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field of view (1 Viewer)

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Caty on the Bay

Active member
I may be spoiled but the only binocular I have used much is an older Nikon 8x30 with an 8.8 degree width. I have been tossing around the idea of an upgrade. I bird casually at best so I am thinking that a pair of really good compacts will do for my use but they have fields that are more like 6.3 to 6.8 degrees in the 8x variants. Is it hard to use a narrow field? The smaller exit pupils do not hinder me and I have never had a problem getting them aligned to my eyes. I've noticed many less expensive binoculars that are recommended here like the Monarchs and even the top of the line 10x binoculars like the Ultravids and Zeisses have similar fields so people must be used to such a field and enjoying the experience, so it must be okay. Thanks
 
It does sometimes sees as though one is harder pressed to get a wide FOV from a compact binocular as compared to a full size. However in practice, I find that this only becomes readily apparent when I make a direct comparison between the two. In normal field use, I am far too intent on seeing the item I am looking at to be bothered by the slightly narrower field. However there are some compacts that in fact do offer some reasonably wide fields of view. For example:

7x26 Bushnell Custom Compact 363' @ 1000 yds
8x20 Nikon Premier LXL 356'
8x20 Leica Trinovid 345'
8x20 Swarovski Pocket 345'

Go up to 10x and its a bit harder but the best of the pack seems to be:

10x25 Leica Trinovid 285' @ 1000 yds
10x25 Swarovski Pocket 285'
10x25 Zeiss Victory 285'
10x25 Nikon Premier LXL 282'

Actually, some of these FOV figures are in fact, higher than what can be found in many full sized binoculars. For example the 8x Kahles, Pentax DCF SP, Nikon Monarch, and Bushnell Legend binoculars all have a FOV of only 330'.
 
Dear Caty,

Do you have a Nikon EII?

First of all, you have to decide what Field of View (FOV) is acceptable to you. As the binocular manufacturers sell eight power glasses with an FOV as low as 6.3 degrees, there must be some satisfied customers. By the way roof prism binoculars tend to have narrower FOV's and binoculars with larger objectives, given the same power, also tend to have narrower FOV's.

Secondly, when comparing FOV of binoculars with different powers, it is useful to compare the Apparent Field of View, the Fov in degrees of arc multiplied by the power.
A 7.5 degree true FOV in the 8x32 Nikon Se gives an AFOV of 60 degrees, not narrow but not really wide. A 6.5 degree FOV in a ten power binocular has an AFOV of 65 degrees, which is nicely wide.

My bottom line in an eight power binocular is at least eight degrees FOV but 8.8 degrees is very nice indeed, if there is reasonable across the field sharpness. Your preferences may differ so you have to try the binocular yourself.

There are other factors which go into the manufacturers design compromise. We have to optimize our needs, which include price and weight considerations, with those design compromises.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur
 
They are marked EII, they were a hand me down from my grandfather. In doing some research I don't think they are as old as I thought but they look like the binoculars he used his whole life, but maybe I never noticed when he changed them.
 
There ought to be a term for this, but what I am thinking of is the act of seeing a bird then bringing your binocular up to your eyes and immediately getting that bird in your binocular's view. It takes some practice, and I have noticed that if I don't do any birdwatching for a long time, it takes practice to learn to do again. I can only assume that this eye-binocular sighting practice is easier and quicker with a wider field of view.

And to throw something else into the mix: what difference does depth of field make in eye-binocular sighting? For me, a shallow depth of field makes the practice more difficult, especially with birds in trees where there are many distracting branches and leaves both behind and in front of the bird.

My hunch is that a binocular with both wide field of view and good depth of field will make most eye-binocular sighting easier.

EDIT: Caty, the EIIs are great! As many others here will tell you. They have an old-fashioned design, which is probably why they look like what your grandfather birded with way back. I doubt that you can do much better than the EIIs without spending a LOT of money. And I think you will be disappointed by most compacts after using the EIIs.
 
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Caty on the Bay said:
They are marked EII, they were a hand me down from my grandfather. In doing some research I don't think they are as old as I thought but they look like the binoculars he used his whole life, but maybe I never noticed when he changed them.
Click to expand...
Dear Caty on the Bay,

The EII may have spoiled you for much narrower views. It has just been discontinued but I doubt that anything but the most expensive roof prism binoculars with eight degree fields of view may please you.

Dear Trashbirder,

I am not going to disagree with you.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood
 
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Well there are a few things that bug me about these binoculars. When I used them recently in temperatures hovering in the teens they fogged as I got in and out of the van and the focus was hard to turn. I also notice problems both when using me glasses or contacts. I lose some of the view when I wear my glasses. When I don't and the light is bright there is a purple glow at the edge of the field. I also like butterflies as much as birds and they don't focus well enough on close objects. I would like waterproof and close focusing roofs, but can't afford the $1000 or more models. I think I would be happy with compact Leicas or Zeiss if I could adjust to the narrower view.
 
