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Help with ID of Greenish and Arctic Warbler (2 Viewers)

Zac Hinchcliffe

Time spent wishing is time wasted!
Hello
can anyone help me with the seperation of Greenish warbler (Phylloscopus trochiloides) and Arctic Warbler (Phylloscopus borealis)?
I'm sure there are very distinguishable features to them both, but currently I am not able to see what exactly, although I am getting to grips with the two from photo's.

thanks very much

Zac Hinchcliffe ((15)Lancs)
 
If you get one in the field, start with wing length - Arctic pushes Wood Warbler and Greenish looks more like a Chiffchaff. Next check out the wing bars - length and number. Then look for the whether the super bridges over the bill or not - it does on a Greenish and how strong the eye stipe in fornt of the eye is (stronger on Arctic). Then look at the ear coverts - how blotchy are they. Call is a big give away - Robin like tick for Arctic and an almost finch-like chee-wee in Greenish.

There are more features - I'll illustrate them when I get a chance
 
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Thanks very much.
I was unnaware of the calls, having very seen either, but this is very helpful.
Am I right in thinking the super of the Arctic is more bright and bold?

thanks

Zac
 
A couple more points to add to Jane's

Jizz is a good pointer: Arctic is large and clumsy, while Greenish (at least plumbeitarsus in Hong Kong) is smaller and neater in its movements.

Arctic also has a dark spot at the tip of the lower mandible, while the bill on Greenish is all yellow.

Also please remember that Greenish can show 1, 2 or 0 wingbars!

If you want to really get your head turning with phylloscs check out the postings from my patch Ng Tung Chai from last autumn and winter - a huge range which gave a chance to assess the variability within a species as well separating one species from another.

At this time of year Arctic, Pale-legged/Sakhalin and Eastern Crowned start to come through, with Greenish in a couple of weeks. As Yellow-browed, Pallas' Blyth's Leaf, Hartert's, Sulphur-bellied Radde's and Dusky also occur (and I suspect but cannot yet prove Emei Leaf or White-tailed Leaf)- its a great place to get to grips with a really tough group.

Cheers
Mike
 
At this time of year Arctic, Pale-legged/Sakhalin and Eastern Crowned start to come through, with Greenish in a couple of weeks. As Yellow-browed, Pallas' Blyth's Leaf, Hartert's, Sulphur-bellied Radde's and Dusky also occur (and I suspect but cannot yet prove Emei Leaf or White-tailed Leaf)- its a great place to get to grips with a really tough group.

Cheers
Mike

There are a few in that list that I'll gladly be confounded by on my patch in the next few weeks. ;)

Send 'em over!

ce
 
- Robin like tick for Arctic

Its more like a Dipper; I strung one on the 8th of this month but got corrected on the 17th when I found an Arctic calling from a bush near the same river at the same spot.
I was warned about this posibility; so Arctic Warbler does not need a lot of forest for a breedingplace.
 
Zac Hinchcliffe; said:
Thanks very much.
I was unnaware of the calls, having very seen either, but this is very helpful.
Am I right in thinking the super of the Arctic is more bright and bold?

thanks

Zac

Arctic's super looks really long, and sometimes quite narrow. It often has a way of curving upwards at the rear end.
 
Thanks for the feedback
This Autumn hopefully will have the potential for seeing both of favoured site in E.Yorkshire like Filey, Spurn and Flamborough, I think it is possible to say that Phylloscopus warblers are my favourite bird family, except maybe Gulls! so it would be nice to ID them confidently!

thanks again

Zac
 
Arctic Warbler Vs Eastern Crowned

I am trying to resurrect this thread to see if someone (either on this thread or otherwise) can help me.

I am just back from a trip to Japan which was a family holiday with limited opportunity to sneak away for birdwatching.

I got a large phylloscopus on Miyajima island which was quite vocal and, despite not being able to see a crown stripe, I concluded it was Eastern Crowned based on my pathetic recording of the sounds plus my observations of the bird.

Since coming back I have become unsure again and am starting to think Arctic may have been possible - based mostly on images rather than sounds.

Is there anyone out there that might want to take a listen to my recording and set my mind at rest?

PS Eastern Crowned is a species I have seen and positively ID'd before in Korea and I still lean towards this as my ID
 
Eastern Crowned, as Mark Brazil's 'Birds of East Asia' says, has a distinctive song which it sings at this time of the year:

pichew pichew bwee
aka
chiyo chiyo chiyo biii

the first two/three phrases are short while the last is drawn out ('nasal' Brazil says) - chew chew BUWIIII is how I would transcribe it

Arctic don't sing on passage where I am - or I've never heard them - but they make a dzit dzit sound.

