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2017 Western Palearctic Big Year (1 Viewer)

Jos is speaking of actually having two British passports, not dual nationality. I just Googled it and it seems that with permission it's possible. Some businessmen need the facility for when one passport is away awaiting a visa so they can still travel on the other.

Andy

Also possible in Ireland apparently but it seems to require a request from your workplace plus proof of extensive travel for work.
Much easier to have been born in the US to British citizens and then live in Ireland from an early age like that friend of mine. Then choose your passport which suits best where you're travelling to ;-)

Good luck to those WP listers.
 
Good luck to them, and looking forward to (hopefully) follow their adventures next year!

In WP listing, perhaps crucial is how much budget one has, and how many long-distance air trips to catch rarities one can afford. Hopefully they counted it in advance - or are so rich that don't care. ;) Anyway, regular species would make already a great adventure.

Single most problematic regular might be connecting with the last remaining Siberian Crane during his stopover in Volga delta.

Jos, really good to hear you are well! Please, do not read the paragraph below, OK?

Algerian nuthatch is possible, at least one man seen it this year and lived to post pictures on Observado. One can fly from Algiers to Jijel, and from there it is under 2 h drive to Mount Babor. Algerian government apparently confiscates binoculars on entry, but not moderate telephoto lenses. If one keeps head down, and the nuthatch behaves like Corsican and Kruper's species, one could do it during light hours in a single day. But not the plan I would announce on the internet in advance.
 
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In WP listing, perhaps crucial is how much budget one has, and how many long-distance air trips to catch rarities one can afford. Hopefully they counted it in advance - or are so rich that don't care. ;) .

Surely this is the single greatest factor in any attempt of this kind for any region. Even doing a year list in the UK will cost a lot of money!

Andy
 
When I initially saw this thread I thought for sure John Wiegel was going for the WP record, after conquering Australia and the ABA.
 
Again however, if Iran is included in the WP, it is not the first breeding record as per the title.

Why would Iran be included, I'd like to know how the boundaries are suggested and decided?

The 'Wallacean' region in Asia, the obvious transition zone where birds become more obviously Australasian rather than Asian is a good idea but does this apply to Iran, does it apply anywhere?

If the most abundant birds are more typically Asian or African, it can't be part of the WP can it? Perhaps we need a transition zone like Wallacea?




A
 
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Why would Iran be included, I'd like to know how the boundaries are suggested and decided?

Because, with the exception of the far south-east (east of Bandar Abbas), the species present (birds, mammals, plants, etc) are essentially Western Palearctic. Travel in the mountains of northern Iran fro example and I think there is not a single non-WP species present - Blue Tits, Blackbirds, Red-breasted Flycatchers, Great Spotted Woodpeckers, etc etc in the woodland, mountain species basically the same as the Caucasus Mountains, etc.
 
Because, with the exception of the far south-east (east of Bandar Abbas), the species present (birds, mammals, plants, etc) are essentially Western Palearctic. Travel in the mountains of northern Iran fro example and I think there is not a single non-WP species present - Blue Tits, Blackbirds, Red-breasted Flycatchers, Great Spotted Woodpeckers, etc etc in the woodland, mountain species basically the same as the Caucasus Mountains, etc.

I think this could run and run as ever increasing boundaries are set. The World remains the World and cannot have it's boundaries altered. The WP is potentially susceptible to change at any time?

What's the history of the ABA region, has it remained stable and unaltered for the various record attempts?


A
 
Note the border as followed by Cramp et al is not strictly by any faunal criteria as it veers westward to follow the Iranian border then cuts east again to follow the Caspian before going north through part of Kazakhstan. Thus, in the southern area, including the Arabian Peninsula, it is an arbitrary line which has relatively little relevance to the actual species on the ground.
 

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I think this could run and run as ever increasing boundaries are set. The World remains the World and cannot have it's boundaries altered. The WP is potentially susceptible to change at any time?

Who says they can't be altered? They are not political borders, but edges of biological zones - there is no logic to draw this line down a convenient political border (ie Iran-Iraq) if it bears no real relevance to realities on the ground.

