Help choosing a "high-power" binocular. (1 Viewer)

I've settled into the idea that I "need" a fairly high-powered binocular.
Wanted to see if a spotting scope was something I'd find useful, so recently bought Leupold's Golden Ring 15-30x50. I use it daily, and have been quite happy with it, but frequently find myself scanning with it rather than just focusing on individual objects. In that respect, I find the FOV very limiting, even at 15x.
And so...I'm shopping.
Would like a ~15x binocular.
Don't necessarily have to have a roof, but prefer one for the smaller width vs. a porro(hopefully this will fit in the ~9Hx6.5Wx3" pouch mounted to my daypack which would encourage more frequent use), plus there seems to be a dearth of mid-range porros in an appropriate size.
I have several criteria based on my regular use, and the few optics that I am familiar with:

1. Optical quality similar to the Vortex Razor 8x42 or Pentax DCF SP 8x32.

2. At least 50% increase in magnification of those same binoculars.

3. As much FOV as possible. Close to 272ft. at 1000yd. would be really nice(that's double the FOV of my Leupold spotting scope at 15x).

4. Waterproof, quality construction and good warranty.

5. Online pricing of up to ~$6-700. I might convince myself to spend a bit more, and while less is great, won't skimp on 1-4 just to get anything cheaper.

I have no brand preference.
The binocular will be used exclusively with a tripod adapter mounted on either a Bogen Manfrotto 681B monopod with 3229 tilt head, or 728B lightweight tripod.

Though I'd prefer a little more power, the Pentax 12.5x50 DCF SP is currently my top choice based purely on specs and the fact that I love the 8x32. The 12.5x50 has the same exit pupil, eye relief, and FOV comparative to magnification.
The Vortex Viper 15x50 is another model that I'm interested in. Higher magnification, though the exit pupil and FOV are smaller.
Another bino that I've been reading up on is the Minox BD 15x58 BR ED. Found these in a few places for well under the usual $1000+ price. Looks great, but would have to be something really special to justify the size and weight<<have to admit this is what I really want, just wouldn't be convenient to tote around.

I have no opportunity to view many binos in person locally, except for low-level lines from common brands, and conversely, things I can't afford like Zeiss and Swarovski, so any helpful comments about the listed models or other alternatives would be deeply appreciated.

Hi Owen, None of the 56mm-60mm binoculars are what you would call light wt. If you are happy with the Pentax go with the 12.5x50 DCF SP , I could not find it sold anywhere I checked. Not much on the Minox BD 15x58 BR Regards, Steve
http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/minox.pl?page=62132


Let us know how you like the Minox.

Just my opinion, but I'd think that you might be better off with a small scope (such as you have) but with a fixed 20x WA eyepiece. However, unless you are carrying a tripod, the utility of high powers, especially much above 12x is going to be limited, especially when scanning. In that case, I wouldn't consider anything other than an image stabilized 12 or 15x bino.

--AP

mooreorless said:

http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/minox.pl?page=62132
Let us know how you like the Minox.

Click to expand...

:t: Don't tease me, I've had that in the shopping cart several times in the last few days. Just one little click away...if it weren't so freaking big, it'd be headed south in a UPS truck at this very moment. I'm kind of afraid the Minox would just live on a tripod on my back deck, and never go anywhere. I do want to get the most out of whatever I buy.
They also have a demo DCF SP 10x50 for $399, but I don't think 10x will be enough for what I want. That particular model doesn't have a commensurate FOV, either, barely wider than the 12.5x. The 12.5x is apparently not very popular for whatever reason, and available from several sellers for less than the 10x at ~$550 shipped.
I got the 8x32s on Amazon for $313 instead of the $499 they go for at most dealers. After that awesome deal, I'm a bona fide bargain hunter.

AP, I do plan on getting a nicer spotting scope, with ~20 and 30x WA EPs, camera adapter, new digital camera, better tripod, and all that good stuff. That setup will have to wait, though.
I need some time to decide whether I'll actually use it enough to justify having. Right now I'm still new to this hobby, and have the dangerous combination of too much enthusiasm, and too little restraint. It won't hurt to exercise some patience, and I'd like to get back to being involved in the outdoors more, and maybe participate in some of the local birding and hiking events before buying much more gear. The spotting scope may very well wait until next year's income tax refund.
The binos I can handle buying now, and have an immediate use for. What I'm wondering is if I'll ever use my little spotting scope any more once I get them.

