Help - 8 x 20 or 8 x 32? (1 Viewer)

I’m one more person that doesn’t live close enough to stores to check out lots of binoculars in person. I’m not a birdwatcher but this seems to be the best forum for binoculars. Since I haven’t seen this question yet, maybe it will help some birdwatchers too. I need binoculars for search and rescue; my search dog may alert on something or I may see something move that I need to check it out.

The general recommendation seems to be to spend as much as you can afford. In the $300 to $500 range, more money either buys “better quality” or a larger objective lenses. So, is it better to get a “better” 8 x 20, say a Zeiss Victory Compact or a Nikon Premier LXL or to get a “lesser quality” binocular with a larger objective lenses, say a Zeiss Conquest 8 X 30 or 10 x 25, a Minox BD BR 8 x 32 or a Leupold Katmai 6/8 x 32. (Actually, the Zeiss above $450 are probably too much for my budget, but they are a good comparison.) If I need binoculars in the late afternoon or dusk, should I automatically go with the larger objective lenses, or does the higher quality offset that to some extent. Weight and size are important, too. I don’t want to go much beyond a pound, so 8 x 32’s at 18-19 oz are tops on weight. I don’t have to have binoculars less than 10 oz, though it sounds nice. May be the Vortex Fury 8 x 28, at 12 oz would be a good compromise at less money. Or maybe a reverse porro would be sufficient? Thanks for your insights.

It's up to you and depends on your priorities, really. 8x20 top-end bins (Leica Ultravid, Nikon LXL) have superb optics, fit neatly in the pocket, weight negligible. Eye placement is more critical. Field of View is considerably narrower. (This might be important for Search and Rescue?). Darker at dusk. Some reverse-porro compacts have great optics too, and cost one-fifth of the price, but are slightly bulkier. Opticron Taigas and Nikon Travelite get great reviews. If you go for 8x32, you get much wider Field of View, much more comfortable as regards eye-placement and much brighter at dusk, but you pay more for really good ones and they're not pocketable. They're not particularly heavy, though....most good ones are 600-700 grams. Although as regards cost, try Nikon LXL 8x32, they're excellent value and have superb optics. They cost about the same as Leica 8x20 Ultravids here. I think if someone were trying to Search-for and Rescue me, I'd rather they had a good pair of 8x32's...... Best of Luck, let us know what you decide. (And take up Birdwatching...if you're going to spend a fortune on binos, you might as well make them "multi-purpose"...)

Any quality 8x32 is going to better for you than an 8x20. 8x20's are a pain compared to 8x32's take my word for it because I have had the Leica Ultravids, Trinovids, and the Nikons. I SOLD all of them and bought a Zeiss Conquest 8x32 and let me tell you there is no comparison in any area you want to compare except they will not fit in your pocket. They are under $550.00 if you look around. Of course the 8x32 Zeiss FL or Leica Trinovids would be a little better because of their larger FOV but then you are are getting into more money. 8x20's are NOT for search and rescue they are more pocket size novelties for somebody that already has a normal 8x32 or 8x42 pair of binoculars.

Dennis

I agree with the other contributors on this--the ultra miniatures (8 x20s, 10 x 25s)--are basically toys, and for serious day in and day out use you want full-sized binoculars. I personally own the Zeiss 8x 20. It's good optically, but because of the small exit pupil it is very fiddly to use and the only time I take it out is when carrying full-size binoculars is inconvenient for some reason.

Most people waste a lot of time and money working their way up to the realization that they need to buy a top of the line glass. If I were you, I'd go to Amazon.com right now, go $50 over budget, and buy a pair of Nikon 8x32 SE porros. You'll have optics on a par with the best that money can buy, with a no-fault 25 year warranty, and you're done. I have a pair of waterproof Zeiss FLs that I bought for hunting, which in my case often takes place in water or from a canoe, but they aren't better optically than the Nikons. Keep the SEs out of extended rain exposure and there is no better view to be had.

I carry compacts for work when I need a tiny pair on my belt, but even the best compacts are far less satisfactory than a good pair of full sized bins.

