Choosing compact binoculars (1 Viewer)

J T · Apr 18, 2003

Hi everyone,

I'm new here, but I saw that people seem to give friendly answers to questions so I thought I'd post my own current dilemma... I apologise if this is an issue that people argue about regularly but I couldn't find much using the 'search' function, so:

Which compacts (8x20ish) do you use / do you prefer / do you think are better? (Also, is it worth going for the 10x25ish versions? I'll obviously try out the two sets of specs before I buy, but is there a general consensus of opinion?)

I'm thinking of investing in Leica, Zeiss or Swarovski. I've had chance to try out the Leica Trinovids and Zeiss ClassiCs but not found the Swarovski model in any shops yet.

At the moment I have a cheap pair of Praktica things but I'm tired of the poor quality image, have got some money, and want to do a decent upgrade.

I'm not seriously into birdwatching, but want something small, lightweight and of excellent quality for hiking in the UK and also travelling worldwide, for general use but of course also for when I see birds/other animals/etc and am interested in getting a better view.

I hope I can get some advice here.

Thanks for your time

Leif · Apr 18, 2003

JT: I bought a Zeiss 8x20 Classic binocular for my mother to watch her bird feeder. Bird Watching magazine gave them higher marks than the Leica and Swarovski equivalents and when I tested them I was impressed. The view is superb: no discernable colour cast, a decent field of view, and good centre sharpness, with some softness at the edges. You might also wish to consider the Bausch And Lomb 8x24 Legacy porro-prism binocualr at half the price. Nothing like as neat but a very nice binocular nonetheless.

Of course these compact binoculars are only of use in good light as the objectives are so small. They are also a little fiddly to view through as the exit pupils are tiny. But for hiking they will do the business.

Andy Bright · Apr 19, 2003

From all that I've heard from those looking at compacts in the 8x20 range, the Zeiss binos seem to be consistantly rated ahead of the other major players.
Andy

J T · Apr 19, 2003

It's kind of good to hear people sayiing Zeiss are "the best" (I know, very subjective) as they seem considerably cheaper than the other brands ... or are people referring to the Victory series as opposed to the Classic series? (And, what's the difference? The zeiss website isn't particularly clear).

However, the review on binoculars.org put the Zeiss Classic 8x20 third place after the Leicas and the Swars, saying "The look of this binocular is state of the art, but the optics did not reflect the price." ... and that's with the Zeiss at $400, the Leicas at $480 and the Swars at $530.

Any more opinions?

By the way - if anyone knows any shops where I might be able to try out all 3 brands either around Gloucestershire, or around South Wales (where I'm at university) - that'd be really helpful! Thanks.

The best prices I've found so far are:
Zeiss Victory £280
Zeiss Classic £215
Swarovski £280
Leica £245 (plus £25 case!)
so if anyone knows anywhere with better prices - that'd be great to hear too!

Thanks again.

Leif · Apr 20, 2003

You could ring the In Focus shop at the WWT centre at Slimbridge and see what they have. They don't do Leica though due to too small a profit margin. London Camera Exchange have lots of shops and okay prices. They stock most brands though viewing facilities are not as good as In Focus.

The Bird Watching magazine reviewed both the 8x20 Classic and the 8x20 Victory. The former got higher scores on all counts. The Victory is more stylish and waterproof.

By the way, go for the 8x rather than 10x. You'll get less eye strain, greater depth of field, greater field of view and less shake.

As for the www.binoculars.org review, I would take it only as a broad guide. The Leica 8x32 is rated as high as the Swarovski 8.5x42 EL and Zeiss 8x40 Victory. In practice the Leica is a small glass and is noticeably less sharp and less bright than the other two.

Andy Bright · Apr 20, 2003

Yep, some of those reviews from across the Atlantic are a bit odd (BVD in particular) and seem to go against reviews and personal experience from Europe (though we get some strange ones in certain U.K. mags!).
I'd like to see those $80 binos (mentioned at bino's.org) that are optically comparable to the Swaro' El's??? And 32mm objectives outperforming 42mm??? Not in light nor resolution!
Andy

Paul Rule · Apr 20, 2003

Ace Cameras in Bath might be a good bet, they stock all leading brands and their prices are competitive.

