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Southern African Forum (2 Viewers)

Sal said:
I don't know Alan, but is it possible that with the huge expanse of Kruger Park just over the river from you, the concentration of birdlife is reduced because there is so much more space for territory? Maybe UK birds have smaller territories for this reason? Maybe they have to work (ie sing) harder to retain their territories?
Click to expand...

Perhaps a valid point, Sal. Many British Birds - for example, robin, blackbird, thrush, sparrow, dunnock, chaffinch, greenfinch, blue tit, great tit, coal tit etc. have a territory probably not much bigger than the average garden. Here on the Highveld I once paced out the distance between calling Rufous-naped Larks. The average distance was close to 150m (500 feet), which must approximate the territorial diameter of that bird in that particular area. This is quite large, and if other birds are similarly placed, then undoubtedly this would diminish the dawn chorus.
A few of our birds may have garden-sized territories - Cape Robin-chat, Crested Barbet, Karoo Thrush for example - but many more may be intermittent visitors rather than residents. It is worth noting that the European Robin, blackbird, chaffinch and so on sing more loudly than our local equivalents.

It might also be worth investigating the number of potential predators in each country....UK has cats, grey squirrels, kestrels, sparrowhawks, pine martens etc, while SA has cats, genets, mongoose, snakes, African Harrier Hawks, Coucals, Vervet monkeys, three kestrels, several small falcons, sparrowhawks etc. Perhaps in SA it's better to keep your head down.

Thanks for that interesting question, Allan - let's hope we get some interesting replies.

I've attached pics of two of the protagonists.

Best wishes,
Dave Kennedy
 

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  • Cape Robin-chat - Sedgefield, Western Cape, 31st Oct 2005.jpg
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Anyway, all that is a preamble to say that for the last week I have had my commuting misery lightened by hearing the dawn chorus in its full glory, with the robins, blackbirds, thrushes etc all singing their little hearts out.

One thing that has struck me is the lack of an equivalent in our place in South Africa (Marloth Park, adjacent to the Kruger). Why do you think it is so quiet in comparison, considering that there are many more species in SA? Is it just a feature of the lowveld, or is it all over SA? (The francolin that seems determined to wake up every living thing in a 10 Km radius is an exception!)

Allan[/quote]

Allan,
Having lived in both places (and as far as I can remember) the UK birds are more vocal, and I agree with Sal and Dave that with the smaller areas competition is fierce to be heard for territorial and mating reasons. As you know out here space is not really an issue, and as Dave said, we have far more predators waiting to pounce on the unsuspecting singing bird.
Your house is a bit away from the River in mixed bushveld, maybe when you are here in a few weeks you should try early in the morning going to the camping/caravan park area along the River (it will be quiet with few if any campers) where the Riverine Forest is more dense, it is much noiser there, and more diverse.
Having said all of that, the Southern Boubou's callling to each other each morning are very loud when you are still trying to sleep!

I also remember those mornings......... no thanks...I will stay here....
(just over 3 weeks)
 
Dave Kennedy said:
It might also be worth investigating the number of potential predators in each country....UK has cats, grey squirrels, kestrels, sparrowhawks, pine martens etc, while SA has cats, genets, mongoose, snakes, African Harrier Hawks, Coucals, Vervet monkeys, three kestrels, several small falcons, sparrowhawks etc. Perhaps in SA it's better to keep your head down.

Best wishes,
Dave Kennedy
Click to expand...

Yes Dave, good point - combining all these factors must surely have an effect.
 
Martin Hobbs said:
Your house is a bit away from the River in mixed bushveld, maybe when you are here in a few weeks you should try early in the morning going to the camping/caravan park area along the River (it will be quiet with few if any campers) where the Riverine Forest is more dense, it is much noiser there, and more diverse.
Click to expand...

And please let us know what you discover!
 
I would also think it could be to do with the time of year. I haven't done an exact study, but from what I've gathered is that Allan is not there in the breeding season. Our birds are most vocal in the breeding season. For instance, in my neck of the woods, the Olive Thrush (whatever its new name may be) starts the dawn chorus at around 03:30; then around 05:00 once it's a bit lighter, the rest start chiming in. [I really enjoy trying to pick out who starts when.] Outside the breeding season the Olive Thrush's (sci talk on) gonads recede (sci talk off) and you don't hear him singing until the next breeding season.
 
Thank you Alan for that scientific p(eek!)into the gonadial activities of the Olive Thrush. I didn't know that and its interesting; but of course when you think of the noise they make in the spring and early summer, once this stops and stops in other species too, it would make a difference. But what about the fact that Allan is comparing Marloth with British birds in the winter, when one assumes that gonadial activity is pretty well frozen (well, this winter, anyway from what I can gather); yet the UK dawn chorus is louder . . . .
 
It seems I have started a little sing-song here!

There are some very relevant points here. Predation may well be important. The population density is also a lot lower in Marloth than in the UK. This may be due to food sources being scarcer in SA.

Re the breeding season we haven't yet been out when that is in full flow in SA, but there again as Sal points out it is not that season here yet. In fact at this time of year the territorial instincts of a lot of species are absent - we regularly get up to 6 Robins in the garden at one time without a single fight or display - unthinkable in our summer.

With the location I have been at the Croc river gate into the Kruger quite a few days at dawn (even more so lately with the new "improved" entry queuing system), and yes there is more song.

What about other locations in SA? Is there more of a chorus in Capetown for example?

