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Pentax PF100-ED question? (1 Viewer)

jeepnut

Active member
:scribe:

Does anyone have experience with the Pentax PF100-ED scope? How does it compare to the Pentax PF80-ED? The focal lengths are 630 and 504mm, respectively. The ratio of object lense diameter to focal length is identical for these scopes as is the exit pupil diameter for any given ocular (100/26 = 80/21).

The only difference that I see on paper is that the PF100-ED produces 25% greater magnification for any given ocular. If you look at 26 power for both scopes then the resulting exit pupil is 3.846mm for the 100 and 3.076 for the 80.

I have a PF80-ED with the model 70509 ocular (21x-63x, 24mm-8mm focal length) - I am quite happy with this scope. The PF100-ED is about twice the money - notwithstanding weight, does it perform that much better?

Thanx, jeepnut
 
I have the PF100ED and use it for very long range digiscoping. I am very pleased with the optical performance for photographing at up to 3 km. When purchasing, I was advised to compare it with the Swarovski 80 HD, and found little difference between them both in resolution and apparent brightness at mags up to x45. However at x60 the difference was spectacular. On a wet dull dark day in January, the 80mm Swarovski produced a comparatively dull image, while the Pentax looked as though it was a bright summer's day.

Unfortunately the Swavoski only had their zoom option available for testing at x60 while the Pentax had the fixed focus eyepiece. The zoom image on the Swarovski was soft and lacked resolution compared to the better detail produced by the Pentax fixed optic.

For digiscoping marine subjects at long ranges from shore, the extra brightness and photon collection capability made the 100mm optic the favoured choice.

The downside is the weight, but if you want to collect lots of light with a good quality image and you don't plan to drag it all over the world, the scope is great, really magnificent. However, I have just ordered the 65mm for portability, as I'm not as strong as I used to be.

hope this helps

possum.
 
Thank you for the reply.

you state:
"Unfortunately the Swavoski only had their zoom option available for testing at x60 while the Pentax had the fixed focus eyepiece. The zoom image on the Swarovski was soft and lacked resolution compared to the better detail produced by the Pentax fixed optic."

I am a bit confused, which scope had a fixed eypiece? of what power? which one had a zoom eyepiece, what is the focal length range or zoom capaicty of that ocular, and, what is it's model number?

thank you, happy trails,
jeepnut
 
Possum
Please can you show us some samples of your very long (few km) digiscoping results.
I am also looking for long range scoping, unfortunatelly it is difficult to find photos, the most of them are middle range birds shoots.
I am afraid about climatic/air conditions and influeces on digiscoping.
I'm planning to buy 65ED too. If you already have it, can you send it's ''results'' too ?
 
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The Swaro was tested with Swaro x30 fixed, their x45 fixed and x60 employing the Swaro x20-x60 zoom.

The Pentax was tested only with fixed eyepieces giving x30, x45 and x60.

Sorry, I don't know Swaro part numbers. The Pentax eyepieces are designated by their focal length, 10.5mm FL gives x60, 14mm FL gives x45, and 21mm FL gives x30 on the PF100.

I typically use x30 and x45 eyepieces for most of the long range digiscoping. These Pentax eyepieces are fabulous, big apertures, little or no vignetting and excellent image quality over entire aperture.

I sometimes use a low cost 32mm FL Super Plossl for digiscoping, giving about x20. These low cost astro eyepieces are pretty good but their image quality drops off outside the central 75% of the aperture.

I have used the x60 for digiscoping, but the depth of focus is too small, making focusing difficult. Strangely though, its great for close ranges, say 100 metres for those really up close shots!

There are two main advantages to using a 100mm aperture scope for digiscoping, one being its light gathering capability, thereby reducing exposure times, the other its higher resolution.

