Canon 100-400 mm IS Lens with Extender? (1 Viewer)

bosquebirds · Oct 1, 2004

Hi, all.
I'm about to purchase a DSLR and am looking at the Nikon D70 and the Canon 20D. As a lens for birding, I'm considering the Canon 100-400 IS and the Nikon 80-400 VR. (Yes, I know that some people think that these lenses aren't ideal for birding, but I have to make some concessions to budget and the lugging-around factor.)

I understand that extenders, such as a 1.4x are not really recommended with these lenses, but can they work? Has anyone had any experience, good or bad, that might help me with mulling over this decision?

Thanks so much.
Ingrid

cfagyal · Oct 2, 2004

The simple answer to your question is yes they work. The real answer you are seeking though is are they any good. The answer there, in my opinion, is no. For one, with a 1.4x on either lens you are relegating yourself to an f/8 manual focus lens or worse, so the amount of light you are getting isn't that great. Also you are going to really have to stop down to get a decently sharp image, probably at leeast to f/11, if not f/13 or f/16. It is definitely not something I would recommend. If budget is a concern, you'd be far better served for bird photography getting the 400mm f/5.6L instead of the 100-400. Much sharper lens, and pretty decent (although still manual focus on the 20D) with a 1.4x TC.

bosquebirds said:
Hi, all.
I'm about to purchase a DSLR and am looking at the Nikon D70 and the Canon 20D. As a lens for birding, I'm considering the Canon 100-400 IS and the Nikon 80-400 VR. (Yes, I know that some people think that these lenses aren't ideal for birding, but I have to make some concessions to budget and the lugging-around factor.)

I understand that extenders, such as a 1.4x are not really recommended with these lenses, but can they work? Has anyone had any experience, good or bad, that might help me with mulling over this decision?

Thanks so much.
Ingrid

Doug Greenberg · Oct 2, 2004

I own and use an 80-400mm. VR zoom, and it's a wonderful lens, don't let anyone tell you differently

). I'm sure the Canon equivalent is equally good. For basic, "walkaround and shoot" photography, these lenses are just fine, even at 400mm and a wide aperture. If you shoot digitally and do some skillful post-processing work in terms of sharpening, color adjustment, etc., you can get terrific images with these lenses. And the IS/VR function certainly is a boon.

More good news is that with a 1.4x telextender the lens will still autofocus (albeit slowly, and in poor light, barely at all), and VR function still works, though not as well.

The bad news, however, is that a 1.4x telextender degrades the image significantly enough that I don't find it satisfactory and rarely use this combination.

The same 1.4x telextender added to a good fixed focal length lens like a 400 f5.6 works much better. My understanding is that the zoom just has so many optical elements that adding seven more to add the telextender effect just can't maintain the quality.

But if you look at the photos submitted to the gallery here in birdforum.net, you'll see that more than a few people use the stabilized zooms with telextenders, and the results are certainly acceptable.

bosquebirds · Oct 2, 2004

Thanks so much, guys. I've pushed my Coolpix and Lumix cameras to their limits and am not entirely happy with results at the far end of telephoto ranges, although I plan to hold onto the Lumix FZ10 for general purposes. I'm switching to a DSLR to improve the quality of telephoto images (among other improvements that the DSLR can bring), so this was exactly what I needed to know. I've started to do my research on this new set of permutations and combinations and things are looking good.
Ingrid

TwoBoy · Oct 16, 2004

I use the following combinations - Canon 20D with Canon EF100~400L IS USM with and without the 1.4x II extender and a 10D with the Canon 28~300L IS USM.

I can really recommend all the pieces of equipment listed and the extender is really very good.