By the way, Arctic has been split into three species, and the one that has retained he name 'Arctic' is the one you are least likely (by a long way) to see or hear in Japan. The ones you will hear are Kamchatka Leaf and Japanese Leaf. Kamchatka Leaf has the dzit dzit sound and seems to be more commonly seen and heard on passage than Japanese Leaf (though since they are essentialy not visually distinguishable it's not so easy to say; it may be that Japanese Leaf doesn't vocalise so much - but all the recordings I've made here in my patch in central Japan have been Kamchatka Leaf).

You could do a web search for Xeno-Canto and listen to the recordings there and see if they match your bird.

HTH
 
Arctic don't sing on passage where I am - or I've never heard them - but they make a dzit dzit sound.

That's interesting. Arctic is a very common singer on passage here in Hong Kong. But ours are (mostly?) Arctic, so maybe that's a difference from Japanese/Kamchatka. They don't seem to be coming through yet this spring - I haven't heard any reports so far in HK, they're quite a late migrant.

I don't think I've ever heard Eastern Crowned in HK, either calling or singing. They're usually silent here, but presumably more vocal when they get closer to breeding grounds.
 
Thanks to all.

Have been on Xeno-canto.

Definitely Eastern-Crowned Warbler.

And I dont need to embarass myself putting up my sound clip :)

D
 
Thanks to all. Have been on Xeno-canto. Definitely Eastern-Crowned Warbler.

I'm glad you sorted that out. It can be really frustrating when you are almost sure, but not quite.

Did the deer on Miyajima (assuming it was the Miyajima near Hiroshima) steal your ice cream? Some years ago, my twelve-year-old god-daughter burst into tears when it happened to her after she had tried petting the deer. A lesson in life, I had thought. But now she's about to qualify as a solicitor (lawyer), so she'll be stealing people's ice cream herself soon.
 
Kamchatka!

That's interesting. Arctic is a very common singer on passage here in Hong Kong. But ours are (mostly?) Arctic, so maybe that's a difference from Japanese/Kamchatka. They don't seem to be coming through yet this spring - I haven't heard any reports so far in HK, they're quite a late migrant.

I don't think I've ever heard Eastern Crowned in HK, either calling or singing. They're usually silent here, but presumably more vocal when they get closer to breeding grounds.

Hi John.

Well, I don't go around the country chasing birds as some do, but I go to my local little patch often (and other local spots, and occasionally a bit further away) and walk through the little wood where the guys with the 800mm lenses don't go mostly. On this patch (about 2km walk around a couple of ponds and some light woodland in the middle of our city - Nara, Japan's first capital, and much more fun than Kyoto) I have seen 125 species in ten years, ten or so only once of course, and still new species come. This year (2017) we have had Garganey and White's Thrush as new additions to the list.

Today I found Blue-and-White Flycatcher (only the second time for me in this spot). We get a few 'Arctic' every spring and autumn - none so far this year. After I realised that the split was serious, I started trying to record the voices with a voice recorder a couple of years ago. Of ten or so recordings, all were Kamchatka.

Last year, there were (Arctic spp I think) birds in late August and early September, which I think would not be Kamchatka (probably Japanese Leaf), since Kamchatka come through around mid-October. But these early birds didn't make a sound, so who knows?

KAMCHATKA

Completely off-topic, but speaking of Kamchatka: a few months ago my wife and I made plans for a really exciting Golden Week Holiday. There's a ferry from Tottori in Japan to a port on the east of South Korea and then to Vladivostok in Russia (well, yes, Kamchatka is a long way north of there, but it's still Russia). So we can do some pelagic viewing on this ferry. Then from Vladivostok we would fly to Irkutsk on Lake Baikal, and after three nights there, fly to Seoul in South Korea for a couple of nights and then back to Japan.

After we had booked this, the South Koreans impeached their president. The election will be on the 9th May and we'll be in Seoul on the 6th and 7th. The South Koreans can get 'enthusiatic' about politics, so we were worried about possible violent riots in Seoul at that time.

And now of course the main worry is that our ferry will sail right past the North Korean missile testing ground at Sinpo and one of the nuclear test sites at Punggye-ri on its way to Vladivostok.

Well, I guess we'll hope that the ferry company won't go if they think there is a great danger - but on the other hand South Korea doesn't have a proper government at the moment, and anyway any strike would not be announced. We're really considering whether to just throw the tickets away and lose the money, or whether to go anyway and hope for the best.
 
Just for clarification on this frighteningly common error - it's an Eastern Crowned Warbler (a crowned warbler from the east), not an Eastern-crowned Warbler (a warbler with a crown on the east side of its head) ;)

Thanks - will remember that.

Though I think it would depend what way it was facing?
 
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