• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

"Immersion" - What Price Glory? (1 Viewer)

For me, the first time I experienced that sensation was looking through a pair of Leica BA's back around 1994-5. I was smitten.

I think it has to do with the field of view and eye relief as much as anything - giving the sensation of looking through a tunnel, or that the binoculars "disappear" as you bring them to your eyes. Wide FOV and long eye relief are of course better at creating that feeling.

Personally, I don't "need" that feeling when I use binoculars. I am more interested in resolving ability, esp. in the center of the view, for my birding optics. For my hunting optics, I want edge to edge sharpness and good eye relief, because I often mount them on a tripod and just "look around" in the image without moving the binocular. But if I'm birding, I really only use the center of the FOV anyway.
 
FOV isn't doodly-squat to me. If I move me eyeballs much off-centre I'm immersed in black. Field Curvature doesn't bother me as periphial cannot do justice to fine detail anyway though it still notes objects/movement. Ditto the sharp edge as for me a road to nowhere. I'm also about sick of all the massive ER for glasses though the eye cups will not retract far enough for me. Throw a handle on I'll peer through as opera glasses.

To me a pleasing view is little pincushion distortion added leaving mild barrel distortion w/eyecups I can sink into the back of me eyeballs & excellent control of CA. To date I've found one lowly "off" brand that fills the bill. Dominating CA better I wager than anything currently available under 1000USD. Yes, including the much ballyhooed upstarts.

So far only a mid 70's Swavorski 10x40 has run neck n neck w/it except when one moves close to the sun the Swaro unfortunately exhibits glare. I suppose I prefer not to be immersed in CA. Which is odd considering how much time I view SE-SW looking for CA through different bins.

As always YMMV ...
 
Last edited:
Nixterdemus
If you want 0 CA then you need a Kowa Genesis in 8.5x44 or the 10.5. They are more than a thousand but half a pair of SF's and they balance so well the weight doesn't feel like the listed weight. I love my SF's but that much FOV can be distracting. I find that if I really want to concentrate on something the Kowas serve me better. Things like this are why we all HAVE to have more then one pair bins or more than two or more than three well you get the idea.
Steve
 
Thanks Steve. Through research somewhere I seem to recall that the Genesis was labled as globe effect/rolling ball. Is that an urban bin myth?
The Trinovid HD 10X42/Conquest 10X40/Habicht 10X40 are full blown pincushion. More than I care to view, but not as bothersome as globe effect. Too much PC only bugs me in a fast pan/scan.

I enjoy something in the middle w/least amount of PC required to prevent globe effect. Yet, all I ever read is RB or PC. I understand that people perceive RB, or not, differently. I suppose various degrees could be interpreted differently as well.

If Swarovision were -10 & Habicht/Conquest I listed were 10 i'd like a -3 to -5. It's a shame bins aren't listed by how much PC is incorporated in the view.
 
Nixxy

I have never read of Kowa Genesis having rolling balls or globes and I agree that if you want alpha level correction of CA but at well below alpha prices, then Kowa's Genesises (Genesi?) are the way to go. If you want an incremental step better than Genesis then Zeiss's FL 8x32 is top dog and nice and bright with it.

Lee
 
Never know I might give 'em a go. I do see the globe effect in some bins & one riflescope, yet that doesn't imply that I would see it in every bin alleged to possess RB.

http://www.opticstalk.com/anyone-used-the-kowa-genesis-105x44-prominar-xd_topic36884.html

I had a 10.5x44 Genesis for a while too, about 3 years ago. The glass is fantastic, within a natsazz of anything made, but I have a tendency to see the dreaded "rolling ball" view, and it was noticeable in my pair of Genesis. They are extremely well built too.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=287315

Sadly, as much as I wanted to like the Kowas, especially given their outstanding strengths – small size, light weight, smooth focusing knob etc, there was one important area where they fell woefully short for me. Their weird distortion when panning – i.e. the dreaded rolling ball – was marginally north of borderline acceptable for me. True, it’s only a tiny bit worse than Swarovski’s 8x32SV. But while I could easily see this weakness in the latter, it wasn’t bad enough to bother me and I could easily live with them considering their other outstanding attributes. As much as I tried, I could only live with the Kowas if I only looked at stationary objects.
-

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=226304
Your BFF Brocknrollin'ball: contemplating buying a bin that is known to cause "rolling ball," such as a Nikon HGL, SV EL, Kowa Genesis, etc.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=336311
Kowa Genesis 8x33: Troubador's Review - BirdForum
www.birdforum.net › ... › Binoculars › Kowa
Dec 11, 2016 - I found panning to be quite free from rolling ball despite it being reported by some, but I seem to be one of those relatively unaffected by RB so those who suffer from it should check for this.
--
Granted most are very old posts. Perhaps Kowa has tweaked their formula over the years. Hard to say w/o taking a peek.
 
Last edited:
Nix
That's really really weird this is the first I've head of rolling ball in a Kowa Of course I have always suspected Brock of living in his own private universe. I used my Kowas (still do some despite having the SF's) and have never seen Rolling Ball in either my 8.5s or my 10.5s and this from some one who if I was forced to look thru a pair of Swaro FLs would throw up my breakfast from last month. I see it in the Swaros the minute I pick one up except the 12X50s and they may have changed those in the last year or so. Im tempted to think that RB is from a miss wired brain which would apply to me but the whole concept seems strange.
Steve
 
Nix
That's really really weird this is the first I've head of rolling ball in a Kowa Of course I have always suspected Brock of living in his own private universe. I used my Kowas (still do some despite having the SF's) and have never seen Rolling Ball in either my 8.5s or my 10.5s and this from some one who if I was forced to look thru a pair of Swaro FLs would throw up my breakfast from last month. I see it in the Swaros the minute I pick one up except the 12X50s and they may have changed those in the last year or so. Im tempted to think that RB is from a miss wired brain which would apply to me but the whole concept seems strange.
Steve

When I first got my 10X42 EL SV I saw heavy rolling ball, but evidently I have learned to ignore it, because it either has disappeared or ceased to bother me. I'm not sure which. (I guess they are the same thing)
 
Last edited:
I don't know as I only copied part whilst providing the link. I suppose he meant the 8X33 were small/light in comparision to the larger size.
 
Kowa Genesis 8x33: Troubador's Review - BirdForum

Dec 11, 2016 - I found panning to be quite free from rolling ball despite it being reported by some, but I seem to be one of those relatively unaffected by RB so those who suffer from it should check for this.

Thats me you are quoting there Nixter so I had heard of this and since then have totally forgotten it. My apologies.

Still, RB is such a personal thing that the only way you can find out if you will see it in a particular model is to try them out for yourself, and if possible, not just for half an hour, as it seems some folks 'accommodate' to it and then don't see it anymore.

Lee
 
I feel that using binoculars without glasses/spectacles, or using a binocular that requires you to observe without (short eye relief) automatically makes the view more immersive. Light weight and easy handling also help achieve that sensation of having the device disappear before your eyes. The Swarovski 8x56 I tried at Birdfair gave me the most outstanding view I have yet experienced through a binocular but I was always conscious of its weight and bulk - same goes for large porros I have tried.
 
Patudo

I suspect you are right, but with my myopia i would not know where to point the bins: I'd be sunk - or at least, deeply immersed.
 
Warning! This thread is more than 6 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top