Pentax 10x43 DCF SP review - also compared to Leica (1 Viewer)

Hi all -

Based on the recommendations here, I have picked up a pair of Pentax DCF SP 10x43s and a Minox BD 8x32 BR.

While I havent tried out the latter yet, I did get to take the former out for a week to a national park and give it a bit of a test drive. By way of comparison, what I have been using before have been 8x42 porros - a pair of Minolta Classics and a pair of Bushnell Birding Series.

My reactions:
- overall, the image is very sharp. I found it easier to make out details like brow markings and covert colorations with these binos than with my earlier ones. More on this later.
- the sweet spot seems pretty decent as well. I am sure there is a drop off, but it is fairly gradual and there doesnt appear to be a distinct "less sharp" cut off point. Again, this is based on usage on birds, not test charts - but for my purposes, I didnt find edge sharpness to be an issue as far as bird identifying/watching went
- the binos do suffer from blackout. With practice, it goes away but these arent binos that you bring straight up to your eye, without any fuss. Even after a week, i occasionally still found myself fussing with the adjustments
- focusing is smooth and a lot more precise than my porros. I admit that I dont really have a valid frame of reference here, but by itself, I didnt notice too many problems. The images dont always "snap" into focus, however - sometimes, I do find myself going back and forth to find the optimal focus point... but this appears to be related to a decent depth of field, which makes it a plus, I guess

By itself, I was very happy with the binos. Then I met a friend who was there with a pair of Leica Trinovid 8x42 BAs. I borrowed them and conducted a brief - again, on some birds hanging around and not on a test chart.

In terms of sharpness, I wasnt really able to say that the Trinovids were signficantly sharper. They were indeed a little sharper, but only when doing an A/B comparison - and to be honest, I dont think I'd be able to reliably point out the difference in a blind comparison.

The Trinovids did appear to a bit warmer in rendition as well. Also, they appeared to reduce glare a little better than the Pentax - which may also have contributed to improved perceptual sharpness.

Two areas where the Trinovids blew away the Pentax:

1/ Ease of view. Basically, I simply needed to bring them to my eye and I was getting a great view without blackouts. With the Pentax, it was a lot more finicky to find the right position for the eyes. With practice, I did get better at it, but with the Leicas, it was a doddle.

2/ Reduced viewing strain. In bright light, I occasionally found my eyes feeling strained on the Pentax - almost as if they were struggling to focus. Not so with the Leica. And it wasnt a diopter setting issue - I am more or less blind in one eye due to a sports injury, so the diopter setting doesnt really mean much in my case. However, to be fair to the Pentax, in regular usage, this was rarely an issue. I noticed it more when doing the A/B tests.

For myself - I am not going to upgrade these binos yet. However, if after a few months of extended usage, I still find that the Leica is better in pt no 2 above, I probably will pay the extra bucks to upgrade. Will it be a "value for money" upgrade? Not really. But if it makes my bino usage a little more relaxed, I'm happy to pay the extra amount.

That being said - I think the Pentax binos are pretty much what I was hoping they'd be: on the sweet spot in the price/quality curve. Image quality really isnt drastically better with the Trinovids.

If you are in the market for a bino in the $500 range, give these ones a shot.

Cheers,
Vandit

It sounds to me as if you're like me—more comfortable with a larger EPD. The Pentax's EPD is 4.3, the Leica's 5.25. I've given up using a very good 8x32 and now use a 7x42 and a 6x30. I found my 8x32 was perfectly usable as long as the IPD was precisely right, but bins with 5+ EPDs are just more comfortable and relaxing.

Michael.

Well, now you have a goal, the Trinovid. But will it be the 8x42 or the 10x42? Your Pentax should give you some experience with 10x.

Oops, correction - the Leicas were actually 10x42s, not 8x42s - so their exit pupil is about the same, if not smaller, than that of the Pentax. Sorry for the confusion, Michael.

Tero - well, I would still like to try the Ultravids, as well as the Victory FLs. Until I spend some time with the 8x32s, I dont know for sure. I do know that if I go with a 40-43mm objective, I'll get the 10x binos. They are far more useful for me - I dont find the weight a problem and after handholding a big tele, holding them steady is quite easy.

Vandit

Greetings!

Personally owning a Pentax SP as well as a Trinovid, I can say from personal experience that the above comparison review is spot-on. The only thing that I would add is that the Pentax SP binoculars tend to have smaller FOV's than Leica's offerings.

Best wishes,
Bawko

Try the 7x42BN Leica. You will like it!

Dennis

An update, in case anyone is interested and for the archives (for those considering the Pentax binos in future).

After using them for a while longer, I have found the right viewing angle to minimize eye strain. Basically, when you hold them right against your eyes, you start to get blackouts/greyouts and it is hard to get the IPD just right. On the other hand, when you hold them just a fraction away from your eyes, they are very comfortable to use. The problem is indeed too much eye relief (ie, rubber cups not long enough). Any ideas on what can be done with them?

Focusing on something really close is a recipe for eyestrain and headaches, however. Dunno if that is a collimation issue or just a general bino issue. In practice, it isnt an issue as I rarely focus too close and can always close an eye if need be.

So now that I am comfy with them, I have to seriously consider whether or not it is worth upgrading to an Ultravid or FL. Optically, they are more or less in the same league in the field - I am sure the Alphas are better, but as per my tests, not appreciably enough to make a difference when it came to IDing birds.