Astronomers will tell you that their refracting astro scopes are capable of an overall magnification of x60 per inch of aperture. These spotting scopes that we use have more optical elements in them to provide an upright image of the correct handedness, so one should expect to downgrade maximum potential magnification to say x50 per inch, ie. x2 per millimetre.

This means that a 100mm scope should be capable of a total magnification of around 200 times. An 80mm scope would be capable of 160 times, and a 65mm of 130 times.

The Pentax PF100 seems to run out of steam somewhere around 200 to 220 times, ie it won't let you use a x60 eyepiece at full zoom, leastways there is no more information available from the image.

Used at a maximum overall magnification of 180, the system works to my satisfaction, allowing me to use the x45 eyepiece over the full range of the zoom.

However the zoom on the CP4500 seems to produce a softer image near its maximum of x4, so I tend only to go to x3 if possible.

I only use manual focus on the CP4500 which cuts down on shutter lag as well as producing sharper images. Half cocking the shutter and using a remote manual cable seems pretty fool-proof.

I also use a 6-24 zoom rifle scope as a view finder; target designation and location is a major difficulty. Using a long range rifle scope mounted along side the PF100 means that target acquisition is trivial. You can set the rifle scope to minimum zoom giving a huge FOV, and lock onto the target with the rifle scope's crosshairs.

The main problems of long range digiscoping for me are poor atmospheric tranmission caused by haze and mistiness, as well as perturbations to the refractive index of the air due to wind and thermal convection currents.

Haze and mist are just problems to live with and overcome, but convection currents disturbing the air can be minimzed.

As I am trying to ID sharks by their fins, the majority of the optical path is over the sea. The land heats up quickly compared to the sea's surface, and therefore most thermal distortions are present in that part of the optical path that traverses the land. Consequently photographing from the cliff edge produces more consistant images with less defocusing due to thermal effects.

Wind disturbances are generally less troublesome as often sharks bask during periods of tranquil heat, usually when there is little or no wind. Also, having a large 100mm aperture minimises exposure times and thereby minimises the cumulative effects or short term compressions and rarefaction in the air.

My orginal design requirement was to achieve a resolution of 2mm at 500 meteres, and this system meets that. Exposure times of around 3milliseconds or less are routine at ISO 100 under reasonable conditions.

Remaining problems are lack of co-operation from the sharks, they don't seem to appreciate that shooting into the sun is difficult. The system is very heavy, the scopes are mounted on a Manfrotto 501 head and 055 tripod.

Here are 3 images.
The Oystercatcher was at 130+ metres on a dull day, exposure time 23msec.
Dorsal fin and snout, shot into the sun, 3000metres, 2.5milliseconds.
Dorsal fin, 1000 metres, 3milliseconds.

Just got the 65mm yesterday, images are looking very good. With all three Pentax eyepieces there is little or no vignetting. Focus snaps in very sharply, though it might seem a trifle fast, it's more sensitive than the 100mm scope.

Hope this helps

possum
 

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jeepnut said:
:scribe:

Does anyone have experience with the Pentax PF100-ED scope? How does it compare to the Pentax PF80-ED? The focal lengths are 630 and 504mm, respectively. The ratio of object lense diameter to focal length is identical for these scopes as is the exit pupil diameter for any given ocular (100/26 = 80/21).

The only difference that I see on paper is that the PF100-ED produces 25% greater magnification for any given ocular. If you look at 26 power for both scopes then the resulting exit pupil is 3.846mm for the 100 and 3.076 for the 80.

I have a PF80-ED with the model 70509 ocular (21x-63x, 24mm-8mm focal length) - I am quite happy with this scope. The PF100-ED is about twice the money - notwithstanding weight, does it perform that much better?

Thanx, jeepnut

Hi- I just got both the 80mm and the 100mm Pentax scopes to review so after I spend some time in the field with both side by side, I'll let you know my thoughts. TL
 
dickiebird said:
Hi- I just got both the 80mm and the 100mm Pentax scopes to review so after I spend some time in the field with both side by side, I'll let you know my thoughts. TL


Tom,

Have you tried the Pentax SMC WP Zoom (8-24) in the Pentax scopes? Since you weren't crazy about the XF zoom, I'd be interested in your observations. I assume Pentax ships the newer 8-24 zoom with the test scopes.

