• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Collimation adjustments & flare questions on Habichts 8x30 (1 Viewer)

L

lume

New member
Hi,

I'd like to ask a couple of questions about the porro Habichts 8x30..

1. It has the most sophisticated coating and optical system.. but I can't understand why they don't fix the veiling glare by adding baffles. Anyone can explain why once and for all?? I spent the whole night reading about this in the net and forum archives but can't find the real reason why.

2. There seems to be no substitute. I want utmost contrast for birding. I'd order it from Europe and it would be shipped back and forth to different places with very possibility of it being tossed around.. has anyone ever encountered a 8x30 out of collimation? Or is the housing and prism so fixed that it can't be knocked out of collimation? How many G's before it can happen? Supposed I couldn't send it back for repair.. can I re collimate it myself?
 
I don't know if they have the most sophisticated optical system. The ocular design and its ease of view don't look very modern...

There is a US Swaro dealer on the forum that had (has?) a 8x30 in stock. His username is Proudpapa.
 
Image quality is just one (very important) factor in the total equation of viewing pleasure. If eye-relief and eyecup design don't match your face and eyes, you won't enjoy the bins no matter how good the image is optically. If they don't fit your hands of the focus is too stiff, slow or fast for your likings the bins will not satisfy.

There are bins that have a crisper image than my E2. But there is no bin that I can hold as steady or as effortlessly. So I get to see more detail most of the times and can enjoy the view longer than with other bins. Others will have similar experiences with other bins.

You have the great opportunity to try the E2 at your leisure. Imagewise there are few bins that are better. And as a whole package I find them a joy to use. Of course YMMV, but just give them a good try and see how they work for you, as a total package.

George
 
Last edited:
lume said:
I heard no roof alpha even made by Swarovski can beat the Habicht 8x30. The Habicht may be the ultimate in binocular image quality.. but I can't understand why they don't want to fix the infamous glare/flare problem.

Is there other porro can even come close to it? I don't want the glare. What substitute can one have that is not roof?

I read that all roofs even alpha can't show 3D on close subjects like trees or birds.
Click to expand...

Zeiss HT, which uses Abbe-Konig prisms, has objective lenses that are offset from the eyepieces and thus give the 3D effect. And they are good with glare.

Lee
 
Hi,

I'd like to ask a couple of questions about the porro Habichts 8x30..

1. It has the most sophisticated coating and optical system.. but I can't understand why they don't fix the veiling glare by adding baffles. Anyone can explain why once and for all?? I spent the whole night reading about this in the net and forum archives but can't find the real reason why.
Click to expand...
The answer to your question can only come from Swarovski. However I suspect that Swarovski and most individual owners of the long produced 8x30 do not find veiling glare to be a problem. There may be one or two bloggers that have blown the issue out of proportion. How could that expensive bin have been so successful for so long with a problem of that severity?


There seems to be no substitute. I want utmost contrast for birding.
Click to expand...
If you believe the 8x30's to have a serious veiling glare problem then there are obvious substitutes. There are certainly other bins that should perform well. The Nikon 8x30 EII for example. Or Zeiss I believe has 2 8x32 models.

I'd order it from Europe and it would be shipped back and forth to different places with very possibility of it being tossed around.. has anyone ever encountered a 8x30 out of collimation? Or is the housing and prism so fixed that it can't be knocked out of collimation? How many G's before it can happen? Supposed I couldn't send it back for repair.. can I re collimate it myself?
Click to expand...
Any binocular can be knocked out of collimation from the shock of suddenly coming to a stop against something hard. I would not attempt a home alignment unless I had the tools and training. Most good sellers should pack your bins well.
However, you should look into the customs duty for importing binoculars. It could be considerable.
 
Last edited:
As far as glare, I find the 8x30 EII exceptionally good.
Looking into street lights very faint detail is seen with almost no ghosting at all.
I find that most Porros with short barrels are subject to ghosting. Why the EII isn't I don't know. Multicoating is only part of it. It must be very careful design.

The views of Earthshine on a several day old Moon was exceptionally good.
Earthshine tests really bring out image quality.

G shock tests are only partly reliable. It depends on how the impact hits.
Some equipment have G meters and if the value is exceeded, the equipment is rejected.
 
Yes, we try to keep the Habicht 8x30 in stock but I may not be much help. As per written agreements with Swarovski, dealers aren't supposed to ship outside their home countries.
(It's a broken rule I know, but not from my end.)
 
Last edited:
You have to try them yourself, instead of relying on [sometime] spurious internet comments.

One thing though - you want to use these for close-up work and I don't think the 8x30 is the way to go. My experience with these porros is the closer you get the more image divergence you get, due to the wide tube offset. That will require changing the IPD each time you want to close focus.
 