I have to comment on Leifs remarks on the 8x32 Leica. OK they do not have the light gathering power of the EL's or Victory's(or the Leica 8x42) but under most light conditions you are not going to notice the difference. As for sharpness they are top notch. I just dont understand the dismissal of these bins (and no mention of the 8X42's). You dont work for In Focus do you?

Paul

Andy Bright · Apr 21, 2003

I don't think Leif was knocking the Leica's.... just that the review site said that the 8x32bn were at least equal to the 40 & 42mm Zeiss and Swaro's..... which isn't the case. The 8x42bn's would be comparable (reviewer didn't have them).
Be interesting when Swaro' bring out their 8x32 EL's to compare vs the Leica.
I'd wouldn't shop at In Focus.... a company losing it's reputation quite quickly, they used to be a top shop.
Andy

marcus · Apr 21, 2003

Mr. Bright,
Is Swarovski really going to come out with an 8x32 EL? Sounds interesting.

Andy Bright · Apr 21, 2003

marcus said:
Mr. Bright,
Is Swarovski really going to come out with an 8x32 EL? Sounds interesting.

No-one call me Mr Bright with my boots off 3

I have it on very good authority that Swarovski will be unleashing the 8x32 EL's in the next few months ... probably to be shown at the U.K. Birdfair in August (big 3 days for 'us' at BF).
It's a big gap in their range, 8x32 is a very popular choice ... they should be very lightweight when you consider the other EL's.
Andy

J T · Apr 21, 2003

*pulling the thread back on-topic*

The Bird Watching magazine reviewed both the 8x20 Classic and the 8x20 Victory. The former got higher scores on all counts. The Victory is more stylish and waterproof.

So the Classic model is better than the Victory? Does anyone have a copy of the article they can send me? (photocopies? email?)

Is the lack of nitrogen-filling in the Leicas a real-world disadvantage? I mean, I'm not going to be using the binoculars in the pouring rain, but long-term are the Leicas liable to get fungus problems etc? Or is it just a theoretical risk?

Thanks again.

Leif · Apr 21, 2003

Paul: I was not knocking the Leica 8x32 bins and would choose them rather than the 8x42. My point was that you do pay a price for a small objective. As you say, most of the time you won't notice the difference. You will notice the difference in brightness in dark woods or after sunset but most of the time it will not make the difference between and id and no id. The sharpness is top notch (the equal of many cheaper 8x42 bins) but there is a noticeable lack of bite when viewing through the 8x32 compared with the 8x42. In practice it is mainly aesthetic rather than an increase in useful information and says a lot about the top end 8x42 bins.

Andy: I heard from Ace Cameras in Bath that Swarovski reps are talking about a new Swarovski 8x30. Hardly surprising as the SLC version is too eccentric: poor close focus, very hard to use diopter wheel, odd focus wheel placement. Lovely optics though. Better than the Leica 8x32. (Ooops. Better dive for cover!) I doubt the new one will exceed the Nikon equivalents. They are much brighter than any others. But we shall see. By the way, how do you mean about the BVD reviews being a bit odd?

JT: I should have mentioned Ace Cameras. I have visited them twice. Bought a spotting scope on one occasion. I was pleased that I got no bullshit from the staff. Second time I visited they talked me out of a sale! Often these specialist shops seem to push whatever costs a lot of money, and I get the feeling they are not that honest when describing the performance of an item (the salesman in them takes over), but I have been very impressed with Ace Cameras. Worth a try.

By the way, anyone used the recently discontinued Zeiss 8x30 Dialyt? I recently tried a pair from the early 70's and was amazed to see almost no chromatic aberration. Are the modern ones as good? The presence of obvious chromatic aberration is for me the one serious failure of all (?) modern binoculars.