Caty,
You aren't going to get a better binocular with as wide a field as the Nikon 8 x 30 EII at ANY price! Nobody makes one. The one that comes closest is Swift's 8.5 x 44 Audubon Porro Prism which is twice as big and twice as heavy as your Nikon and has shorter eye relief to boot. If you want to get a roof prism binocular with optics that approach the excellence of your Nikons and has a FOV of 400' more or less you will have to pay upwards of $400.00. There are less expensive ones on the market but they won't match the optics of your Nikons. Maybe you should consider buying a 2nd binocular to cover situations that your Nikons don't handle well. Eagle Optics new Denali 8 x 42 roof prisms cost $159.00. They have phase coating, 18mm eye relief, 367'FOV, are waterproof and weigh only 20.6 oz. and they focus down to 6 and 1/2 feet.

Meanwhile keep your EII's. They are a Classic. It's not likely we will ever see binoculars like them again! Your granddad knew what he was doing when he bought them. They have been discussed and analyzed as much or more than any other binocular has in BirdForum. Check the Nikon thread on this binocular forum.
Cordially,
Bob
 
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Caty on the Bay said:
Well there are a few things that bug me about these binoculars. When I used them recently in temperatures hovering in the teens they fogged as I got in and out of the van and the focus was hard to turn. I also notice problems both when using me glasses or contacts. I lose some of the view when I wear my glasses. When I don't and the light is bright there is a purple glow at the edge of the field. I also like butterflies as much as birds and they don't focus well enough on close objects. I would like waterproof and close focusing roofs, but can't afford the $1000 or more models. I think I would be happy with compact Leicas or Zeiss if I could adjust to the narrower view.
Click to expand...


I'm confused about what binocular you have there. I've never seen an EII that was actually marked EII. Where is the marking on your binocular?
 
I have the box still and it says EII, The box looks ancient but I guess their boxes still look like this, to be honest I have not spent much time with the binoculars in the last few weeks and I assumed it said the model on them some where in all that logo.

I really want something smaller, so those big porros are out. If I do buy a new pair I really want to treat myself to something nice that will last me forever, so I basically amd looking at one of the top companies. If I could justify spending $1500 or $1000 I'd buy an 8x32 maybe, but I can feel much better spending $5-600 for a binocular that fits my needs as well and also can go right into a pocket or to the ballet easily. My only real concern with these little folding beauties is their field widths are less than I am used to, even though I am used to an absurdly wide field. If the width is still usable, and it would seem to be seeing as how many cheaper binoculars compare with them in that regard, I will only have to adjust. My main question is how easy is that going to be.
 
I think you can find some lighter porros for under 500, so don't give up on your FOV dreams. Look at some more models. If you still want a more compact/lighter bin, I would go for a Monarch 8x42 or so, but there is a thread on these and there are more Nikon Monarch models out soon. FOV will be much the same, though, and more narrow for 10x.

I use Nikon porros 8x40 and the field of view is 8.2deg, when I want to see a lot of field. Found some diving ducks today, only by scanning across the river, they were quite far. My 10x36 bins would have been more work to scan the entire river.
 
Tero, I am really not wishing to find an equally wide binocular and I am quite leaning towards a compact roof prism binocular for reasons I have said above. I want to know if it would be hard for me to adjust if I got them considering I have only really used about the widest you'll even find.
 
Caty on the Bay said:
Tero, I am really not wishing to find an equally wide binocular and I am quite leaning towards a compact roof prism binocular for reasons I have said above. I want to know if it would be hard for me to adjust if I got them considering I have only really used about the widest you'll even find.
Click to expand...

Caty, the simple answer in my opinion is: yes, for awhile. But while you are adjusting to the FOV you might also be pleased with how lightweight and compact your binoc is. If you want to spend the $500-600 (push it to 700 just to be safe) for a compact roof prism binocular, then go for the Zeiss, Swarovski, Nikon, or Leica models. Many of the compacts made by these companies are also very elegant looking and you won't look like you just got back from duck hunting when you go to the ballet. ;)
 
It may also be difficult to go from narrow to wide! Some people are quite uncomfortable with a very wide view. And some hate to hold any porros. Well, except compacts, anybody can hold those.

I have gotten to the idea that it is like cars: you can learn to drive a couple of different models as long as you get the feel for each one. It may be easiest if you stick to the same magnification, especially as far as bird IDing goes. It still confuses to see Goldfinches at 8x and 10x.
 
The smallest 32's I've seen are Leupold's Wind River Katmai 6x or 8x32's. They will fit your procrustean specifications except for taking them to the ballet. They're too big for a clutch purse. An alternative is the compact Pentax 8 x 28, which MIGHT fit. Both are reasonably priced. Check www.eagleoptics.com. for more specs on them.
Bob
 
Caty on the Bay said:
...
A) I bird casually at best so I am thinking that a pair of really good compacts will do for my use but they have fields that are more like 6.3 to 6.8 degrees in the 8x variants.