Thanks to both of you for your responses.

I'll be on vacation this week, and it looks like there's a Vortex dealer that won't be too far out of my way. Hopefully get to check out the Viper 15x50 and 12x42.
Turns out there's a Wild Birds Unlimited 15 miles from me that I didn't know about, but they aren't listed on the dealer locator like some of their locations. I'm going to drop by this afternoon if I get up in time.

OwenM said:

... Hopefully get to check out the Viper 15x50 and 12x42...

Click to expand...

OK, but again, I wouldn't buy one of those before trying the similarly priced Canon 12x36 IS.

--AP

I've done a lot of viewing while on vacation, at everything from a few feet to several miles. While I briefly entertained the notion of including 10x binoculars, that idea was dropped.
One thing that has clarified for me after seeing when I do or don't carry and use that compact 21.5oz. Leupold scope, size and weight are not going to be a concern. The fact that I'm using a monopod or tripod makes it totally insignificant, both in transport and use.
I'm not discounting the roofs, but am now looking at porro prism binos with specs that meet my needs, and without regard to the size differences.
The only problem with that is that there is a dearth of mid-priced porros, with very little selection beyond $200 or less models, and I don't know how they stack up.
For instance, I'm very curious as to how something like a Pentax PCF WPII 12x50 porro's optical performance compares to the much more expensive DCF SP 12.5x50 roof, or which roofs a porro in this price range does compare to.

Shop around for a good price on a Nikon 12x50SE porro. I don't think you will be sorry.
Steve

Looks awesome, but the budget just can't take it. Actually the budget is blown already(so why talk about it?), and I can't see spending that much for a relatively special purpose bin. Allowing myself the $600 or so for the models I've been looking at is bordering on irresponsible, already. Good thing I'm single...

Had the opportunity to try several 10x50 porros today. My intention was to get a feel for some of the different models available, just "to see". There was a bigger difference than I remembered between the 10s and my Pentax 8s. None of them were close to matching the quality view of the Pentax, unfortunately, but it will lead me to look at more 10x binos before buying.
The weird thing with the porros was that their optical performance seemed to decline as the price went up.
The $99 Eagle Optics 10x50s were best, followed by the Nikon Action($89), which was in turn better than the Action Extreme($179) and Leupold Mesa($199). The Leupold was particularly disappointing, since it seemed to have the best coatings of the bunch when I inspected them before trying them out. I didn't like the eyecups on any of them. Had blackouts with the Nikon Action, and the EO is the only one I'd actually buy if I were looking for something in that range.
If anything, I guess I learned to stick with the roof prism models I've been considering...

I did get a cool bird feeder and stuff from Wild Birds. The only binos they had besides the 10x50 were the EO Ranger 8x42, and the 7x35 porros.

Hi Owen, I've experimented with high-power bins and found the only thing that suits me is the Canon IS 12x36, mentioned by an earlier poster. It really is a wonderful binocular, delivers a rock-steady hand-held high-mag image, and it's very, very light. Best Wishes and let us know which way you jump!:t:

Some difficulty in meeting your original criteria. You are looking for a 5+° binocular. Unless you get into quite expensive binoculars, few if any over 12x have eyepieces with acceptable correction in a greater than 64° Afov. So, you could get a well corrected 12x50 at 5°, but you won't find ANY well corrected higher powers with Tfov that wide. In a 15x binocular best you could hope for is about 4.3° (225ft/1000yd.) Widest (actuially measured) 12x50 I've ever tested was 5.1° (267ft/1000yd).

I'm surprised you ranked the Nikon Action as you did. Compared to the Nikon AE, it's mechanical build quality is lower, eye relief is very short, outer field correction is poor, it has no funtioning baffles as they are improperly sized and prism aperture is too small reducing aperture to 46mm in the 10x50 and 38mm in the 8x40.

I've found that beam transfer and total illumination have far greater influence on total transmitted light than coatings. For instance, the Leupold 10x50 Mesa in my tests scored poorly in beam transfer and total illumination. Even though the Nikon AE has what appear to be lower quality coatings (MgF prisms and more reflective objective), it does much better than the Leupold Mesa in total light transfer.


The Nikon Action Extreme 10x50 sells for $148.