Warning: The extender does not fit all lenses, you lose AF with the 100~400 unless you tape contacts (I don't do this and use it MF)

Try it in a shop with your camera and lens - you won't be sorry. Oh! I forgot, I am a great believer in Canon being able to offer worldwide service, even in South Africa we have a full Canon workshop if thy are needed - very helpful and competent.

trenchmonkey · Oct 23, 2004

Hi Birdbrain, I've got a Digital Rebel and use a Canon EF 300 f4 IS and 70-200 2.8 with the 1.4EX II and maintain auto focusing with both. I'm about 20 miles south of ABQ and was invaded by hundreds of sandhill cranes this am. If you'd like I'll email you some results of the "bathrobe photo op" ...Will [email protected]

James Eaton · Oct 23, 2004

Hi Ingrid,

I to use a Canon 100-400mm IS, only bought it 3 months ago to replace my sigma 400mm, which, though a decent enough lens I wasn't always getting the results I wanted. I lose out quite a bit as I use my camera for hand held rainforest photography, so before I was losing out slightly with handholding as I can only use a flash I was always on 1/60th sec so I had no room for error. I find the IS is brilliant, its made a huge difference for me, and with it being able to shorten down to 100mm it makes it carrying around a lot easier. These are the 2 reasons I went for this lens over the straight Canon 400mm 5.6 lens.
Though with the Canon EF lens you may need to come up with a cover, as the white coating doesn't do much for the birds!

All the best,

bosquebirds · Oct 23, 2004

Hi James and TwoBoy:
I debated on the prime versus zoom issues for some time, as I've always used primes in my film camera kits and value the quality of the glass and resulting images.

I finally decided to purchase the 20D with the 100-400mm IS for a few reasons: I could only afford to buy one good lens at a time for this puppy and have switched from Nikon AIS manual equipment so have no other lenses to use. Therefore, I needed some flexibility in range of coverage and a 300mm or 400mm is pretty specific. Like you, I appreciate the folded-down size for carrying, but I still think it's pretty huge! But it's also less cumbersome lengthwise. Lastly, I was concerned with the dust on the sensor issue and using this zoomer, and one or maybe two others in the future, will hopefully limit the cleaning rituals.

Compromise? Yes. I know the quality won't be quite what I'd get with a prime, but even on my first week-end using it and a new camera, I got results in average to poor light that are impossible with my other equipment.

In the best of all possible worlds, I'd have a boxload of primes for every conceivable use and a pack-llama to haul it around...but come to think of it, the llama would probably scare the birds!

Ingrid

rafiki · Oct 23, 2004

TwoBoy said:
... you lose AF with the 100~400 unless you tape contacts (I don't do this and use it MF)

I just tried this with my Canon 2x. It works but very badly. It hunts for AF and then, often, doesn't find it and needs another press of the shutter to reactivate AF. It would be a real PITA in the field. I removed the tape and immediately went back to MF.

christineredgate · Oct 23, 2004

Ingrid ,although the 100-400 IS seems a very large lens,it is very easy to use hanheld.I have used it with a 300D to take shots of Swallows on phone wires(meant holding it in the air!!) and they came out okay.I have difficulty holding stuff due to arthritis in my hands,but I can cope with this lens okay.I did not have much success with the 1x4 extender,and eventually sold it,but others have produced excellent shots using the extender.

TwoBoy · Oct 24, 2004

bosquebirds said:
Hi James and TwoBoy:
I debated on the prime versus zoom issues for some time, as I've always used primes in my film camera kits and value the quality of the glass and resulting images.

I finally decided to purchase the 20D with the 100-400mm IS for a few reasons: I could only afford to buy one good lens at a time for this puppy and have switched from Nikon AIS manual equipment so have no other lenses to use. Therefore, I needed some flexibility in range of coverage and a 300mm or 400mm is pretty specific. Like you, I appreciate the folded-down size for carrying, but I still think it's pretty huge! But it's also less cumbersome lengthwise. Lastly, I was concerned with the dust on the sensor issue and using this zoomer, and one or maybe two others in the future, will hopefully limit the cleaning rituals.

Compromise? Yes. I know the quality won't be quite what I'd get with a prime, but even on my first week-end using it and a new camera, I got results in average to poor light that are impossible with my other equipment.

In the best of all possible worlds, I'd have a boxload of primes for every conceivable use and a pack-llama to haul it around...but come to think of it, the llama would probably scare the birds!

Ingrid

Hi Ingrid

But a vey good compromise - ignore the dust on the sensor issue - you would generate a lot more dust in the body by changing primes all the time. It lives on my one body and in a year I have had to use the blower just once for speck of dust that could have come from anywhere. Canon checked the lens for me last week, no dust in the lens and a clean bill of health - all this after its been in 13 countries in a 4x4. To buy all the primes you would have to own an oil well anyway.