J T · Apr 21, 2003

Thanks to everyone who's replied so far... just wondering, has anyone tried out the Nikon High Grade 8x20s? I'll probably go on down to In Focus at WWT Slimbridge later this week sometime to try things out, but I'm just wondering if anyone has any opinions they'd like to share?

Eddie · Apr 22, 2003

JT,
I have the new 8x20 Nikons with the HG glass and they are fantastic. I have a pair of 10x42 for birdwatching trips but use the smaller ones for walking days. I tried the little Zeiss but could not get on with them. I think the Nikons are the best, at least for my eyes.

Eddie

Paul Rule · Apr 22, 2003

I think the truth is us modern birders are spoilt for choice (provided we have the dosh) when it comes to high quality optics. It should be a case of try them all and buy the one that suits you.

mak · Apr 25, 2003

J.T.

I will tell you the difference between the Zeiss Victory and Zeiss ClassiC compacts.

The Victory are waterproof, nitrogen filled, but waterproof or weatherproof, both binoculars stand up in the rain, however those binoculars that are not nitrogen filled could fog if dried in a false environment. This can happen with any binocular that is not nitrogen filled (nitrogen filled is only as good as the sealing)

The field of view is wider, and the close focus is nearer, the optics in general have a slightly higher performance on the Victory compacts against the ClassiC compacts. The Victory are rubber armoured and have push/pull eyecups. Why did Birdwatching not have them when they did their review, well they were not available.

Leif.

The Zeiss 8x30 BGAT* is still available in the UK.

trealawboy · Dec 9, 2003

J T said:
Thanks to everyone who's replied so far... just wondering, has anyone tried out the Nikon High Grade 8x20s? I'll probably go on down to In Focus at WWT Slimbridge later this week sometime to try things out, but I'm just wondering if anyone has any opinions they'd like to share?

Sorry to be late arriving on this thread, but I though it may be useful to contribute.

I wanted a pair of compacts back in the summer, and had a fairly open mind to what I would buy. I'd previously seen the Swarovski 8x20 and rated them above their Leica and Zeiss equivalents. I then saw a pair of Nikon 8x20 HG DCF at In Focus in Slimbridge. They were amazing and I bought them.

Subsequently, after that week I came across the Better View Desired review of compacts, which rated the Zeiss Victory 8x20 alongside the Nikons. Being a Zeiss 10x40 BGAT owner I felt I needed to satisfy myself that I'd got the best pair. Fortunately, In Focus allow 14 days for you to return new bins if you're not satisfied and the following weekend saw them visit WWT Llanelli and I arranged for a pair of the Zeiss Victory's to be there for me to view.

I took quite some time over looking through both bins. They hadle differently, with the Zeiss having a rubber finish and a single hinge to one side. Notably the focussing wheel is at the eyecup side of the bins so you focus with the index finger. The Nikons have the focussing wheel at the other end so you focus with you little or middle finger. This can feel odd at first but you get used to it.

Anyway, back to the optics. The Nikons are in my view better. slightly brighter and more contrasty. I was therefore satisfied I'd made the right choice the week earlier, and have been enjoying them for the last 3 months.

All to often I feel, we are seduced by the German/Austrian brands, but I reckon the Japanese and most certainly Nikon are right up there among the very best optic available.

pduxon · Dec 9, 2003

welcome to the forum trealawboy

Gaukur · Dec 9, 2003

This spring I bought me a pair of Zeiss Victory 10x25 as my other binos are just too heavy to carry around all the time (Zeiss 10x56 Nightowls). I am very impressed by their quality. I tried them against Zeiss 10x25 ClassiCs and did not see much difference optically but the Victory's are just better to handle besides being truly waterproof. I did not have the chance to try them agains other brands but I looked for reviews on compact binos on the internet and they seemed to be in favour for Zeiss. [My telescope is of course also Zeiss (85FL)]

Choosing compact binoculars (1 Viewer)

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