I found the Nikon Action Extreme 12x50 one of the best in moderately priced class, and at $158 nearly unsurpassed for price. It has the widest corrected fov of all Actions /AEs, it has on-axis resolution rivaling the Nikon SE 12x50, it also has total light beam transfer and illumination nearly equivalent to the SE12x50, but somewhat lower contrast than the SE.

edz

Thanks, Ed. I decided to spend some time reading and comparing, in order to gain some knowlege, and answer some questions before buying another binocular.
One thing I've determined is that AFOV is very important to me. I have 4 8x, and 2 7x binoculars, and temporarily had what would be a 5th 8x. The Pentax DCF SP 8x32s show a moderate to huge increase in image size over the others, seeming to have more than double the magnification of Steiner 8x30 and 8x22s, noticeably more than the 8x42 Vortex Razors I had, and actually presents a larger image of any given object than some cheap 10x50s my father has.
I no longer use any of the others because the Pentax is such a tremendous step up.
The second illustration in the AFOV section of this article here finally summed up part of what I was wondering most about, and that info will also come in handy later when buying spotter eyepieces:
http://www.eaas.co.uk/news/eyepieces.html
Unexplainably, the Pentax 8x32 also gives more perceived magnification than the Browning 8x32 with the same AFOV. Perhaps some variation in actual power? One other problem I'm having reconciling is that the 8x42 Razors I had are listed as having 7.8* or 62.4*AFOV along with 410' FOV, and also had a smaller overall image than the Pentax.
I'm not sure whose specs to trust, and have seen an explanation for the term "effective AFOV" used on Cloudy Nights. While that provides some clarity as to the "why" of the matter, there's no way of knowing which manufacturers, if any, actually use this to guide their listed specs.

All in all, having no opportunity to audition many of the models that have caught my interest, I'm almost stuck on the Pentax DCF SP 12.5x50 if for no other reason than that I think I know what to expect based on the 8x32 that shares so many of its specs.
Still shopping, though, and considering upping the budget, especially since my $600 tax rebate hit the checking account a few days ago. Kind of scared of doing that, though. I don't want to get some big name glass for occasional use that leaves me wishing for more in my everyday binocular-then I'll want to upgrade that, too!

I went ahead and ordered the Pentax DCF SP 12.5x50.
Got it through Amazon from Beach Camera($20 cheaper than ordering direct from their site) for $529.95 shipped. Seemed like a great price, though it's probably because they've been discontinued-Cabela's has them on sale for $700. A couple of dealers actually had them a couple dollars cheaper, but I wanted to order from a place with a storefront and people I could call if problems arose.
Placed the order yesterday morning, and got an email with FedEx tracking info today.
"The waiting is the hardest part..."

Arrived yesterday. Quick shipping from Beach Camera, and FedEx delivered them a day ahead of schedule. Knew they were coming early from checking tracking, and left a note so my neighbors could sign for the delivery, and put them in my house.
Last night, I didn't get home until around midnight, so could only look at stars, moon, and dimly lit surrounding homes and yards.
Awesome. Tripod mounted on the back deck, stars remain pinpoint across probably 65-70%, though they begin to elongate at the outer edges due to the aspherical lens. Not a problem in use. I was surprised by their brightness compared to 7-8x binos with 4-5mm exit pupils. Big difference.
It was an utterly clear night, and would have been perfect if it weren't for a bright moon and a streetlight that I was tempted to shoot out. Never cared for viewing through telescopes, and the smaller binos I'm accustomed to are underwhelming at best, but with these it was like a whole new sky opened up to me.
I got an instant surge of interest in astronomy, that I may pursue further.

This morning, male and female cardinals, and American bluebirds have been going wild here, with a couple of bluebirds putting on some pretty comical displays(and amazing aerobatics!) as they catch flying insects in my back yard. I'm able to see them in exquisite detail, and surprisingly, follow them fairly easily in flight on a monopod with tilt head.

I'm very happy with the quality, overall. Well, I expected to be happy, but these are actually beyond my expectations. Compared to the DCF SP 8x32, the 12.5x50's view is bigger, brighter, and of course, more detailed. Images snap into focus. Colors, and the contrast between them, are vividly rendered.
The binocular itself is actually better than my 8x32. The focus knob is lighter and smoother. The diopter setting less mushy and with more snap when it locks into place.
The only downsides are the expected compromises from going to a higher magnification. The FOV, though not in the least restrictive, is narrower. I'm seeing some CA on bright colors and straight lines against bright backgrounds, but am having to look for it. I can only hand-hold them for a couple of minutes without the shakes interfering with use.
My only real issue is that the larger objectives place the barrels so closely together that I can barely tighten my tripod adapter-slow going using just the fingertips. I'm going to order the Pentax adapter, which has a slot for a flathead screwdriver, and will eliminate this little problem.