You being a search and rescue guy, I would think rugged and waterproof are requirements in addition to a bright and wide field.
My two bits are to avoid minis and porro prism binos. 8x32 roof prism bins are a good choice, and in the price range you're talking the Pentax SPs would be one pair I'd be looking at. There are others of course.

As has been posted here, this is really a personal choice. For me a lot would depend on how far you go in the field while on the job and how much other equipment you need to carry with you. An 8x20-25 glass will fit in a shirt pocket so if extreme portability is a major concern, that may be the way to go. However, if the ease of use of the optics, in other words, clear, sharp images with minimal hand shake, usable at dawn, dusk, is a concern, then a bigger glass will be better. The larger objective simply collects more light and as such, engineers can do more things in a binocular with more light and bigger prisms and lenses.

I have two binoculars which I think would do a good job for you. The smallest binocular with the best optics for the best price in existence is the Bushnell Custom Elite 7x26. This is too big for a shirt pocket, but seems to weigh nothing when on a harness. Mine is the older Baush & Lomb Custom 7x26 and I use it quite a lot. The optics are first rate. The only drawback is they are somewhat small for extended glassing use, but still better than an 8x20 in that regard. The current price on these is less than $250.

The binocular I have that I would take out the door with me today if I was on a SAR job is a Swift Eaglet 7x36. These were designed as a tactical binocular by Swift in response to Police, Survielance, and SWAT requirements. Swift sells a lot of these binoculars to police departments. They have a full 5+ mm exit pupil, work well in low light, have first rate image clarity and sharpness, and are light enough to be compact. Agan they seem to weigh next to nothing when on a harness. They are big enough to be very comfortable for extended use sessions. I have pretty big hands too. Right now they are right at $410.

I use Eagle Optics for my optics needs. They stock both of the above binoculars. They have a 30 day return period. So, I would get one of each, try them out and send back, for a refund, the one you do not keep. I also would not worry that you will lose anything detail wise with 7x vs 8x. At that magnification level, resolution will win the "what is that?" contest. In fact if I handed you my Swift with a piece of tape over the magnification label, you would not likely guess it at less than 8x. The Swift optics pretty well cream the majority of the compact 30-32mm glass at their price level.

There are other exceptions. One is the Ziess Conquest 8x30, another is the Minox 8x32 BD, and the Vortex Fury in 6.5x32 ( I have one and it is at least as good as the Swift with a wider FOV and superior build quality) or 8x32. The only reason I did not recommend the Fury outright is that the Fury is currently unavailable as Vortex deals with a diopter issue. They will be back on sale probably mid-summer. If the diopter problem was not an issue, a 6.5x32 Fury would be my reccomendation. The 32mm Furys are right at $300. Somebody will likely tell you the Minox 6.5x32 IF is what you need. I personally would avoid IF, unless you do a lot of work from a boat, or aircraft, or other moving platform. Individual Focus binoculars cut the potential usability range of a binocular in about half.

Hi SAR JM;

I agree that the larger bino's are preferred here. I am a fan of the 8x20 Ultravid for a general carry everywhere bino.

That being said, the difference in light transmission from a top line mini to a mid sized mid quality bino is going to be at most 20% while the light gathering from a 20 mm aperture to a 32 mm aperture is going to be about 2.5 times greater.

If someone else’s safety depended on the glass I was carrying, I would have the best and brightest I had available with me.

Best,
Ron

Pentax dcf lv 9x28 is an option.

SAR,

Lots of advice and very good advice at that. I would second the opinions that for SAR activities, you do need light gathering power better than what even the best 8x20 models offer. I own and use the Leica Ultravid 8x20 and appreciate its qualities, but if I were laying in the woods unconscious with a broken leg in the deep dusk and you were searching for me, I'd hope you would be carrying a good 8x30-32 instead.

