Best 10x at $300-$500 (1 Viewer)

bh46118 said:

You aren't going to find what you want in a mid priced roof. At least it doesn't seem like it to me. It's either gonna be Porro or Swaro. Sorry, but that silly rhyme just popped into my head. ||

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That will work. Kinda catchy,has got a good ring to it. : )
Bryce...

jremmons said:

Bryce,

You mentioned comparing the regular Vipers but did you compare with the Viper HD series? I looked side-by-side in the field between the 8x32 Viper HD and my coworker's 8x32 Pentax ED and I didn't find either of the views superior to the other (similar centerfield sharpness, sweet-spot size, color representation, etc.) but did prefer some of the handling aspects of the Viper (namely design and tension of the focus knob). I've compared the Viper HD and the Viper (in 8x32 format) and found the HD to be sharper and a bit better at handling CA throughout the field.


Best,
Justin

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Yes Justin, I posted (first hand) and also owning the regular version!
Bryce...

Bryce,

It seems that your and my eyes see things quite differently, so I will not argue that you found the view in the Pentax ED superior. I will note that Allbinos found the Viper HD to have higher transmission, reduced coma, and less edge "blur" than the Pentax ED, which displayed less astigmatism and slightly less CA. I think it just depends on which aberrations are more bothersome to your eyes. Either way, both will provide great performance, but the Viper HD is available at about 2/3rd the price.

Happy birding,
Justin

Just a quick update. In the last few weeks I've tried:

Pentax DCF CS 10x42 (see above). Nice, but not enough ER, despite the 18mm rating.

Minox BVII 10x42 (2 pair). I had high hopes for these, and they are indeed well-built in terms of the frame, and good looking. Unfortunately they were a huge disappointment. The first pair had a tube that simply wouldn't focus sharply (internal lens element alignment off, maybe?), and the second pair had horrible diopter drift. I'd set the diopter, and as long as focusing was near-to-far it worked fine, but backing off (far-to-near), the right tube was very soft. I'm guessing a little lash in the diopter linkage? I can't see where anyone had this issue, so it may be a bad batch (serial #s were close). When it could be made to focus the image was fairly sharp (at the level of the Endeavors or a step up).

Vixen Foresta CF 10x42 (porro). Nice binocular, well-built and feels good in hand. Unfortunately the listed 20mm ER is reduced to about 12-13mm because the outer ocular element is so deeply recessed in the housing. Very nice image, though. Easily the sharpest of all the 10x I've tried except for the McKinleys. Anyone looking for a 10x42 who doesn't wear glasses should give these a spin.

Of course, the usual disclaimer: these are all based on a sample of one (or in the case of the Minox, two).

When I can get to it, these are ones I'd like to try next:

Eagle Optics Ranger 10x50
Opticon Discovery WP PC 10x50
Leupold BX-2 Acadia 10x50 (maybe; reviews are mixed)

or for a little more money:

Opticron Verano BGA HD 10x42
Zen Ray Prime HD 10x42 (if I feel like taking a chance with the spotty QC and customer service)

All of the above were chosen based mostly on rated ER of 19-22mm.

Any further advice from those of you who have used the five above and could make a comparison would be appreciated (I've read the Zen thread already).

If your willing to spend the extra skip straight to the good stuff IMO. Have you tried the Viper HD 10x42? No concerns of spotty QC or service there!

I suppose I could look at the Viper 10x50. The 10x42 doesn't have enough ER.

eitanaltman said:

If your willing to spend the extra skip straight to the good stuff IMO. Have you tried the Viper HD 10x42? No concerns of spotty QC or service there!

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bh46118 said:

You aren't going to find what you want in a mid priced roof. At least it doesn't seem like it to me. It's either gonna be Porro or Swaro. Sorry, but that silly rhyme just popped into my head.

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:t:

Paul,

There are 39 reviews of the Eagle Optics 10 x 50 Ranger on their website. Most of them rate them as excellent. Did you read them? It has 19.5 ER but a rather narrow FOV. One of the reviews on 3/29/2010 by a glasses wearer has good things to say about it's eye relief while wearing glasses.

