In the nests of Goshawks have been found Red kite, Buzzard, Raven, Honey Buzzard, Hare. Goshawks do not have a fearsome reputation for nothing. Buzzards are under-estimated in some ways I do agree. This video is just one of many encounters that will happen in the wild. The Goshawk kept the Buzzard off for 2 minutes and then the buzzard jumped from above. Maybe the Goshawk was weakened previous? Maybe it had its share? There are many reasons why it gave up to the end, we will never know the truth. If the Goshawk was not a fearsome bird the 3 Ravens would have come a lot closer and maybe even displaced it. They at first keep a very respectful distance and do not get in the way of either species. The fact 3 Ravens do not try and displace a lone Goshawk tells you something about the position of the Goshawk in the ecosystem.
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great skua killed an adult ganet (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter scuba0095
- Start date
I have posted already cases of them killing goshawks there are many more on there, martin and if you think me not knowing the name of a wood pecker means anything you are delusional. LOL the worst logic ever!
It does not take an orthologist to see that you are extremely bias and defensive and refuse to take the truth for some odd reason. This is ridiculous and because of that it makes your credibility go out the window.
Sanga i suggest you not make things up saying you held all these birds because you never did. And a falconer any falconer on earth would laugh at you if you said the p falcon was the most powerful talons lb for lb. Falcons do not have power in their talons nothing like the hawks. THey kill with their BEAKS. You really do not know much either. This is sad.
I have seen all these birds up close no one knows their true power unless they get hands on experience with them. For that you need a permit. I am not going to get a permit. But you can interact with thousands of falconers to get a good idea on the power of each species. Honesty it does not take a scientist to figure it out when a thousand falconers all agree with the same thing.
You would think that they would be upset at their birds being weaker but no actually it is the bird watchers that have a very hard time accepting the truth when it comes to power. Falconers accept the reality of their species. Bird watchers can't? LMAO
It does not take an orthologist to see that you are extremely bias and defensive and refuse to take the truth for some odd reason. This is ridiculous and because of that it makes your credibility go out the window.
Sanga i suggest you not make things up saying you held all these birds because you never did. And a falconer any falconer on earth would laugh at you if you said the p falcon was the most powerful talons lb for lb. Falcons do not have power in their talons nothing like the hawks. THey kill with their BEAKS. You really do not know much either. This is sad.
I have seen all these birds up close no one knows their true power unless they get hands on experience with them. For that you need a permit. I am not going to get a permit. But you can interact with thousands of falconers to get a good idea on the power of each species. Honesty it does not take a scientist to figure it out when a thousand falconers all agree with the same thing.
You would think that they would be upset at their birds being weaker but no actually it is the bird watchers that have a very hard time accepting the truth when it comes to power. Falconers accept the reality of their species. Bird watchers can't? LMAO
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Mark Lew1s
My real name is Mark Lewis
This thread is hilarious!
You seem to know a lot about Raptors scuba0095 - what's your background?
You seem to know a lot about Raptors scuba0095 - what's your background?
Allen S. Moore
Well-known member
There seems to be too much about falconers for a wild bird thread IMHO.
martin kitching
Obsessed seawatcher
In this thread Sangahyando managed the "worst logic in the world"...only to quickly be overtaken. Over to you Sanga...
Oh well, time to get back to worrying about my credibility :t:
cheers
martin
Oh well, time to get back to worrying about my credibility :t:
cheers
martin
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Just in case this guy is serious
Look at Table 1 for three reference dealing with Goshawk predation on Common Buzzards
http://digital.csic.es/bitstream/10261/59681/1/ibis08.pdf
Common Buzzard nesting success is impacted by Goshawk predation (but note trade-offs)
http://www.uni-bielefeld.de/biologie/vhf/OK/Publications/Oikos_96_441_452.pdf
and finally a classic on raptor strike-speed
http://sora.unm.edu/sites/default/files/journals/auk/v088n04/p0815-p0827.pdf
My falconer friend says that very few are interested in Buzzards as they have little wow factor. He says their talons are weak, they dont predate large items. Why dont falconers in the Middle East show interest in Buzzards?
My friend said that his Goshawks have killed his Sakers and the few Buzzards he came by.
My friend said that his Goshawks have killed his Sakers and the few Buzzards he came by.
Sangahyando
Well-known member
I think this post is missing some part. It should be something like "I'm sorry for insulting other people and making false claims, as well as being the one responsible for the thread going off topic in the first place."
I'd like that.
Sangahyando
Well-known member
I didn't. It's one of your strawmen.
tony robb
Well-known member
stevo
Well-known member
I quite agree,forgive me for asking but doesn`t the great skua have webbed feet?
Steve.