Cheers
Doug

TwoBoy · Oct 24, 2004

rafiki said:
I just tried this with my Canon 2x. It works but very badly. It hunts for AF and then, often, doesn't find it and needs another press of the shutter to reactivate AF. It would be a real PITA in the field. I removed the tape and immediately went back to MF.

I don't know who came up with the taping trick - to my mind if you put something between contacts you have to force something - why damage a lens? I only use the 1.4x, I think the 2x would degrade the sharpness and slow it down too much.

Doug

rafiki · Oct 24, 2004

TwoBoy said:
... I think the 2x would degrade the sharpness and slow it down too much.

Yes it does both. I think I shall have to bite the bullet and trade the 2x for a 1.4x.

bosquebirds · Oct 25, 2004

Hi, Christine.
After 17 years in front of a computer most workdays - or driving a car to clients in the back of beyond - I've developed a neck and arms from hell. I pay a massage therapist to beat me up every two weeks and that keeps me going. When I was out with this lens and thoroughly engaged in photographing a heron with an over-large fish, I didn't notice the weight of the lens. However, I felt it that night! There are times when a tripod is not practical and lenses like this are designed for those instances and I intend to fully develop my skills with this lens. I just need to build up my forearms. Spinach, anyone?
Ingrid

bosquebirds · Oct 25, 2004

Hiya, Doug.
Glad to hear that you haven't had any bad experience with dust. Reading the messages on groups and forums has made me think I've going to have to clean the chamber every week, especially since I live in a desert environment.

Yeah, I know what you mean about being able to afford a lot of primes....no oil wells in MY future!

Ingrid

nick scarle · Oct 26, 2004

There's a good comparison of the 100-400 v 400 prime at

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/forgotten-400.shtml

The bottom line is that zooms are not as good as primes - full stop. However, there are some situations where a zoom will get you a photo you wouldnt have got with a prime.
Must go, my llama needs feeding again !

Gaukur · Nov 10, 2004

Interesting discussion here about Canon 400 mm 5.6 prime vs 100-400 IS zoom. I have not seen any comparison between Canon 400 mm 5.6 and 300 mm IS 4.0 + 1.4x converter = 420 mm 5.6. Would these lenses give comparable results? I wish Canon would make decently priced and sized 400 mm or 500 mm with IS (i.e. 400 mm IS 5.6 or even 500 mm IS 5.6) as 300 mm is a little short for birding.

Gallus · Nov 10, 2004

Hi
Can anybody explain what pins you tape and what type of tape you use to get a 1.4 canon converter plus 100/400 lens on a 20D for the AF to work.

nigelblake · Nov 10, 2004

The real issue here is that on a test bench the 100-400mm IS will out resolve the resolution of all but the high-end sensors on digital SLRs, in most cases where image quality issues arise it is the expectation of the user that IS will hold sharp on shutter speeds much lower than it is sensible to use, often loss of sharpness is down to subject movement or camera shake, even at highish shutter speeds. I regularly use the 100-400IS lens on my EOS 1Ds and have no problems re sharpness as long as the lens is properly suported.
One of the real problems that does affect the quality of an image (with any lens) is that when stopped down to small apertures the 'Airy disc'/ 'circle of confusion' becomes larger than individual pixels and some softening occurs, this happens with film as well in relation to grain structure. So whilst stopping down is desirable for depth of field to increase, overall sharpness (albeit minutely) suffers, using converters will increase airy disc size and result in quality loss. better explained here.....
http://www.smls03494.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fr_default.htm?/dof_2.htm
http://www.smls03494.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fr_default.htm?/dof_2.htm

graham catley · Nov 29, 2004

still learning with my new 100-400 and 300D but I am very impressed with the ability to hand hold it in decent light and get decent results---this afternoon at 16:08 about 10 minutes prior to absolute darkness I came across a Snow Bunting on a path---I hand held the above combo with the lens on about 200mm and the camera ISO on 1600!---the thumnali attached was the rather noisy result but still quite sharp given the abysmal light conditions---just shows what can be achieved in emergency situations

Canon 100-400 mm IS Lens with Extender? (1 Viewer)

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