The 7x42 Habicht does not have the same glare issue as the 8x30. I have had both side by side. And the 10x40 does not have the issue to same degree. Glare did not really bother me in the 8x30; but the 7x42 suppresses it even more- it is very, very good in that regard.
 
IMO if you plan to use the binoculars frequently at such short distances you should abandon the idea of Porros with widely spaced objectives. The high parallax error in that type of binocular at short distance causes several bad effects. The worst I think is the impossibility, even if you change the IPD, of placing an object of interest in the center of both the right and left fields simultaneously.
 
lume said:
Yes I noticed I must exert either strong convergence (eyes coming together) or divergence (eyes getting apart).. I heard our divergence reserve is less than convergence reserve (measure in diopters).. meaning if you diverge, there will tend to be more eyestrain. I can't figure out if I'm diverging or converging my eyes when viewing closeup. Any idea?

But they say use porro for 3D effect for closeup. How "close" is it? How many meters to target object usually?
Click to expand...

I have some experience with porro binoculars and the thoughts above
are very correct, as when you are very close to the subject 10 meters or
less, you will find it hard to adjust the IPD to obtain a proper view.

The porro may offer some 3D view out for a distance of 20-50 meters
and then beyond that it becomes the same as any binocular.

For your close-up viewing as you require, you should try your EII out
for a while, to see how you like it. Most any porro will be similar to that,
and they may not a good close up choice, but rather used at more typical birding distances.

I hope this helps.

Jerry
 
If you're trying for decent very close focus views, I seriously doubt you could beat the reverse-Porro Pentax Papillo II. If you could live with not-quite-as-close focus, yet still an excellent close-up view, from a compact roof bin, you could go with these and live with their limitations.

I suspect, though, that you're searching for a binocular which is perfect in every possible way.

Good luck with that! (And let us know when you've found it! As long as you don't find a new "perfect" bin every 6 months [see: Dennis]).

All actually-existing binoculars are going to require some sort of compromise. Your only option, unless you want to go - or be - insane, is to figure out the compromises you're prepared to live with, versus those you aren't.

Then buy 'em and look through 'em. At birds if that takes your fancy (it does mine) or whatever else you want to look at. You'll feel much happier looking at things you like, through binoculars you're at least OK with, than you will be trying to assess the last poofteenth of CA at a high-contrast edge, or whatever optical fandangle (eg. flare) you might think burns your b*m at any given time.

...Mike
 
Last edited:
lume said:
I read this review of the Zeiss Victory HT (you talking about it?)

http://www.greatestbinoculars.com/allpages/reviews/zeiss/zeissvictoryht8x42/zeissvictoryht8x42.html

It mentions:

"Threedimensionality
of the images is exceptional and the best in any roof prism bino I have seen, although of course not matching a porro prism. The objectives are 6mm wider spaced than the oculars, this is the widest stereo base of all 8x42s on review. The Zeiss SF features 4mm, the Nikon EDG 2mm, the Ultravid 0mm. "

7. Most pronounced threedimensionality, half way between a roof and a porro!"

I'm after the 3D view watching bird close up. So there is just nothing (No roofs of any kind) that can beat the Habicht 8x30?
Click to expand...

Hi Lume

I am talking about my own experience with Zeiss Victory HT which, as you have also read elsewhere, has objectives spaced wider apart than the eyepieces and it is this that gives the 3D feel. No HT doesn't have as much of this effect as a porro, but on the other hand you will be more comfortable with HT when viewing at different close distances as the wide spacing of porros makes this increasing uncomfortable to the divergence of the two images from each optical tube.

Lee
 
lume said:
I was testing this a while ago. If you didn't change the IPD (or make the bino objectives closer).. would your eyes need to diverge or converge to see the image? I noticed there is either converging or diverging in my eyes.. are you saying the roof prism would have less effect of this (since I want to use it between 4 to 6 meters)? But I can't get the optical paths. I mean if the objective is wider apart (as in porro).. why do your eyes need to diverge more (or is it converge more?) to see if you didn't make it closer?
Click to expand...

For close-up observing you may want to consider a Pentax Papillo.
 
Warning! This thread is more than 8 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Similar threads

R
Habicht for birdwatching?
8 9 10
Replies
185
Views
14K
dorubird
dorubird
Z
Seeking Help with Identifying and Restoring Habicht DV 8x30 Binoculars
Replies
5
Views
1K
Zasvasta
Z
R
Habicht 8x30 question..
Replies
14
Views
2K
Rg548
R
R
Glare on the Habicht 8x30
2
Replies
25
Views
2K
Rg548
R
MiddleRiver
And another (yawn...) SFL 8x30 thread/question...
Replies
15
Views
2K
MiddleRiver
MiddleRiver

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top