And they are on sale! And Eagle Optics has a no fault 30 day right of return for any reason. You can try it for 30 days at no risk. Check it out on their website or ask them about it.

http://www.eagleoptics.com/binoculars/eagle-optics/eagle-optics-ranger-10x50-binocular

Bob

Bob: Those may be the next pair I try, but as you point out, they have a pretty narrow FOV. I wish I knew a little more about the Leupolds or the Discoverys, which have 332' and 345' @ 1K yards, respectively.

ceasar said:

Paul,

There are 39 reviews of the Eagle Optics 10 x 50 Ranger on their website. Most of them rate them as excellent. Did you read them? It has 19.5 ER but a rather narrow FOV.
Bob

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I'm going to do a little thread crossover here, in case someone in the future is searching for a 10x to compliment their 7-8x as I am.

Steve, your post got me thinking that my whole search is predicated on the assumption that there is a 10x out there that's as sharp as my 7x42 Hawthorne on axis, just with more magnification (and without optical side-effects like the "rolling ball" that appear while panning). Given that all of the 10x binoculars I've tried under $500 (with the possible exception of the Vixen porros) are noticeably less sharp than my Hawthornes in the center, and that even the Swaros and Leupold McKinley's I tried/owned appeared to be only marginally sharper at best in the centers (although were sharper near the edges - something less important to me than the absence of the panning distortion), I may be better off with the lower magnification and better resolution I already have in the Hawthornes.

Steve C said:

Thanks, that is more or less what I expected. Personally while I can identify the neighbors individual horses on a mountain side over 4 miles away with 8x (that is color pattern recognition not so much individual detail), 10x is no better. Personally I find that if 8x won't cut the mustard, neither will 10x. Means I need the spotter and 20x to go where I need from there. However magnification is a personal deal, but with your eye relief needs I suspect you might need to go less than that. I'd give a good 8.5 X a look as a 7x companion.

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So, you are now looking for an 8 or 8.5x binocular that is as sharp or sharper on axis than your Leupold Hawthorne 7x42s?

Admittedly, I have never owned the Hawthorne 7x42 but have read many of the comments here on the forum about them. The only complaint I remember reading is the level of color fringing present in the image. If that is the case then logic would follow that an 8x or 8.5x binocular that has and is designed to take advantage of ED glass in the objective design should, theoretically, provide the optical performance you are looking for.

8.5x is sort of a rare bird among magnifications. There are only so many models out there offered in this magnification. One of them that instantly comes to mind is the Swift Audubon porros. They make them in both ED and non-ED versions. Price, at one optics retailer, is listed at $370 so they check off that box in your requirement list. The advertised level of eye relief is 17 mm though I have vague recollections of folks mentioning that the "usable level" of eye relief is notably shorter. You may run into the same problem that you did with Vixen Forestas. Hopefully someone else can chime in on that issue.

As for 8x, ED glass binoculars in the $300-$500 range...take your pick. There are many out there. Personally I have always had a soft spot for the Zen Ray ED series (currently the ED3 model). I once compared the 7x43 version against a 7x42 Zeiss FL and felt that there was practically no difference in the center of the field performance when it came to CA control or apparent sharpness. Again, going by memory, I don't ever recall having an issue with apparent sharpness in the 8x43 version either.

Another to consider in the 8x42 configuration would be the Opticron HR WP 8x42. The last of the truly wonderful internal focus porro designs. They fit within your price range, have plenty of eye relief and have excellent apparent sharpness.

Hope this helps.

Hi Frank. Thanks for the reply. As always, I appreciate the great information that you, Steve and others here have to offer.

I would look at an 8.5 with good ER, but I'm actually thinking of putting the whole search on hold for awhile and seeing what the next crop of mid-level 10x ED binoculars are like. I may take a chance on the 9x42 Pentax DCF BR, which is supposed to have 18mm ER. The 10x was also supposed to have 18mm, but didn't have enough useable ER. Maybe the design of the 9x puts the eyepiece lens a little higher...? I'm getting tired of mailing things back and forth!