B) Is it hard to use a narrow field?

C) The smaller exit pupils do not hinder me and I have never had a problem getting them aligned to my eyes.

D) I've noticed many less expensive binoculars that are recommended here like the Monarchs and even the top of the line 10x binoculars like the Ultravids and Zeisses have similar fields so people must be used to such a field and enjoying the experience, so it must be okay.
Click to expand...

Hey Caty,

Harking back to your initial post, I would say: (A) a really good compact is a joy to use, (B) it is not hard to adapt to the narrower field, (C) dealing with the small exit pupils is a key ingredient, and (D) many folks enjoy and even prefer the experience. Compact binoculars, however, do not replace medium or large format capabilities, although they often offer a suprisingly acceptable alternative.

I remember using my trusty Swaro 10x25 SLC travel binoculars in Central Park, NYC two years ago, trying to find a Ruby Throated Hummingbird along with a gaggle of elder birders puffed up with pride about their bigger and more expensive "birding binocuars." I could easily find the bird and identify the white tips of the female's tail feathers, while most of them were still struggling.

I'd recommend a waterproof compact for obvious reasons. Swaro 10x25 and 8x20 SLCs have served my wife and I well for several years, but the other top brands are probably just as good. I'm not a believer that there is necessarily a "best binocular."

Ed
 
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Pinewood said:
Dear Caty,

Do you have a Nikon EII?

First of all, you have to decide what Field of View (FOV) is acceptable to you. As the binocular manufacturers sell eight power glasses with an FOV as low as 6.3 degrees, there must be some satisfied customers. By the way roof prism binoculars tend to have narrower FOV's and binoculars with larger objectives, given the same power, also tend to have narrower FOV's.

Secondly, when comparing FOV of binoculars with different powers, it is useful to compare the Apparent Field of View, the Fov in degrees of arc multiplied by the power.
A 7.5 degree true FOV in the 8x32 Nikon Se gives an AFOV of 60 degrees, not narrow but not really wide. A 6.5 degree FOV in a ten power binocular has an AFOV of 65 degrees, which is nicely wide.

My bottom line in an eight power binocular is at least eight degrees FOV but 8.8 degrees is very nice indeed, if there is reasonable across the field sharpness. Your preferences may differ so you have to try the binocular yourself.

There are other factors which go into the manufacturers design compromise. We have to optimize our needs, which include price and weight considerations, with those design compromises.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur
Click to expand...
Arthur,

I calculated the same 60 degree AFOV for the SE and wondered why it was so pleasing to me. I concluded there are three fields of view: Real, Apparent, and Useful. The Useful FOV is so good in the SE I have never once felt inhibited by the other two.

Let's go birding!
John
 
Caty on the Bay said:
I have the box still and it says EII...
If I could justify spending $1500 or $1000 I'd buy an 8x32 maybe, but I can feel much better spending $5-600 for a binocular that fits my needs as well and also can go right into a pocket or to the ballet easily. My only real concern with these little folding beauties is their field widths are less than I am used to...
Click to expand...

Caty,
Given your experience with the optically excellent Nikon 8x30 EII porro, I wouldn't think that you would find the optical quality of $200-$600 mid-sized roof prism binoculars to be satisfying. I certainly don't. I'd get the Leica 8x20 or the Zeiss 8x20 Victory, both of which I prefer optically and (especially) ergonomically over other pocket-roofs. These binos (esp the Leicas) are little jewels that are probably about as good as binos of this size can get, and either would be a solid purchase that should satisfy a (sane) person's uses for a compact/pocket bino for the rest of his/her life.

That said, I MUCH prefer 2/3 and full-size binos to compacts/pockets for birding because they offer a better, "easier" view in a multitude of ways that are very noticeable in field use but harder to appreciate when testing binos in the shop. The good news here, is that you already have an excellent mid-sized bino--your Nikon 8x30 EII! Keep the Nikons and continue using them even after you get a premium pocket. If you now, or ever, want to complement/replace/exceed the quality and functionality that your Nikons provide with a roof-prism model, you'll HAVE to get one of the premium 2/3 or full-sized binos. Given your preference for small size and wide FOV, the only three that I'd bother considering are the Leica 8x32 Ultravid, Leica 8x32 BN, and the Zeiss 8x32 FL (I exclude the Nikon 8x32 LX for its size and weight, and the the Swarovski 8x32 EL for its length). All three of these are heavier than a reverse-porro compact, but can be packed into about the same amount of space. The Leica 8x32 Ultravid is appreciably smaller than the others. It it the smallest bino made that give up NOTHING to full size binos when it comes to optical quality and ergonomics (in my opinion--and I even have 20/12 vision and large hands! Check that it has enough eye-relief for you if you wear glasses though, as it isn't as generous as the Zeiss in that regard).
--AP
 
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