Thanks!

John
 
Pentax Scope Comparisons

I used an 80mm Pentax w/the zoom eyepiece for a couple of years (it was stolen) and was happy with it and with my comparisons to other high end scopes owned by other birders.
I plan to replace it with the 65mm Pentax for ease in hiking on group birding
plus the Pentax 100mm for staying close to the van and photos. The 80 was a bit much for hiking.
Possums comments are very interesting
but I would like to know if you folks are all comparing the
same series of eyepieces
of which I've seen 3 types noted
XL 1.25 in of various powers 65 degree waterproof
XW 1.25 in same, replacing? XL 70 degree waterproof
XF 1.25 in lesser quality non-waterproof, cheaper
marketed with 65mm scope

Also, are any of you using "hold & shoot" digital cameras with these or or are you using the adaptor?
San Francisco birders are hand holding various AF digital cameras to the eyepiece, usually of Nikon 60 ED III scope and getting good photos.

Having purchased the zoom 'package' originally I will buy fixed lenses in future.
The Worldtwitch site equipment listing page has links to the Pentax pdf spec sheets on the 80 and the 100, the only eyepiece listing/comparison I've seen, haven't found the route to these on the Pentax website yet or for the 65. My main task now is to identify a couple of eyepieces to start with.
Thanks
 
Pentax 100mm

Very interesting.
How are you mounting the rifle scope? To the Pentax or the tripod? Thanks
Steve Monrad


possum said:
The Swaro was tested with Swaro x30 fixed, their x45 fixed and x60 employing the Swaro x20-x60 zoom.

The Pentax was tested only with fixed eyepieces giving x30, x45 and x60.

Sorry, I don't know Swaro part numbers. The Pentax eyepieces are designated by their focal length, 10.5mm FL gives x60, 14mm FL gives x45, and 21mm FL gives x30 on the PF100.

I typically use x30 and x45 eyepieces for most of the long range digiscoping. These Pentax eyepieces are fabulous, big apertures, little or no vignetting and excellent image quality over entire aperture.

I sometimes use a low cost 32mm FL Super Plossl for digiscoping, giving about x20. These low cost astro eyepieces are pretty good but their image quality drops off outside the central 75% of the aperture.

I have used the x60 for digiscoping, but the depth of focus is too small, making focusing difficult. Strangely though, its great for close ranges, say 100 metres for those really up close shots!

There are two main advantages to using a 100mm aperture scope for digiscoping, one being its light gathering capability, thereby reducing exposure times, the other its higher resolution.

Astronomers will tell you that their refracting astro scopes are capable of an overall magnification of x60 per inch of aperture. These spotting scopes that we use have more optical elements in them to provide an upright image of the correct handedness, so one should expect to downgrade maximum potential magnification to say x50 per inch, ie. x2 per millimetre.

This means that a 100mm scope should be capable of a total magnification of around 200 times. An 80mm scope would be capable of 160 times, and a 65mm of 130 times.

The Pentax PF100 seems to run out of steam somewhere around 200 to 220 times, ie it won't let you use a x60 eyepiece at full zoom, leastways there is no more information available from the image.

Used at a maximum overall magnification of 180, the system works to my satisfaction, allowing me to use the x45 eyepiece over the full range of the zoom.

However the zoom on the CP4500 seems to produce a softer image near its maximum of x4, so I tend only to go to x3 if possible.

I only use manual focus on the CP4500 which cuts down on shutter lag as well as producing sharper images. Half cocking the shutter and using a remote manual cable seems pretty fool-proof.