None of the 10x42 I tried at Cabelas (Swaro EL SV, Meopta Meostar HD and a couple of others) or the McKinley HD I bought and returned had significantly better resolution than the Hawthorne 7x42 has in the 50-60% sweet spot, tested on distant signage, silhouetted trees at 1/2, 3/4 and a little over a mile, as well as on deer and birds (the 20-25% on both sides was a different story of course, but doesn't really bother me (and that's where most of the CA is), and the Hawthorne is head-and-shoulders sharper than all the less expensive 10x roofs I've tried, including the Monarch 5 (in fact, not really even close - maybe I just got lucky and got a great Hawthorne...).

FrankD said:

So, you are now looking for an 8 or 8.5x binocular that is as sharp or sharper on axis than your Leupold Hawthorne 7x42s?

Admittedly, I have never owned the Hawthorne 7x42 but have read many of the comments here on the forum about them. The only complaint I remember reading is the level of color fringing present in the image. If that is the case then logic would follow that an 8x or 8.5x binocular that has and is designed to take advantage of ED glass in the objective design should, theoretically, provide the optical performance you are looking for.

8.5x is sort of a rare bird among magnifications. There are only so many models out there offered in this magnification. One of them that instantly comes to mind is the Swift Audubon porros. They make them in both ED and non-ED versions. Price, at one optics retailer, is listed at $370 so they check off that box in your requirement list. The advertised level of eye relief is 17 mm though I have vague recollections of folks mentioning that the "usable level" of eye relief is notably shorter. You may run into the same problem that you did with Vixen Forestas. Hopefully someone else can chime in on that issue.

As for 8x, ED glass binoculars in the $300-$500 range...take your pick. There are many out there. Personally I have always had a soft spot for the Zen Ray ED series (currently the ED3 model). I once compared the 7x43 version against a 7x42 Zeiss FL and felt that there was practically no difference in the center of the field performance when it came to CA control or apparent sharpness. Again, going by memory, I don't ever recall having an issue with apparent sharpness in the 8x43 version either.

Another to consider in the 8x42 configuration would be the Opticron HR WP 8x42. The last of the truly wonderful internal focus porro designs. They fit within your price range, have plenty of eye relief and have excellent apparent sharpness.

Hope this helps.

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Sounds like you got a cherry Hawthorne. Given what you wrote I would hold off until you can afford a premium 10x since I doubt a mid priced pair is going to feel like the improvement you are looking for.

My dad is a fan of 10x binoculars and recently bought Nikon's Monarch 7 10x42. I have been a long time user of 8x binoculars, but after viewing through his binoculars, I wanted 10x. My purchase of Nikon 8x30 eii had fallen through, so maybe it was fate. As I awaited Paypal to refund my binocular budget money, I considered the following:

I considered the Zen Ray ED3 10x43, but was turned off by the eye relief issues that I had read about here on birdforum. The Zeiss Conquest HD 10x has a similar issue and it drove me nuts when I tried it at the Field and Stream (Dick's Sporting Goods) store, so I knew I couldn't accept that with the Zen Rays. BTW, the Zeiss have a great view, crystalline comes to mind. At $1000, is the view twice as good as the M7? Probably not. Though you can get them cheaper...

Eagle Optics Ranger ED seem to be very similar to the Zen Rays, and I could not find an instance of someone having the same eye relief issue. Maybe the design is a little bit different. I almost bought them.

I tried to find something used. Just missed out on Docter 10x50 that were mislabeled on eBay, but I messed up my bid. They went for something like $144. Nothing on craigslist.

I really enjoyed the view of the Meopta Meostars I tested at a big convention here in Pittsburgh a few years ago. The new ones are supposed to be even better. Their price to performance ratio is very good to me. Unfortunately, the demos at Cameraland were just a bit too expensive. I think Meopta is a very underrated brand to the general public. Maybe unknown is the proper word.

