Honey Buzzard ... or Honey-buzzard? (1 Viewer)

dantheman · Sep 5, 2017

Came across this the other day ... the new species Honey-buzzard which I had not encountered before. Bit confused, does the hyphen mean it is a type of honey?

Came across it on a County birding website, although I see the BTO uses it.

Who else commonly uses it within the wider birding community?

Nutcracker · Sep 5, 2017

Surprised you've not come across Honey-buzzard before! It's the current official BOU name and has been for many years, but now they've decided to follow IOC, it'll revert to unhyphenated at the end of this year. Also still currently the standard name in British Birds; I'm guessing they too will follow IOC spelling from the end of this year.

The reasoning behind the hyphen is that it's not a species of Buteo; IOC's argument is that 'buzzard' is wider than just the genus Buteo (e.g. Black-breasted Buzzard Hamirostra melanosternon from Australia) so the hyphen isn't necessary.

Nutcracker · Sep 5, 2017

From the preamble to the 2013 edition of the official British List; note last sentence:

The use of hyphens can, however, be very useful in helping to differentiate between species, even at the vernacular level. For many years, birders have used Stone Curlew for Burhinus oedicnemus, but this suggests that this species is related to the Numenius curlews such as Curlew and Whimbrel when it clearly is not. The same also applies to Honey Buzzard Pernis apivorus, which is not related to the Buteo buzzards, and Night Heron Nycticorax nycticorax, which is not an Ardea heron or related to any of the smaller heron species. In these instances, the BOU feels that it is justified to alter the written form of a vernacular name without changing the spoken form of the name in order to make the true species form distinct. As such, the BOU uses the vernacular names of Stone-curlew, Honey-buzzard and Night-heron in its publications.

Farnboro John · Sep 5, 2017

I've seen it and I suspect the hyphenated form is right: but it doesn't look right! Personally I write Honey Buzzard, Stone Curlew, Night Heron.

Funnily enough Oriental (or Crested) Honey-buzzard doesn't look so wrong, so its probably just custom and practice that makes the difference.

John

birdboybowley · Sep 5, 2017

I hyphenate all those

Simon Wates · Sep 5, 2017

I like hyphens too - don't know why :-O

John Cantelo · Sep 5, 2017

I'd never use a hyphen in my personal notes but I think they may serve a useful function in more formal written works ...

Barred Wobbler · Sep 6, 2017

Well since it's not really a buzzard and it doesn't eat honey, I'd say a hyphen is the least of our worries about what to call it.

Nutcracker · Sep 6, 2017

Barred Wobbler said:
Well since it's not really a buzzard and it doesn't eat honey, I'd say a hyphen is the least of our worries about what to call it.

In Denmark, Germany, Netherlands, etc., it's name translates to "waspbuzzard" (always 1 word). Better description of its diet!

Barred Wobbler · Sep 6, 2017

Nutcracker said:
In Denmark, Germany, Netherlands, etc., it's name translates to "waspbuzzard" (always 1 word). Better description of its diet!

They're half way there.

Nutcracker · Sep 7, 2017

Barred Wobbler said:
They're half way there.

Of course Northumbrian HB are famous for their unique diet of rabbits, pigeons, crows and carrion . . . 3

Barred Wobbler · Sep 7, 2017

Nutcracker said:
Of course Northumbrian HB are famous for their unique diet of rabbits, pigeons, crows and carrion . . . 3

They've got to eat the rabbits so they can use the vacated burrows as nest holes and hibernation hideouts.

I've seen hundreds, maybe thousands of real ones this past week and still they come. A camera back photo from last Saturday below.

Scridifer · Sep 7, 2017

Nutcracker said:
In Denmark, Germany, Netherlands, etc., it's nanme translates to "waspbuzzard" (always 1 word). Better description of its diet!

It's Bulgarian name also Michael - Osoyad means wasp eater!

Chris

kb57 · Sep 7, 2017

In this respect I'm with Clements / eBird rather than IOC in preferring European Honey-buzzard...a three-part (note my hyphen) name looks wrong unless hyphenated. So Honey Buzzard looks OK, but not European Honey Buzzard or Crested Honey Buzzard.