I also use a 6-24 zoom rifle scope as a view finder; target designation and location is a major difficulty. Using a long range rifle scope mounted along side the PF100 means that target acquisition is trivial. You can set the rifle scope to minimum zoom giving a huge FOV, and lock onto the target with the rifle scope's crosshairs.

The main problems of long range digiscoping for me are poor atmospheric tranmission caused by haze and mistiness, as well as perturbations to the refractive index of the air due to wind and thermal convection currents.

Haze and mist are just problems to live with and overcome, but convection currents disturbing the air can be minimzed.

As I am trying to ID sharks by their fins, the majority of the optical path is over the sea. The land heats up quickly compared to the sea's surface, and therefore most thermal distortions are present in that part of the optical path that traverses the land. Consequently photographing from the cliff edge produces more consistant images with less defocusing due to thermal effects.

Wind disturbances are generally less troublesome as often sharks bask during periods of tranquil heat, usually when there is little or no wind. Also, having a large 100mm aperture minimises exposure times and thereby minimises the cumulative effects or short term compressions and rarefaction in the air.

My orginal design requirement was to achieve a resolution of 2mm at 500 meteres, and this system meets that. Exposure times of around 3milliseconds or less are routine at ISO 100 under reasonable conditions.

Remaining problems are lack of co-operation from the sharks, they don't seem to appreciate that shooting into the sun is difficult. The system is very heavy, the scopes are mounted on a Manfrotto 501 head and 055 tripod.

Here are 3 images.
The Oystercatcher was at 130+ metres on a dull day, exposure time 23msec.
Dorsal fin and snout, shot into the sun, 3000metres, 2.5milliseconds.
Dorsal fin, 1000 metres, 3milliseconds.

Just got the 65mm yesterday, images are looking very good. With all three Pentax eyepieces there is little or no vignetting. Focus snaps in very sharply, though it might seem a trifle fast, it's more sensitive than the 100mm scope.

Hope this helps

possum
 
Pentax 100mm digiscoping

Thomas,
Which parts of your setup are you interested in selling?
I'm about to buy a Pentax 100mm scope to replace my
80mm which was stolen.
Steve Monrad

Thomas Petty said:
Here are a few shots taken with the pf100ed and a Nikon 4500.
http://www.pbase.com/image/35348468
http://www.pbase.com/image/32389660
http://www.pbase.com/image/27380717
http://www.pbase.com/image/27380682
http://www.pbase.com/image/26506427
They were all taken with the xl28mm eyepiece and my custum made adaptor.
PS, I'm looking to sell my digiscoping gear since I've made the move to DSLR.
Dan
 
The rifle scope and Pentax are both fitted to an intermediate ali plate.

The scope is dowelled and bolted to the thick plate, and the rifle scope is mounted on a very long precision dovetail. This too is bolted to the plate, with its optical axis parallel to the Pentax. The long dovetail allows the riflescope to be moved back and forth for best operating position ( it has 75mm eyerelief)

I use a long range Target Riflescope which has a very fine crosshair. I started with a X4 .22 air rifle scope, but the crosshairs are so thick as to obscure the target.

The intermediate plate has a Manfrotton 501Pl plate mounted on its underside and attaches to the 501 head.

All the parts are precision made and initial collimation was pretty spot on. Proper alignment is made by selecting a distant fixed target in the Pentax and zoom in the camera, adjusting the mechanics and then the crosshairs on the rifle scope for perfect alignment.

The whole thing is over engineered and can be trucked around without misalignment.

Over both scope I have a Canon GM/XM2 video camera collimated to the Pentax. The video contolled by a boom remote.

The Target riflescope zooms to x24, but if I were buying a new one, I would only choose one to X16.

The eyepieces for the Pentax are XL series and have an M52x3P thread(from memory) which is the eyerelief adjustment thread. I use a two part adapter, one part screwing to this thread, the other a slide fit locked by three finger screws. The second part has a 58mmx0.75 thread and a reducer taking it to any other size, eg 28mm for the CP4500.