Bushnell Elites were my next consideration. There isn't too much information about them here on birdforum. Under $450 brand new on eBay. I'm curious how they stand against the Zen Rays.

I wish someone here had reviewed the Bresser Everest 10x42. I read every post of the 8x42 review. I can handle gluing an eyecup if needed. I guess I wasn't willing to be the guy to post a review.

I liked the Zeiss Terra view. The rebate available made them even more attractive. The focus knob isn't up to Nikon quality, but I could have lived with it. The salesman at Cabela's did not even consider them worthy of the Zeiss name. While at Cabela's I viewed through a Vortex Viper, but they didn't do much for me. They seem a bit expensive for the view offered.

While I like my dad's M7s, they aren't a whole lot better to me than the Monarch 5 that I viewed at Dick's. The field of view is definitely larger in the M7. Besides, he has a pair and I have to be a little different.

I finally decided to take a chance and buy the Nikon 10x35 eii from Japan via eBay. They have a stellar reputation. They cost $562 shipped and the seller did everything he said he was going to do. Only took a week and a couple days from the time I ordered to the time I got them. They were sealed brand new and 99.99% perfect, just one small speck in the coating. The speck is about the size of the period of this sentence. Overall, not worth worrying about, but if it was from an American retailer I would have sent them back just because they weren't perfect. It's actually the second time I've purchased a brand new Nikon with a speck in the coating.

They can be purchased a little cheaper from Amazon Japan via a forwarding service, but I forgot about this option at the time. I figured that, at worst, I would get most of my money back if I were to ever sell them.

They have an amazing view. Love the 3D effect. I am not sorry I bought them, but I don't know if I would have bought them if I could have had every binocular lined up for me to try. It's not realistic, nor do I have the time to do that via Eagle Optics or any other retailer. You can't test the eii anyways, because nobody has them. Sort of sad Nikon USA won't sell them anymore. $562 is not an inconsiderable sum for me at the moment, but I wanted a great pair of binoculars for the epic road trip my father and I are taking for two months starting in May, and that is what I got.

I have the Pentax DCF SP 10x50s and I really like them. I am an obligate lens wearer as well. The focus is SLOW, but I use them for shorebirds so it is not a big deal. I don't really notice the small FOV and I do enjoy the view. I really liked the view of the Zeiss Conquest 10x's - easy even with my glasses.

LeadLenses said:

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Bushnell Elites were my next consideration. There isn't too much information about them here on birdforum. Under $450 brand new on eBay. I'm curious how they stand against the Zen Rays.

........................ While at Cabela's I viewed through a Vortex Viper, but they didn't do much for me. They seem a bit expensive for the view offered.

...................

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I enjoyed you well thought out post. I have had experiences with some of the models you mentioned and have had many of the same thoughts and questions.

I have a Zen-Ray 10X43 ED and a Bushnell Elite 10X43 ED, which is a prior version of the current Elite 10X42 ED. My brother owns the current Elite ED and I have used it off and on.

The Zen-Ray does offer a nice bright view with good contrast along with a fairly neutral color balance, and a wide field. Technically, the eye-relief is fine, but for me, the short length of the eye cup is not well matched to the eye relief. This is not that uncommon as you noticed in the Zeiss Conquest. Zen-Ray quality has varied from unit to unit but they are very good about getting the problems resolved and Charles has posted about their efforts to improve in that area. The focus mechanism, which is a priority item for me, is not in the same class as Nikon, but Charles has always been able to find one that is acceptable.

The Elite seems to be good quality with a smooth focus, but there is a slight spongy feel when trying to get that razor sharp focus. The view of the Elite of today is very much like the older highly regarded 10X43 but is a little bit brighter in certain lighting conditions. However the Zen-Ray view has a little more sparkle to the view and a much better FOV (340 ft vs 314 ft).

Bottom line, I am able to adjust to the somewhat short Zen-Ray eye cup length, so I would easily take the Zen-Ray over the Elite ED because of the brighter view, a little more contrast and the wider FOV. The Elite is a nice binocular, but I think it is an old design that has fallen behind compared to what is out there today. Bushnell has new ownership and my hope is they will bring the Elite line back to its former high end standards.