However, there is one more option I'd like to suggest, especially if you order from a vendor that allows for returns so you can make up your own mind after trying. That is the Canon 10x30 IS. I have done enough testing with both traditional top binoculars and stabilized binoculars to say with some considerable emphasis added that if you really need to be sure of what you are seeing and time is a premium, a stabilized view at 10x is going to give you more than any 8x that is not mounted on a tripod ever could. Also, even though the actual image brightness and light transmission are not as good in the 10x30 Canon than they are in, say, the excellent Zeiss Conquest that has been recommended to you, the stability of the image is a huge advantage when there is so little light that your eyes are struggling to even make out enough detail to see if the binocular is focused properly. When doing low-light tests between the Nikon 10x42 SE and the Canon 10x42 IS L (a much more expensive Canon model, but the same technology), at light levels where I no longer could see any color and was struggling for detail, the Canon enabled me to read text half the size I could decipher with the Nikon.

The 10x30 Canon is not waterproof, though, and it relies on batteries (of which you can always carry spares, of course, and the binocular does work like a normal binocular when batteries have dried of current) so it might not be suitable, but if lives depend on what you can see, I strongly urge you try them out.

Kimmo

Wow! Thanks to everyone for such great advice.

So it sounds like I'm off on a new search for 8 x 32's or something similar. Your advice was clearly confirmed when I found a post on a Cloudy Nights forum from Bob in KY, who had $700 to spend. He started looking at the 8 x 20s in that price range (usual suspects), then compared them to two 8 x 32s (Minox and Pentax) in that price range and the Leupold Katmai 6 X 32. Compared them in many different situations, very fun to read. The Katmai's came out on top. With $700 to spend, and you chose bins for half that.

The link is too long to post. So to find it, it is probably easiest to do a google search for
"cloudy nights" bobinky katmai
That will bring you to one of the pages in the post "Compact roof binoculars: $500 to $700 range?" Go to page 1 to get started.

I need to get some work done today, so I will need to follow up with other comments later. I've found myself reading a lot about binoculars lately. At first, I thought that I should have just taken an extra job for the time that I have spent reading posts and then buy something more expensive. Then I got all of your responses and realized much of my time reading has been well spent.

Thanks!

You can get a nice glass for your $3-500 budget if you shop around. Adorama has the Pentax DCF SP that Kevin Conville recommended earlier(and that I would recommend) for $313.50 shipped on Amazon right now.
http://www.amazon.com/Pentax-DCF-SP-8x32-Binocular/dp/B000093TVO
Tremendous bargain, IMO. This is Nikon Monarch price range, but for a much nicer binocular.
I paid a little more for mine, but now that I've used them for awhile, would willingly pay the $500 that they normally sell for at most dealers. The strap and rainguard that come with them are crap, but easily replaced. I couldn't be happier with the binos themselves.

Pentax 8x32 SPs for that price makes them the obvious choice IMO.
They're a very fine bino at considerably greater price and if I weren't so flush (currently) with bins I'd buy them as an extra.

I received my new 7x42 Ultravids about a week ago so my bino budget is blown for awhile.

Update: Just followed Owen's link to Amazon and they're now $345. + $14. shipping. Still a great price but they're going up.

I have an urge to buy a spare, myself. I don't have the range of experience that a lot of people around here do, and have limited most of my shopping to mid-range bins. Because of that, I'm really not comfortable making a recommendation for someone else, but I'm so happy with the SP that it's hard not to.
I had planned to buy a good binocular for general use, and later maybe get an "alpha bin" with all the bells and whistles, but I honestly don't find myself wanting anything more or "better", and have dropped that plan.
Whenever I look at mid-range binoculars, it seems like there is always something, maybe just one thing, that stands out and keeps me from being satisfied with them. I think what endears the SPs to me is that they don't have that. No noticeable faults. I'm sure you can spend a lot more and get something with a little better color separation, glare control, or resolution, a little wider FOV, etc. but I've yet to think "I wish ____ was different" when using them, except for low-light viewing where something with a larger objective like a 8x42 of similar quality renders a brighter image.
I bought the 12.5x50 version of this model, and the higher magnification does bring out what are probably some shortcomings compared to higher end models, but at 8x I just don't see any of them.

edit: just saw Kevin's edit regarding the price change. Apparently the 5 Adorama had in stock sold since yesterday. That was quick!

Go for the 8x32
I have some 10x42s but mostly use my 8x32s
I may get some more..even better ones some day