiss.

Personally, I don't think they have the Zeiss binocular flavour but I could be wrong.
But whatever they are they might be quite good.

After World War II the Russians confiscated large amounts of Zeiss machinery and took it to Russia or the Ukraine and just carried on making lenses and binoculars identical to the old Zeiss binoculars and lenses.
They also took with them many Zeiss engineers.

It would not surprise me if this original machinery is still being used. At least it was used for decades.

Binastro said:

.

After World War II the Russians confiscated large amounts of Zeiss machinery and took it to Russia or the Ukraine and just carried on making lenses and binoculars identical to the old Zeiss binoculars and lenses.
They also took with them many Zeiss engineers.

It would not surprise me if this original machinery is still being used. At least it was used for decades.

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Interesting what you say about the Russians, I recently acquired a pair of Russian 8x30 soviet era binoculars and I am amazed at how good they are. They compare well against the Zeiss Jenoptem, I would say as sharp and clear, the main difference is the Russian bins have a very slight yellow tint, more noticeable in low light, and they are a bit more chunkily built. The other thing, and maybe it is just on this pair, is that under the objective beauty rings they were packed solid with thick grease in around the objective lens edge, there was loads of it. Not sure if they might have been a military binocular, that might be some kind of crude waterproofing perhaps? Anyway, considering that you can pick a pretty good used pair of these up at around £30 I would say they are great value for money.

. The Soviet and Russian 8 x 30 is usually a great binocular.
The export versions and military versions probably have better quality control.
Apparently a Russian jeep can drive over them and not cause damage.
The eyepiece is excellent as an Astro eyepiece and can be turned down to fit the old 24.5 mm 0.965 inch I think eyepiece barrels.
This was my favourite eyepiece on my 150 mm Maksutov F10 telescope.

The grease is indeed I think a good form of waterproofing that actually works quite well.
I'm not sure if the eyepieces also have this.

These binoculars used to retail at about £14.
I think they're still being sold but much more expensively since the Soviet breakup when prices had to become more commercial and relating to cost of production.

Sometimes the coatings have different colours but it doesn't make any difference to the view.

I also like the 12×45 which shares the same backend.

Some people have used the 8×30 binocular for decades and still love it.

Of course to birdwatchers modern coatings and modern glass preferred, but these are handmade binoculars built to last even though they are basic.

Some of them have eyepiece reticules for measurement.

They are now also available in a variety of body finishes and even bizarrely a ruby coated version which I very much doubt would have seen the light of day in Soviet times.

They are also available as monoculars.

Large numbers were made and I would think the majority of them are still around.

Russian and Polish binoculars typically have a yellow cast to the view.

Here's a link to an article in Shutterbug magazine concerning Werra cameras....

http://www.shutterbug.com/content/werra-east-german-wonder

peatmoss said:

Here's a link to an article in Shutterbug magazine concerning Werra cameras....

http://www.shutterbug.com/content/werra-east-german-wonder

Click to expand...

Thanks Peatmoss, interesting article.

Binastro said:

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The grease is indeed I think a good form of waterproofing that actually works quite well.
I'm not sure if the eyepieces also have this.

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Thanks for info Binastro, on the pair I have, there was no extra grease around the eyepieces, I had to remove the diopter side as it was quite stiff, but it was easy to take off, free it, clean up, re- grease and replace, just took a few minutes and now works very smoothly. I am going to load some photos on flkr so will post a link under vintage bins when I have done so.

. The date is usually indicated by the first 2 numerals of the serial number.

Some are marked multicoated and some have something like -40°C to +40°C on them. I cannot remember the full range.

As with many Soviet and Russian binoculars they can be quite loose say with the focusing wheel but this does usually ensure that they work at -40°.

Also as with many Soviet and Russian binoculars and cameras the tolerances are rather approximate.
I damaged a valuable Japanese lens made for the Nikon rangefinder camera by just putting it on a Kiev 4 contax copy range Finder camera.
In fact all three cameras I think have slightly different registers and slightly different bayonet mounts.
The Japanese lens was brand-new but I damaged the chrome by putting it on the Kiev.
A shame but anyway I took one roll of film and the results were interesting with a 50 mm F1 .1 lens.
Soft but it worked.

The Werra cameras are quite common in the UK often green and from memory some other colours. They often still work. I found one recently in the charity shop for a few pounds and they are readily available at camera fairs.