This is echoed in current treatments of English wild plant names: Stace's Flora of the British Isles refers to (for example) Red Dead-nettle, which also serves to emphasise that dead-nettles are to nettles what honey-buzzards are to buzzards (i.e. a different genus).

I can't find it, but I think there may be some sort of stylistic justification for this convention?

Of course, I'd prefer to call it a European honey-buzzard, but I'm not going to re-open that particular debate!

Nutcracker · Sep 7, 2017

kb57 said:
In this respect I'm with Clements / eBird rather than IOC in preferring European Honey-buzzard...a three-part (note my hyphen) name looks wrong unless hyphenated. So Honey Buzzard looks OK, but not European Honey Buzzard or Crested Honey Buzzard.

This is echoed in current treatments of English wild plant names: Stace's Flora of the British Isles refers to (for example) Red Dead-nettle, which also serves to emphasise that dead-nettles are to nettles what honey-buzzards are to buzzards (i.e. a different genus).

Nothing wrong with unhyphenated 3-part names! That's actually where Stace makes some awful mistakes.

Lady Amherst's Pheasant
Great Northern Diver
Great Crested Grebe
Lesser Spotted Eagle
American Golden Plover
Pacific Golden Plover
Lesser Crested Tern
Great Spotted Woodpecker
Lesser Spotted Woodpecker
Asian Brown Flycatcher
Great Grey Shrike
Cape May Warbler

Farnboro John · Sep 7, 2017

Nutcracker said:
Nothing wrong with unhyphenated 3-part names! That's actually where Stace makes some awful mistakes.

Great Grey Shrike

Also Lesser Grey, Southern Grey and/or Steppe Grey Shrikes, I have trouble keeping up with large grey Lanius shuffling......

Eastern Black Redstart - oops, not yet.....

John

Carnifex · Sep 7, 2017

Nutcracker said:
... IOC's argument is that 'buzzard' is wider than just the genus Buteo (e.g. Black-breasted Buzzard Hamirostra melanosternon from Australia) so the hyphen isn't necessary.

IIRC Honey-buzzards (Pernis) are actually closer related to Egyptian and Bearded Vulture than to Buteo buzzards. If that's the case, than the IOC's definition of a buzzard is in fact very wide... Hyphen makes absolutely sense here in my opinion.

Simon Wates · Sep 7, 2017

Nutcracker said:
Nothing wrong with unhyphenated 3-part names! That's actually where Stace makes some awful mistakes.

Lady Amherst's Pheasant
Great Northern Diver
Great Crested Grebe
Lesser Spotted Eagle
American Golden Plover
Pacific Golden Plover
Lesser Crested Tern
Great Spotted Woodpecker
Lesser Spotted Woodpecker
Asian Brown Flycatcher
Great Grey Shrike
Cape May Warbler

Not at all, like Rufous Bush Robin but I think Rufous-tailed Scrub Robin sounds more evocative even though its a mouthful - dunno why :king:

Jos Stratford · Sep 7, 2017

Carnifex said:
.... and Bearded Vulture than to Buteo buzzards.

... Hyphen makes absolutely sense here in my opinion.

No issues with hyphen or no hyphen with the Bearded Vulture, just use Lammergeier :t:

Carnifex · Sep 7, 2017

Jos Stratford said:
...just use Lammergeier :t:

Ok, this is leading the thread away from the topic, but the name 'Lammergeier' is derived from German, whereas the German name is Bartgeier = Bearded Vulture. Don't like the name Lammergeier anyway, same is true for Killer Whale instead of Orca. Lammergeier (lamb vulture) creates the impression of a dangerous bird of prey, that kills sweet little lambs and should better be shot or poisoned...

Honey Buzzard ... or Honey-buzzard? (1 Viewer)

Bah humbug

Stop Brexit!

Stop Brexit!

Well-known member

Well-known member.....apparently so ;)

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Stop Brexit!

Well-known member

Stop Brexit!

Well-known member

Attachments

Used Registrar

Well-known member

Stop Brexit!

Well-known member

Member

Well-known member

Eastern Exile

Member

Similar threads

Users who are viewing this thread