I thought they did too till i saw one up close they have webbed feet but unlike gulls they have super long talons attached to it. Its wierd. Also they have a very solid build. LIke much much more solid build than any bird I have ever seen at that size.
I never thought they were that capable before. I thought they were just like gulls or ravens using their aggression and flying ability. But they kill grey herons, shelducks and large birds really easy.
The hawk issue is mostly complaints from falconers because when a bonxie comes into the mix the falcons refuse to fly at gulls because of them. They are terrified of bonxies and often will crash and fall because of bonxie attacks.
Again I am just passing on information. A lot of this is very strange because in the south it makes no sense. The larger brown skua does not do things like this. The brown skua I have not even heard of killing kelp gulls.
ALso remember a group of gulls took down a p falcon over water was posted here? they were herring gulls or something.
Anyone who has had more personal obervations with the great skua can chime in. A gannet is a large powerful sea bird.
People in the uk hired to control gulls with gryfalcons have said they would never dream of hunting skuas with falcons or even dare attempt it. They said if a falcon tried it. It would not end well for their bird and would never try it again. They are honest about what their birds can and cant do.
THe level flight speed thing came from the falconer telling me the bonxies had no trouble catching their falcons while the falcons were flying after gulls in level flight. They said they were fast enough to catch their falcons. They had no trouble catching up with the falcons. I can send more info but it is personal talks with falconers in pm.
I dont know this stuff suprised me as much as it did anyone else. But to be a kelp to parasite a bird must be faster than its host? Just like the frigate bird which is one of the most fastest level flight birds on earth. The skua family must be faster than their hosts to steal their food. They must have better agility also.
The speed of the falcon come from diving. and in a stoop. Just like a golden eagle which is faster than any bird almost in a stoop. But level flight it is so slow ravens take total advantage of them.
I never thought they were that capable before. I thought they were just like gulls or ravens using their aggression and flying ability. But they kill grey herons, shelducks and large birds really easy.
The hawk issue is mostly complaints from falconers because when a bonxie comes into the mix the falcons refuse to fly at gulls because of them. They are terrified of bonxies and often will crash and fall because of bonxie attacks.
Again I am just passing on information. A lot of this is very strange because in the south it makes no sense. The larger brown skua does not do things like this. The brown skua I have not even heard of killing kelp gulls.
ALso remember a group of gulls took down a p falcon over water was posted here? they were herring gulls or something.
Anyone who has had more personal obervations with the great skua can chime in. A gannet is a large powerful sea bird.
People in the uk hired to control gulls with gryfalcons have said they would never dream of hunting skuas with falcons or even dare attempt it. They said if a falcon tried it. It would not end well for their bird and would never try it again. They are honest about what their birds can and cant do.
THe level flight speed thing came from the falconer telling me the bonxies had no trouble catching their falcons while the falcons were flying after gulls in level flight. They said they were fast enough to catch their falcons. They had no trouble catching up with the falcons. I can send more info but it is personal talks with falconers in pm.
I dont know this stuff suprised me as much as it did anyone else. But to be a kelp to parasite a bird must be faster than its host? Just like the frigate bird which is one of the most fastest level flight birds on earth. The skua family must be faster than their hosts to steal their food. They must have better agility also.
The speed of the falcon come from diving. and in a stoop. Just like a golden eagle which is faster than any bird almost in a stoop. But level flight it is so slow ravens take total advantage of them.
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check this picture out a gbb gulls caught and took down an osprey it was probably just trying to take its catch, I dont know if it drowned it or not. Just shows you the raptors easily get victimized.
The last one it caught a female p falcon
Last pictures show you the power of the osprey it is about to kill a blue heron it flipped iti n the air tossed it into the water was about to kill it but then it was saved by some wildlife people.
The last one it caught a female p falcon
Last pictures show you the power of the osprey it is about to kill a blue heron it flipped iti n the air tossed it into the water was about to kill it but then it was saved by some wildlife people.
Attachments
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Enemies: Manniche (1910) relates the following two incidents in which the gyrfalcons were attacked by other birds:
A falcon was in the most violent manner attacked by two Ravens. The quarreling birds flew for a while around high up in the air uttering angry cries, after which the Ravens descended and took place side by side on a rock evidently lurking after Lemmings, the holes of which were numerous around the place. The falcon also settled with the same intention on another rock some 50 meters from the Ravens. At my approach the birds rose again in the air and immediately continued their battle. The Ravens seemed much superior to the falcon, which therefore showed an inclination to fly away to avoid their rough treatment.
The battle at last took place just over my head, and I shot one Raven in order to make the fight more even.