Werra binocular

It might be of interest that I have just purchased, for £10 from a charity shop in Hove, a binocular marked "WERRA 8X30". It is identical to a Jenoptem made by Carl Zeiss Jena except that the rings round the objectives have hard edges. I would say that there is no doubt in my mind that it comes from the same source as a Jenoptem or other C.Z.J. 8X30. I remember very well a range of cameras called "Werra" made by C.Z.J. in the 1950s/60s but I have never come across binoculars with this name. Can anybody give any information? Two further facts about this binocular: there is no visible serial no. and the country of manufacture is given as "Germany", normally C.Z.J. binoculars are marked "DDR". The optics are coated and it performs similarly to a Jenoptem, in other words more than half decent.

Information welcomed!

Hi,

not a lot of info available, but it seems that after CZJ started the Werra camera brand in the 50s, they later sold cheaper versions of some of their binoculars under that label too...

http://binopedia.info/index.php?topic=1102.0

Could you post images maybe? What is the serial number, does it match the CZJ scheme?

Joachim

Hello,

The Werra 35mm camera's have somewhat of a cult status amongst the old film camera users today.

They were apparently well made instruments.

The binoculars are probably well made as well.

Cheers.

A current eBay listing by gregoryonline has an advertisement from The Field from April 1970 which shows the Carl Zeiss Jena 8x30 Werra
As indicated by John in post #14, it appears to be a rebadged Jenoptem, see the attached image from: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/184177082534

Ben W has a photo and details of an 8x30 Werra on his Flickr stream, see the image from: https://www.flickr.com/photos/95019762@N07/9321262269

And Worthpoint (a listing of eBay sales) has images of an 8x30 Werra #3,680,572 which the seller dates to 1969,
see an image from: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/carl-zeiss-jena-8x30-werra-binoculars-163900007


John

Hello,

It seems that CZJ did not disown the Werra binoculars. The binoculars may or may not have been an economy line. Is the FOV shown in the ad similar to the CZJ 8x30? I would suggest that the Werra cameras had enough success that CZJ decided that dealers carrying the cameras would be happy to sell binoculars with the same name. Something the Japanese camera manufacturers, like Pentax and Minolta, are doing.

Stay safe,
Arthur :hi:

Bencw said:

Thanks Peatmoss, interesting article.

Click to expand...

Written by the inimitable Roger Hicks, sadly died last year - a keen Leica user.

Bencw said:

Hi,

I have tried to find out a bit about it, and it seems to be rumored to have been made by Zeiss at a factory near the river WERRA wherever that is.

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About the River Werra rather than the glass: the river valley of the Werra formed for a stretch the boundary between the west German state (Bundesland) of Hesse and the east German district (Bezirk) of Erfurt, which after reunification reverted to its old status as the state of Thuringia (Thüringen). Boundary of course meant in Cold War times the Inner German Border (Deutsch-deutsche Grenze), more usually called the Iron Curtain.

The Werra has some interesting end of Second World War history. Though the post-war borders inside Germany were drawn up before the war was over, there was some subsequent reshuffling done to mutual advantage by the Soviets and US forces. By the so-called Wanfried Agreement (Wanfrieder Abkommen) the Americans negotiated some boundary changes/land swapping so that they could maintain control of the railway line without it passing through the Soviet zone; in return the Soviets and east Germans would be able to use the Werra as a natural barrier to strengthen their border controls. As the generals who concluded the agreement congratulated each other and celebrated their agreement with an exhange of their national drinks the redrawn zone border along the Werra was often called the 'Whiskey-Vodka-Line'. Villagers who had thought they would be in the west found themselves in the Soviet zone and being so close to the boundary would thereafter be in a Restricted Zone (Sperrgebiet) i.e. subject to even tighter restrictions than those further inland. This was because the approx. 3 mile strip immediately inside the eastern side of the frontier was closely monitored by police and informants to deter escape, a crime known as Republikflucht. Use of lethal force was authorized in the area called the death strip (Todesstreifen) just yards before the last of the border fences. In one very sad case a man who jumped over the final fence from the shelter of a raised JCB-type mechanical digger bucket - to avoid triggering the shrapnel guns in the wire itself - was shot in the open area beyond at a range of a few hundred yards as he ran up the hill to get to the actual political boundary, marked by boundary stones and tri-colour stone posts at the top of the valley slope. The western German police and customs officials who witnessed the scene in front of them from their side of the boundary stones were not allowed to leave their territory and go to rescue the now gravely wounded man, who bled to death yards from the boundary in front of their eyes. Intervention was strictly forbidden outside their own territory for fear of their being shot also, and to prevent an international incident.

(From the perspective of nature lovers a good thing that resulted from the existence of the Iron Curtain was that a deep swathe of countryside from the Baltic to the Adriatic was a largely undisturbed environment for birds and wildlife.)

Moderators: a major detour from binoculars; hope it's allowed as adding some history and colour to the idea of Werra!