There are 'relatively good' natural borders to the WP - the Ural mountains to the north for example. The vast bulk of Iran is overwhelmingly Western Palearctic in nature, its neighbour Pakistan is overwhelmingly Oriental. The area south-east of Bandar Abbas shares much in common with the Oriental Region, the rest of the country does not - seems a more logical place to be thinking about placing the arbitrary line.
 
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Who says they can't be altered? They are not political borders, but edges of biological zones - they is no logic to draw this line down a convenient political border (ie Iran-Iraq) if it bears no real relevance to realities on the ground.

Unless you add another planet 'the World is the World' referred to global big years I defy anyone to alter that boundary

There are 'relatively good' natural borders to the WP - the Ural mountains to the north for example. The vast bulk of Iran is overwhelmingly Western Palearctic in nature, its neighbour Pakistan is overwhelmingly Oriental. The area south-east of Bandar Abbas shares much in common with the Oriental Region, the rest of the country does not - seems a more logical place to be thinking about placing the arbitrary line.

As I said, some sort of buffer zone similar to Wallacea may be sensible?


A
 
Regarding the two days in mainland Portugal for the C category species, they should take to account that several species that are not yet C category, are apparently on the road to become established so an insurance tick is perhaps a good idea.
 
But if they did add Iran, would it get them any extra species that are definite WPal origin, or would they just be gaining some marginal Oriental species? If so, then why not poach another 100 km yet further and add some more . . and then another 100 km for more again . . . Oh, and then let's just include China while we're at it . . .

No biogeographical region can ever have a really hard boundary (there's always something that will cross it), so you might as well stick to a widely-used, even if imperfect, artificial boundary.
 
As I said, some sort of buffer zone similar to Wallacea may have to be used?


Not really required, incorporating Iran as far as Bandar Abbas would mean, approximately, the part of Iran visible in the WP map in the preceding post thus becoming part of the WP. Plus or minus, this does mark a true transition.

No biogeographical region can ever have a really hard boundary (there's always something that will cross it), so you might as well stick to a widely-used, even if imperfect, artificial boundary.

Agreed, there will always be overlaps and zones of transition between the zones, but the exclusion of Iran is about as logical as excluding my back garden (as I watch European Robins, Bullfinches and Long-tailed Tits bouncing about). I would not describe the boundary following the Iran-Iraq border as 'imperfect', but simply as incorrect in this instance.
 
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Who says they can't be altered? They are not political borders, but edges of biological zones - there is no logic to draw this line down a convenient political border (ie Iran-Iraq) if it bears no real relevance to realities on the ground.

There are 'relatively good' natural borders to the WP - the Ural mountains to the north for example. The vast bulk of Iran is overwhelmingly Western Palearctic in nature, its neighbour Pakistan is overwhelmingly Oriental. The area south-east of Bandar Abbas shares much in common with the Oriental Region, the rest of the country does not - seems a more logical place to be thinking about placing the arbitrary line.

Exactly. I think some work has been done on a possible boundary through Iran, in the same way as the (northern) Sahara and the Arabian peninsular (note the Afro-tropical enclaves on the southern margin). I haven't got any links to hand but the work is out there somewhere I think.

cheers, alan
 
But if they did add Iran, would it get them any extra species that are definite WPal origin, or would they just be gaining some marginal Oriental species?

No they wouldn't, and unless south-east of Bandar Abbas, no marginal Oriental species either ...this however is supportive of the argument that Iran should be incorporated in the Western Palearctic - the species are WP not Oriental.

I wasn't saying these year-listers should necessarily include Iran, that is rather irrelevant, but that Iran should be included in the WP.

The new Handbook of Western Palearctic Birds (Shiriahi & Svensson) will define Iran as part of the WP anyhow, so I guess I am not alone in these thoughts.
 
The new Handbook of Western Palearctic Birds (Shiriahi & Svensson) will define Iran as part of the WP anyhow, so I guess I am not alone in these thoughts.

And herein lies the problem with big years such as this, it's becoming almost like the various taxonomic camps, who counts what and where.

Does it REALLY matter to anyone anyway apart from year listers and the like? It's just a list, a birder will enjoy seeing the stuff in Iran regardless of which zone it's alloted to?


A
 
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