The ease/comfort of the Leica is indeed better and tempting, but as long as I never put one of those binos to my eyes, I wont miss it

Vandit

Hi,Try holding top part of eyecup to top of eyebrow and slant bottom of binocular away a little. I do this and it works so well I don't know I do it anymore. BTW I don't have this Pentax, Swarovski 7x30 SLC,Nikon 10x42SE and others.
Steve

Yeah, that is more or less what I do - hold it against my eyebrow, as opposed to against my face. Works wonders.

Thanks for your tests and reply (and also for your reply in the Others thread where I am asking about the SP). It's interesting you find 17mm as too much eye-relief. My dads Bushnell's that are a little beaten right now have 16mm and they are pretty good IMO - being chep zoom binos as you zoom in you have to also really start pushing the thing towards your face as the eye relief goes down fast - at the widest setting of 16mm though they are quite comfortable . I think 22mm with the 8 x 43 may be too much for some but 17mm should be close to perfect for me for example - I like having a little space so I think the eye relief issue is more of a personal thing that differs between users.

A note about eye relief

I bought a pair of 10x43 DCF SP a couple of weeks ago. I appreciate the reviews and discussions made on this forum about this model. It helped me make the decision. I have upgraded from 8X42 Nikon Monarch ATBs, another great pair of glass.

I wanted to say something about the eye relief. As a spectacled birder, eye relief is something I look at first. Without good eye relief (18mm or greater) I will not consider a pair further. For example, in making comparisons before I bought these, I tried some of the big boys (leupolds, swarovskis, and leikas, etc.) and one thing I've come to realize is that eye relief on many of the models I tried was not up to my standard. Many of these models were in the 15.5-17.5mm range. Technically, they would have worked, however I was able to see a negative difference between them and my Monarchs that I was using.

Having said all that, maybe 18-20 mm is all anyone needs. I can see how some non-spectacled friends may have problems. However, I haven't had a single issue of black out or any related issues whatsoever.

I'd also like to say how impressed I am with Pentax and Nikon. These companies go out of their way to bring together many attributes and qualities I like in bins at very reasonable prices. I love the quality and value for the dollar I got when purchasing models made by these companies. I personally think it's a waste of money to buy many of the over-priced European models when we have these options.

I have had DCF SP 10x43's for a few years now and am very happy with them. At least as good of view IMO as my friends Zeiss Classic 10x42's. As far as ER, I have this protruding brow and find these binos to be excellent. I too "stick" the EP's to my brow. Helps steady them along with holding onto my ball cap bill.

I use glasses a small part of the time, and even 16mm has worked from time to time for eye relief, 15mm is getting small. The Pentax seems to be 17mm.

I tend to use lighter pairs with glasses as I never know exactly where to hold them. So they slide a bit. I have 40mm Zeiss and due to their weight almost never use glasses.

Even one reverese porro works a little with glasses, but only a little over half the field or so. Well, it is weird, I can see the edges but the view there is sort of not pleasant. Eye relief is some 15mm there.

I will have to read your review once more and see how I agree. Just one thing to add for now. I also am struggling to get the best focus. I then start fiddling with the diopter. And I find that it is improved if I readjust the diopter for various distances. The most problem I have had with that was with the 10x36 Nikon Sporters. I rarely readjust the diopter with my 10x42 Monarchs. It may be because I am used to their behavior.

I have a feeling this all has to do with the fact that close up, my two eyes are more different than at distance. The prescription I have for glasses has the same for both eyes at distance (bifocals).

This has come up now and again, and I have not gotten a complete explanation.

So, the Pentax diopter readjustment remains the reason I never have gotten to "love" this pair I have had a couple of months now. The situation is not as bad in bright light and with the 8x43 I believe there would be less of a problem, as depth of field is better.

Maybe I need 10x42 porros after all!

For myself - I am not going to upgrade these binos yet. However, if after a few months of extended usage, I still find that the Leica is better in pt no 2 above, I probably will pay the extra bucks to upgrade.

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vkalia, the fair comparison would have been Pentax 8x43, you would have seen less difference.

I had the 10x43 out Saturday for some 4 hours. I am now as comfortable with it as my Monarch. I just leave the diopter set for some 50ft or more. At 30ft I am still OK. It is only slightly off "0" for me at that distance.

Interesting that you mention bifocals, Tero.

I just got surgery to fix the sports-injury-related cataract in my left eye and technically, need bifocals on that eye. Now that I am, for the first time, seeing with both tubes of a binocular, it is a somewhat mixed experience. Brighter, larger field of view - yes, but for some reason, it feels a little strained. Possibly b/c of the bifocal issue in my left eye requiring different diopter adjustments at different focal lengths.

V.

Good luck. You get used to it. Or go 8.5x or 8x.

Vkalia: do you now have no accommodation in your injured eye?

Did they replace the lens in that eye or just remove the cataracts?

vkalia said:

Interesting that you mention bifocals, Tero.

I just got surgery to fix the sports-injury-related cataract in my left eye and technically, need bifocals on that eye. Now that I am, for the first time, seeing with both tubes of a binocular, it is a somewhat mixed experience. Brighter, larger field of view - yes, but for some reason, it feels a little strained. Possibly b/c of the bifocal issue in my left eye requiring different diopter adjustments at different focal lengths.

V.

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Pardon me, V. But I don't understand. Don't you first bring the binocular into sharp focus with your left eye and then set the diopter for your right eye?

Is it possible that you have a muscle imbalance in your eyes caused by the dominant use of your right eye while you had the cataract in your left eye? The muscles in the affected eye get weaker from lack of use. I had a problem with muscle imbalance for a while after I had cataract surgery in my left eye. My sight was OK if I looked straight ahead, but if I rolled my eyes upward or downward I had a problem with my binocular vision (that is to say my binocular vision while NOT using binoculars). It went away after a while.

Bob