Very sick how some will just shoot birds for the hell of it wow
Not rarely I observed falcons pursued by Skuas (Lestris ton gicauda). At the end of August the young Skuas will frequently be sitting around on stones, still cared for by their parents, which with extreme violence will guard their offspring against attacks from falcons. The Skuas exceed by far the Gyrfalcons in ability of flight, and the falcons therefore always wish to escape the pursuit and retire to the rocks
no clue what kind of skua this monster is talking about
A falcon was in the most violent manner attacked by two Ravens. The quarreling birds flew for a while around high up in the air uttering angry cries, after which the Ravens descended and took place side by side on a rock evidently lurking after Lemmings, the holes of which were numerous around the place. The falcon also settled with the same intention on another rock some 50 meters from the Ravens. At my approach the birds rose again in the air and immediately continued their battle. The Ravens seemed much superior to the falcon, which therefore showed an inclination to fly away to avoid their rough treatment.
The battle at last took place just over my head, and I shot one Raven in order to make the fight more even.
Very sick how some will just shoot birds for the hell of it wow
Not rarely I observed falcons pursued by Skuas (Lestris ton gicauda). At the end of August the young Skuas will frequently be sitting around on stones, still cared for by their parents, which with extreme violence will guard their offspring against attacks from falcons. The Skuas exceed by far the Gyrfalcons in ability of flight, and the falcons therefore always wish to escape the pursuit and retire to the rocks
no clue what kind of skua this monster is talking about
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RafaelMatias
Unknown member
This is Lestris longicauda, ie Stercorarius longicaudus, or Long-tailed Skua, aka Long-tailed Jaeger.
Thus, not Bonxie.
chris butterworth
aka The Person Named Above
To go back to the original post.
1. Great Skua are predators of fish, birds and mammals and therefore have evolved to hunt a variety of prey so it comes as no surprise that one would tackle a Northern Gannet. The is nothing to suggest that the predated bird was in the best condition and, therefore, would present a good opportunity for the Skua. There is evidence ( and I'm not going to search it out ) that individual Great Skua' s tend to 'specialise' in certain prey items so it is within the bounds of possibility that this bird has had previous success with Gannet.
2 The OP mentions that the southern group of Skua's are larger. Apart from the maximum known size of lonnbergi on Tristan and Gough, they all tend to be smaller or equal in size to the northern birds.
As for level flight speed. My own experience ( and common sense ) would indicate they only need to fly a bit faster than their prey, any more is a waste of energy, so the comparison with Falcons seems a bit spurious.
The final quote about 'Skua' seeing off Gyr Falcon strikes me as highly implausible. The writer couldn't identify the species of Skua ( a Long-tailed Skua is more akin to a Tern in size, by comparison ) correctly so how are we expected to take his assertions of Gyrs cowering in fear from 'Skuas'?
Chris
1. Great Skua are predators of fish, birds and mammals and therefore have evolved to hunt a variety of prey so it comes as no surprise that one would tackle a Northern Gannet. The is nothing to suggest that the predated bird was in the best condition and, therefore, would present a good opportunity for the Skua. There is evidence ( and I'm not going to search it out ) that individual Great Skua' s tend to 'specialise' in certain prey items so it is within the bounds of possibility that this bird has had previous success with Gannet.
2 The OP mentions that the southern group of Skua's are larger. Apart from the maximum known size of lonnbergi on Tristan and Gough, they all tend to be smaller or equal in size to the northern birds.
As for level flight speed. My own experience ( and common sense ) would indicate they only need to fly a bit faster than their prey, any more is a waste of energy, so the comparison with Falcons seems a bit spurious.
The final quote about 'Skua' seeing off Gyr Falcon strikes me as highly implausible. The writer couldn't identify the species of Skua ( a Long-tailed Skua is more akin to a Tern in size, by comparison ) correctly so how are we expected to take his assertions of Gyrs cowering in fear from 'Skuas'?
Chris
wolfbirder
Well-known member
I would have thought Gyr's and large skuas retain a healthy respect for each other.
Raptors often avoid threat when they are not hungry or feeling lazy, and they will fly away rather than confront at such times. That can give a false impression of their potential.
Certainly the first Gyr I saw, an immature Greenland-race female, had been plucking Herring Gulls routinely as prey. Herring Gulls are no mugs and are capable of tackling some skua-species.
As with anything, you will always get large and aggressive individuals of raptors and skuas that tackle what is abnormal for the species.
Raptors often avoid threat when they are not hungry or feeling lazy, and they will fly away rather than confront at such times. That can give a false impression of their potential.
Certainly the first Gyr I saw, an immature Greenland-race female, had been plucking Herring Gulls routinely as prey. Herring Gulls are no mugs and are capable of tackling some skua-species.
As with anything, you will always get large and aggressive individuals of raptors and skuas that tackle what is abnormal for the species.
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