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ID this small bird please (1 Viewer)

Jane Turner said:
You might still be right - the darkness of the majority of the wing might suggest its a 2nd CY bird that has delayed the majority of its moult.

That would fit better with the date too.

:eek!:

a 2CY male would be even more contrasty than a female. Where are the plumage features Jane? I don't see any on my monitor?

Am I seeing the right attachments?!

OK see the attachment - only editing was an increase in contrast which should bring out the colours to some extent. Wheres this peachy breast?
 

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Josh Jones said:
:eek!:

a 2CY male would be even more contrasty than a female. Where are the plumage features Jane?


2CY with suspended moult was what I suggested - as an alternative to female - on account of the level of contrast bewtween the flight feathers and the back, but the lack of such a sharp contrast between the lesser/median coverts and the mantle

I can see the plumage features - I'm mystified why you can't! Look at Jono's annotated attachment.
 
Jane Turner said:
2CY with suspended moult was what I suggested - as an alternative to female - on account of the level of contrast bewtween the flight feathers and the back, but the lack of such a sharp contrast between the lesser/median coverts and the mantle

I can see the plumage features - I'm mystified why you can't! Look at Jono's annotated attachment.

I can see the crap, I can see the black tail, I see a bird.

I see no peachy colouring, or super.

Black Wheatear anyone?! I give up. Best not put a name to the species.
 
Quite an amusing thread this one!

I'd go with Black Redstart personally, mainly because it looks like one.
I'd rule out Wheatear, cos it doesn't look like one and would rule out Robin/dunnock because it isn't one.

Somehow I can't see everybody agreeing tho

matt
 
See the attached.

These four show a range of features that can be seen on the bird in question (and yes I know ones a male).

On some it is very hard to see the red tail. Some show darker wings. Some show a pale/white patch on the lower belly/vent.

Make of that what you will....
 

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Right Josh - try this.

The peach/brown contrast on the original pic (unaltered in any way) and a comparison of the structure of Black Red in the same stance and angle as the mystery Chat. Both species are long-winged (longer than Robin) but Black-red has a proportionatley much longer tail.

It also has a smaller head of course.
 

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Despite my better judgement of leaving this thread alone, I've got to say that there are arguments to be made for virtually every species mentioned: but going from the photo, and on first impressions I'm going to say wheatear, the shape and that dark wing stand out for me. On a photo of this quality, it's impossible to see all the features we want to see. Maybe in the field it looked completely different.
 
Chat or not to chat...

Are you all so sadly demented that you actually care what species it is?

If you could see some hint of red on the tail, then I might go for Black Redstart...in fact seems most likely to me..but what do I know.

The only vagrant wheatear as yet recorded in the UK that might fit the bill is Desert with an all dark tail, failing that a partially melanistic Northern Wheathear (or anny other species for that matter) or one of those that hasn't yet or is never liekly to occur - S Arabian, Red-breasted, Red-rumped or Red-tailed.

The twitcher in me would go for Blackstart, but seems a little short-tailed and winged for that species.

Finally a melanistic chat of some other description can't be ruled out either..say Robin, Stonechat or even Whinchat!

Still it is fun trying to ID from other peoples photographic nightmares...so gonna try and post some of my gull ones now on a new thread...
 
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Evidense so far wheatear v b redstart

Bill - seems fine - B redstart
shape - rotund not as elongated as you would expect for wheatear, favouring - B Redstart
time, location - B redstart
plumage - sooty grey - B redstart
observer - considered it to be a B redstart

In the field B Redstarts do show dark primaries, that is a fact. Look at this one
http://blx1.bto.org/birdfacts/results/bob11210.htm
 
I see no reasons why this is not a Black Redstart....

I see some reasons why this is not a Wheatear....

Interested with how many people are batting for the Wheatear side, I just can't see it myself.
 
Steven Astley said:
observer - considered it to be a B redstart
QUOTE]

now if the observer considered it to be a Black Redstart why would he post the picture with the following comment:

'Saw this on the cliffedge at Padstow long way off could this be a Wheatear or something else.'

I don't think your other 'evidence' is of too much real value either.......
 
lostinjapan said:
Are you all so sadly demented that you actually care what species it is?

Hi Shaun, I'm sure you could still offend a few!! We all care intensely. . . Its definately a bit of a challenge, a highly interesting thread, goes to show sometimes how difficult it is to id a bird from a single 'difficult'(=awful ('no offence')) photo. Still think its the first Blackstart for the uk meself. . . maybe a little poorly and with abraded tail ;)

*sits on fence in reality*
 
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Martin Lee said:
Steven Astley said:
observer - considered it to be a B redstart
QUOTE]

now if the observer considered it to be a Black Redstart why would he post the picture with the following comment:

'Saw this on the cliffedge at Padstow long way off could this be a Wheatear or something else.'

Why don't read other posts before coming out if with your comments he later says he thought it was a Black Redstart in the field. I agree that the evidence presented is merely favouring and is not conclusive.

Not only are people favouring it being a Wheatear, which is based on it being heavily silhouetted but they are also ageing and sexing it!

I echo what Josh says, good luck in finding Wheatears this year ;)
 
As an outsider, maybe I can come in and say

STOP THIS MADNESS

The photo isn't getting any better the more bickering that occurs on its behalf. I'm sure that if we all saw the bird in question in detail there would be no argument on its ID. But we haven't, so is everyone fine at leaving it as a Chat sp. - probable Wheatear/Black Redstart? (don't start up with that robin rubbish again...) Everyone is firmly rooted to where they lean, but truth be told we'll probably never know for sure with this bird.

Please. Stop. While no one's gotten shot yet. :eek!:
 
Thanks to all for the input on this little bird, i am going back to the area tomorrow and i will see if i can find it and get a better photograph.
 
Tav94 said:
Thanks to all for the input on this little bird, i am going back to the area tomorrow and i will see if i can find it and get a better photograph.

Be quick tav we are literally days away form our beaches getting swamped with Wheatears.
If you photograph a Wheatear you have got the wrong bird
;)
Another question, what did you see when it flew, everybody who sees a Wheatear flying away will notice a large area of white from its arse.
 
Tav94 said:
Thanks to all for the input on this little bird, i am going back to the area tomorrow and i will see if i can find it and get a better photograph.
And see if you can re-find an interesting falcon for us. (Along with a good shot of its lower parts)

And I can unequivocally state no madness has occurred on this thread, (although maybe plenty are showing delusional tendencies. . .;)). . . it's all just a bit of gentle debate!!!

The 'whitethroat' thread (4 british birds) reached #117 posts. . .
 
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Just a last word then me then... I don't think this bird is silhoutted, I think its just a little damp. I guess I get a lot of practise distinguishing Wheatears from Black Redstarts in bad light at large distances. I only haul may backside up to Red Rocks when the chat on the nursing home wall looks long-tailed!
 
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