I feel some more research coming on - in 3 1/2 weeks!

Allan
 
Sal ;)

It was the late Tony Harris who gave me that little tidbit when I asked about the sudden cessation of the Olive Thrush singing during Feb. What's also quite interesting on a similar note :))) is that the Cape Robins in my garden are very quiet when they are breeding. During the winter, they are the most vocal birds in the chorus.

Allan, as to other venues, our forest birds also kick up quite a din during chorus time. There, not due to numerical density, but rather due to the acoustics of the valleys in which the forests occur and the birds' really piercing calls.

Come to think of it, don't our wide open spaces make the chorus less obvious?
 
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Allan Hobbs said:
Here is a link to a website where you can hear a recording of the UK dawn chorus.
It's not the best, but it's the only one I could find on a quick search
Allan
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Thanks for that, Allan, the recording's great. Only birds I could recognise were a blackbird and the pheasant. Any idea who else is there? I'd be interested to know.

Best wishes,
Dave
 
Thanks for the link Allan, it is pretty loud,definitely more concentrated than I usually hear here. Woo hoo - three and a half weeks huh? My spies tell me that this is going to be a frozen feb in UK,so you'll be extra glad to get out here, heat or no heat!

Alan the Cape Robin -Chat that has its territory right outside my verandah has been very noisy until this month. I havent even heard it recently. Perhaps it's a late developer. . . . But it does have a mate, I've seen them both.
Your point about the wide open spaces is very valid I think. There is far more for the dawn chorus to bounce off in much of the UK.
 
I agree with Alan (with one L) about the Olive Thrush, in our garden it is the last call in the evening and the first call in the morning, although it is not quite as vocal at the moment as over the past two months.
Regarding the open spaces, if you think of the Larks singing from their perches, they can be heard from quite a distance away, and we won't even start with the Franklins!
Regarding the forests, most of the time I have spent in forests in the St. Lucia or Kosi Bay areas it is the call that alerts me to the presence of the bird rather than visually spotting it first. Even though I can hear it, sometimes I cannot spot it before my neck says enough! Surely forest birds must be louder and call for longer for communictaion when visual contact must be more difficult? If you consider how big a Trumpeter Hornbill is why would such a large bird have to have such a loud screaming call if it wasn't for the fact that it lives in a visually difficult envoronment?
When I stated that the British birds are louder I was thinking of suburbia, however I can attest that being in a forest as it begins to get light is a stunning cacophony of sound that gives me goose-pimples every time I hear it. There is so much singing that you just don't know where to look first...

Martin
 
Dave Kennedy said:
Thanks for that, Allan, the recording's great. Only birds I could recognise were a blackbird and the pheasant. Any idea who else is there? I'd be interested to know.

Best wishes,
Dave
Click to expand...

Hi Dave,
I'm not really the best person to ask on bird calls, but I think there are Robin, Starling, House Sparrow, Chaffinch and a woodpigeon.

It looks as if the difference we noticed was more a reflection of the two different habitats. I must experience the SA forest more. We have been to St Lucia, but my sons insisted we actually go to Hluhluwe three times, rather than explore the St Lucia area more. I think I now have an excuse to visit there again!

Three weeks tomorrow. And Sal, it is snowing heavily here at the moment. We have about 5cm so far, could be up to 13cm by the morning. Getting to work may be a problem;)

Allan
 
Martin Hobbs said:
Regarding the forests, most of the time I have spent in forests in the St. Lucia or Kosi Bay areas it is the call that alerts me to the presence of the bird rather than visually spotting it first. Even though I can hear it, sometimes I cannot spot it before my neck says enough! Surely forest birds must be louder and call for longer for communictaion when visual contact must be more difficult? If you consider how big a Trumpeter Hornbill is why would such a large bird have to have such a loud screaming call if it wasn't for the fact that it lives in a visually difficult envoronment?
When I stated that the British birds are louder I was thinking of suburbia, however I can attest that being in a forest as it begins to get light is a stunning cacophony of sound that gives me goose-pimples every time I hear it. There is so much singing that you just don't know where to look first...

Martin
Click to expand...

Good point Martin regarding the difficulty of visual contact in thick forest. I wonder if part of the Trumpeter Hornbill's loud noise is not as a result of resonance in the casque, which may have other functions such as recognition, sexual attraction (takes all sorts!) or strengthening of the beak, but because it is there, it enhances the sound. It could have been noisier than veld birds without being THAT noisy I think.
One day, when I get over to England, I shall go and stand in an English forest at dawn . . . .
 
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Allan Hobbs said:
Hi Dave,
I'm not really the best person to ask on bird calls, but I think there are Robin, Starling, House Sparrow, Chaffinch and a woodpigeon.
Allan
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, Allan, I'll go back and have another listen. I'm hoping to visit UK in late March, so I'll try to get up early at least once to see what I can hear!

Best wishes,
Dave
 
Sal said:
Oh dear Allan, you will have to sit at home and watch boring old birds . . . .
Click to expand...

Funny you should say that - guess what I did this morning ;)

We had 30 cm of snow last night and everything has ground to a halt. More snow and temperatures of -5 forecast tonight. 3 weeks to go then Sun and warmth.

Dave,
where are you visiting in March?

Allan
 
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I was just thinking, this is the "Your Local Patch" thread.

I live 10,000Km away - how local is that :eek!:

Allan

ps - it does feel like home though
 
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