The Pentax 65 is used hand held for digiscoping employing the above adapter.
Focusing with the left thumb and adjusting the camera with the right hand, it's like oldtimes; feels just like an SLR with manual focus telephoto.

The 65 is really very good, its light, well made and produces excellent results.

Hope this helps

possum
 
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Pentax scope photography

Very impressive. Sounds like a serious setup for a serious project.
I'm researching these scopes because my Pentax 80mm was stolen on a trip in Nicaragua & I'm replacing it with the 65mm or 100mm or both.
Our ornithology instructor in San Francisco turns out excellent digital bird photos by getting the bird in his
angled Nikon 60mm scope on a tripod, then hand holding a pocket
autofocus Olympus digital camera to the eyepiece and taking several shots.
These are published at

http://fog.ccsf.cc.ca.us/~jmorlan/gallery.htm

The field trips involve a lot a walking and students looking through the scope.

The point is you can bird normally and then get decent pictures without a fixed adaptor or camera.
The trick is to match the outside diameter of the camera with the inside of the eypiece housing.
The 80mm was too heavy for hiking so I ordered an angled 65mm for that stuff and then will either get another 80mm or 100mm for working in one place by myself. I'm switching to the XW fixed eyepieces. The zoom I lost was good but not at higher powers.
The riflescope setup is interesting because we look at a lot of birds in the ocean from one place, without references to locate them in the higher powers.

Thanks, Steve


possum said:
The rifle scope and Pentax are both fitted to an intermediate ali plate.

The scope is dowelled and bolted to the thick plate, and the rifle scope is mounted on a very long precision dovetail. This too is bolted to the plate, with its optical axis parallel to the Pentax. The long dovetail allows the riflescope to be moved back and forth for best operating position ( it has 75mm eyerelief)

I use a long range Target Riflescope which has a very fine crosshair. I started with a X4 .22 air rifle scope, but the crosshairs are so thick as to obscure the target.

The intermediate plate has a Manfrotton 501Pl plate mounted on its underside and attaches to the 501 head.

All the parts are precision made and initial collimation was pretty spot on. Proper alignment is made by selecting a distant fixed target in the Pentax and zoom in the camera, adjusting the mechanics and then the crosshairs on the rifle scope for perfect alignment.

The whole thing is over engineered and can be trucked around without misalignment.

Over both scope I have a Canon GM/XM2 video camera collimated to the Pentax. The video contolled by a boom remote.

The Target riflescope zooms to x24, but if I were buying a new one, I would only choose one to X16.

The eyepieces for the Pentax are XL series and have an M52x3P thread(from memory) which is the eyerelief adjustment thread. I use a two part adapter, one part screwing to this thread, the other a slide fit locked by three finger screws. The second part has a 58mmx0.75 thread and a reducer taking it to any other size, eg 28mm for the CP4500.

The Pentax 65 is used hand held for digiscoping employing the above adapter.
Focusing with the left thumb and adjusting the camera with the right hand, it's like oldtimes; feels just like an SLR with manual focus telephoto.

The 65 is really very good, its light, well made and produces excellent results.

Hope this helps

possum
 
Most of my observations are for basking sharks and cetaceans. Ranges can be from 50 metres to a few nautical miles. With multiple observation binoculars and telescopes in simultaneous operation, the most useful gadget is to have a bearing bezel mounted on each instrument.

With multiple targets simultaneously present, defining, describing and discussing a particular individual sighting is made possible by specifying bearing and range.

In the absence of an original fitting, I've found that the centre 360 degree protractor taken from a Portland Plotter, normally used for navigation, provides a suitable bezel which can bored out to size and be mounted to the fixed head of the tripod. By using a friction clamping force, the bezel can be rotated for alignment to True or magnetic bearing. A simple pointer fitted to the moving/panning head completes the arrangement.


possum
 
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