A tick or not a tick, that is the question? (1 Viewer)

I've had several discussions with fellow birders recently on this subject, so thought I'd get some general opinions.

Just wondered what are your views on birds trapped and ringed? Would you actually count them on your own personal BOU list?

Personally, I see no problem doing so and have had lots of conversations arguing the case for counting any trapped and ringed birds on a Life List.

A prime example of this was the Western Orphean Warbler at Hartlepool which I was lucky enough to catch up with and where hundreds of twitchers made the trip. I've since had some people say "it's not natural" or it's a "given bird" but the bird was only trapped and ringed in the area it was found and then released back into the same area again.

A lot of ringers around the country, especially with a rare or scarce bird give a time for release to enable birders to tick a new species. This indeed happened at Spurn once with a Wryneck for me which I dashed over from the seawatching hide to see.

Some countries I think, have a 24 hour rule where birds cannot be "ticked" if seen within this time if previously trapped and released although I can't remember off the top of my head, which country/countries this applies to.

Another area of debate is "possible ship assisted" birds like the White-tailed Plover at Seaforth or the Spanish Sparrow at Calshot, Hampshire?

Again, I don't see a problem, particually the Spanish Sparrow as it was resident in the area for over 2 years and even hooked up with the local female House Sparrows to produce hybrid offspring.

Anyway, I have counted all of the above species on my own BOU list and am happy with doing so, but would welcome any opinions to continue the debate that I have had many times.

Over to you!!!!

Trapped or ringed? No (except, perhaps, after a very decent interval).
Ship-assisted? Yes (unless actually brought off the ship in a cage)

Phil Owen said:

Just wondered what are your views on birds trapped and ringed? Would you actually count them on your own personal BOU list?

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As an example, here are the relevant clauses from the ABA Recording Rules, which seem to be a reasonable compromise...

RULE 3:The bird must have been alive, wild, and unrestrained when encountered.
...
C. "Unrestrained" means not held captive in a cage, trap, mistnet, hand, or by any other means and not under the influence of such captivity. A bird is considered under the influence of captivity after its release until it regains the activities and movements of a bird which has not been captured.
(i) A bird is under the influence of captivity during its initial flight away from its release point and during subsequent activity reasonably influenced by the captivity, such as initial perching and preening or early sleeping or roosting near the release point.
(ii) A nocturnal species released during daylight which goes to roost near the point of release is considered under the influence of captivity until the next nightfall, when it has left its roost and begun normal nocturnal activities.
(iii) A wild bird that is injured, sick, oiled, or otherwise incapacitated, but which retains a reasonable freedom of movement, may be counted.
(iv) Banders working on licenced projects under proper permits may count, for their personal lists, the birds that they band, without the restrictions described in (i) and (ii).

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Phil Owen said:

Another area of debate is "possible ship assisted" birds like the White-tailed Plover at Seaforth or the Spanish Sparrow at Calshot, Hampshire?
Again, I don't see a problem, particually the Spanish Sparrow as it was resident in the area for over 2 years and even hooked up with the local female House Sparrows to produce hybrid offspring.
Anyway, I have counted all of the above species on my own BOU list and am happy with doing so, but would welcome any opinions to continue the debate that I have had many times.

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But would you count an obviously ship-assisted species that's not on the British List on your own 'BOU list'?

You also seem to suggest that a long survival increases the tick-worthiness of possibly ship-assisted arrivals, which seems curious logic.

Richard Klim said:

As an example, here are the relevant clauses from the ABA Recording Rules, which seem to be a reasonable compromise...


But would you count an obviously ship-assisted species that's not on the British List on your own 'BOU list'?

You also seem to suggest that a long survival increases the tick-worthiness of possibly ship-assisted arrivals, which seems curious logic.

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It's not "obviously" a ship-assisted species unless there is actual proof that the bird was seen to be ship-assisted, although I do agree, the likelihood of it being a genuine vagrant is very much debatable.

Spanish Sparrow is on the list of accepted species for the UK though.

Interesting to read the rules regarding trapped and released birds. Does the Western Orphean Warbler count as a tickable bird or not then?

fugl said:

Trapped or ringed? No (except, perhaps, after a very decent interval).
Ship-assisted? Yes (unless actually brought off the ship in a cage)

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I'd be more inclined to say the exact opposite or tick either but each to their own,tick what you want on your own list.

Adam W said:

I'd be more inclined to say the exact opposite or tick either but each to their own,tick what you want on your own list.

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I believe most people would agree with you, but each to his own as you say. Personally, I find the idea of ticking birds just out of the ringer's net boring & unsporting.

From what I've gathered, fewer people have a problem with ticking birds in the hand in the UK than in the USA/Canada. I certainly don't have a problem with it.

Then again, many people across the pond tick on call more which is far less common in the UK. But that is of course a huge generalisation and a different topic!

More people have a problem with ticking birds in hand within the US because of said ABA rules, which I think MOST birders at least roughly follow the guidelines for, even if they don't keep an active ABA list.

As for what I would do:

Ringed Bird: Would probably count it on my lifelist, but if it was in the US or Canada, not on my ABA list. This is mostly for consistency sake...I keep herp and mammal lists and you are more likely to have people who WON'T count a herp if they have not seen it in hand. Similarly, for mammals, live-trapping is often the only way to get at small mammals, at least ID'able looks. Thankfully I have never seen anything that was remotely rare or a potential lifer at a ringing station, so this rule hasn't been a problem.

Ship-assisted: Probably would count. There really isn't much difference between a bird which uses a raft of vegetation to rest on while at sea and a bird that lands on a ship. Besides, often there is a huge amount of uncertainty that goes into whether a bird was ship-assisted or not.

White-tailed Plover at Seaforth ship assisted?

Jan-Paul Charteris said:

White-tailed Plover at Seaforth ship assisted?

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Not really as it was seen at Dunge, in Holland, at Rainham and in holland again... (or something like that...)

Hotspur said:

Not really as it was seen at Dunge, in Holland, at Rainham and in holland again... (or something like that...)

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I know it was aimed at the statement that it was, in the OP's first post!