The CA thing was a bit of a bummer, since of course I want them to be "perfect", but other than that I don't think I could be any happier.

Hi Owen, With me being one person that was waiting for you to receive this Pentax DCF Sp 12.5x50 and I have thought of buying this binocular at one time or another.Thanks for posting your thoughts on here. I am glad that you like your purchase, that always helps. You would of seen less CA in the Nikon 12x50SE, but the Nikon is not WP and you have to order a special adpt. to mount it. I have read about others having problems mounting the adapter to the Pentax 12.5x50 binocular. With you saying "Images snap into focus", I would say that is a very good sign for sure. No hunting for focus.
Regards,Steve

"Snaps into focus" could be synonymous with "lacks depth of field"
I don't doubt the Nikon would have been better, but the size and lack of waterproofing would have meant that it saw less use. I've already had the Pentax out in the rain, and let my neighbors three kids(2-5y.o.) play with them...doubt that would've happened with the more expensive SE.

I do have a couple of nitpicks. The focus knob has developed a rough spot in its travel after a couple day's use. I hope there's nothing wrong in there. Looking toward the morning sun, the 12.5x50 also seems to suffer a bit more from glare than my 8x32-maybe just a result of higher magnification. I'm glad I didn't go with a less expensive glass with a presumably lower grade of coatings.
Another thing I noticed when doing the star test was that there is a wider "band" around the edge of the view that shows field curvature. I'm assuming this is due to the aspherical lenses, though I'm not sure how that all works. Not a problem for my use, since it's only noticeable when viewing fine detail off-axis, which to me means I'll only see it when I intentionally look for it.

ID'd two "first for my yard" birds this morning that I wouldn't have been able to with 8x, and one of them I would have been unlikely to be able to follow and catch sitting still with a scope.
I set up my Leupold 15-30x50 on a tripod at 15x, and viewed side-by-side with the 12.5x50. The scope resolved details a little better(no doubt because it's on a tripod), but the binos gave almost the same object size and resolution with a much larger and more comfortable view. It's also sooooo much easier to use and focus than the scope, that I'm really not sure what I'll use the Leupold for any more.
The 12.5x gives a big jump in magnification, and I'm not the least uncomfortable with the FOV which doesn't seem narrow at all in use.

Also fixed the tripod adapter so a flathead screwdriver could be used to tighten it. Screwed it up a little with a loose bit on my Dremel tool, so it looks kind of crappy, but works perfect.
The 12.5x50 fits in the case(Maxpedition Toadstool) that I have attached to my daypack, which works out great.
Fitting in the case, and being able to quickly remove the tripod adapter mean that it's no trouble to take them everywhere, like work, where I keep a cheap monopod with a Stoney Point binocular rest.
Unfortunately the little kestrel that I sometimes get to watch on the job around sunrise hasn't put in an appearance since I got the new binos.

Next up is an OP/TECH Classic strap to replace the factory one, and an EO rainguard. My 8x32 and 12.5x50 will look like twins! I may get all crazy, and order a different color strap, though:eek!:

A few things I think of when I hear "snaps into focus".

probably lacks any significant spherical aberration
probably lacks any significant astigmatism
probably lacks any serious miscollimation

if you happen to mean snaps into focus across the entire fov at the same time then
probably lacks significant field curvature

edz

Ed, there is some field(edit: edge) curvature, as I know the term. I'm having to look this stuff up, as I'm not familiar with all the technical nomenclature associated with optics.
The edges of both Pentax binoculars will fade out to some degree. If you view off-axis, you can bump the focus making those edges sharp, but degrading the rest of the field a bit.
This is an illustration of "undercorrected astigmatism" that I found. It is somewhat representative of what I see in the night sky, though a bit of an extreme example. The elongated dots(stars) appear only in a narrow band around the edge of the view. If you cropped the outer two vertical rows, and the outermost(top and bottom) horizontal row of the illustration, you get a better idea.

Basically, to my eye, there's a huge sweet spot with soft edges.
I hope I'm accurately portraying this, and may have to study up on some of the terminology so I can better understand what people who give more technical reviews are really saying when they use it.