The Vortex Viper 10x42HD has always left me with a good impression, but I agree, it is to expensive for what you get. A $600 10X binocular should have a FOV larger than 319 ft. The narrow FOV may be why it did not do anything for you. It has been awhile since I looked through one, but I am thinking the center could have been a little larger for that price class.

Your 10X EII provides one of the best overall views available, so it sets a high bar for all the others to reach.

Quick update: A couple of weeks ago I was able to compare my 7x42 Hawthornes to four 10x42 binoculars: Swaro EL sv, Zeiss Conquest, Vortex Razor and Viper HDs. I know this is an apples-and-oranges comparison, but fair for me from a subjective point of view because I'm looking for center sharpness and a wide relaxed view in a 10x that is similar to or better than the Hawthornes.

The EL, Conquest and Razor were all brighter than the Hawthornes, and the Viper was about the same or a little darker in low light. The ELs were the brightest overall, with the Conquest and Razor being similar. All were sharp on a target chart about 60' away, but interestingly I could resolve down to the same line with each. The EL and Conquest seemed a bit sharper than the others, but I couldn't read the lowest line of text any better (I could read the text on the next-to-lowest line with all of them).

The biggest surprise was just how close the Conquest and EL were. The EL seemed slightly better at the edges, and a few percent brighter, but given relative cost the Conquest 10x42 came out seeming the best value, especially since I liked the view better than the Razor and demos can be had for $500 less than the Razor (and $1,800 less than the EL).

The Razor seemed to have more astigmatism at the edges, although it didn't go soft like my Hawthornes.

Rolling ball effect was noticeably less/better in the Conquests than the ELs.

All of the 10x bins were behind the Hawthornes for FOV / "relaxed" view, as one might expect, and only the Conquest and EL had enough ER for my glasses.

This was a brief (45 min.) test inside a big box sporting goods store, and from their entryway, and obviously limited and subjective, but I think I will save up for some Conquests.

On a side note, the Vipers felt very much like my Hawthornes. So much so that I wonder whether they are from the same maker.

Thanks for the response, BruceH. I did not know that Bushnell had been sold to new owners. Hopefully, they take the brand in the right direction. Now when I think back to my time at the convention where I was looking through the binoculars, I remember looking through the Elites. I think I was a little bit disappointed in the CA compared to my cherry Monarch 8x42 ATB. Same with the old Zeiss Conquests. I do remember going back to Meopta booth multiple times. Either way, I didn't take notes and I didn't have the binoculars side by side.

It took about a week to get my money back, so I had some time to consider a few options. I'm sure the next person in my situation will appreciate the little comparison you did between those binoculars. Maybe the Zen Rays or EO would have worked for me and I could have saved a couple bucks, but I'm going to have these eii for a long time so it doesn't matter much

Paul2013, you probably already know this, but you can save some money on the Zeiss by buying a demo unit from NYCameraland. I've read some good things about their virtually brand new demos.

Here is the thread on the Bushnell purchase. It is now owned by an outdoor goods company rather than an investment firm so that may be a good thing.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=265981

I noticed in my prior note I said I own a Bushnell 10X43 Elite ED. That is not correct. It is not an ED. The ED is the current 10X42 Elite. Sorry for not catching that before clicking on submit and the closing of the edit window.

I say :t: to both.

FrankD said:

Personally I have always had a soft spot for the Zen Ray ED series (currently the ED3 model). I once compared the 7x43 version against a 7x42 Zeiss FL and felt that there was practically no difference in the center of the field performance when it came to CA control or apparent sharpness. Again, going by memory, I don't ever recall having an issue with apparent sharpness in the 8x43 version either.

Another to consider in the 8x42 configuration would be the Opticron HR WP 8x42. The last of the truly wonderful internal focus porro designs. They fit within your price range, have plenty of eye relief and have excellent apparent sharpness.

Hope this helps.

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