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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

New Zeiss SF 8x42--flare? (1 Viewer)

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darinb

New member
I purchased a new Zeiss 8x42 SF (black) in early this year and I'm not quite sure I'm seeing what I'd hope to see. The bins are outstanding in every way except I'm getting an awful lot of flare or veiling.

As the sun approaches the edge of the view (but still quite a ways away) I'm seeing a pronounced loss of contrast, like I'm looking through a mist. With bright overcast skies I'm seeing a pronounced semi-circular whit-ish glow from the bottom of the view.

I'm a photographer and have numerous modern Zeiss photo lenses and these have no problem in the same conditions.

Is this just the nature of binoculars, user error, or did they forget to coat something inside?

Note, When I'm pointing near the sun, if I shade the lenses with my hand the problem goes away.

I don't have easy access to a retail store to compare with other units or brands...

Thoughts?

--Darin
 
I can produce the same effects that you describe with my SF when holding the bino in a way that the eyes are slightly off-axis against the eyepieces.
So one possible explanation is in fact user "error". You may want to experiment a little and change not only the way you place the bino before your eyes, but also the amount by which you extend the eyecups.
But other explanations are possible. The SF is generally recognized as well shielded, and I like it fot that, so a comparison with another unit would be useful after all.
 
darinb said:
I purchased a new Zeiss 8x42 SF (black) in early this year and I'm not quite sure I'm seeing what I'd hope to see. The bins are outstanding in every way except I'm getting an awful lot of flare or veiling.

As the sun approaches the edge of the view (but still quite a ways away) I'm seeing a pronounced loss of contrast, like I'm looking through a mist. With bright overcast skies I'm seeing a pronounced semi-circular whit-ish glow from the bottom of the view.

--Darin
Click to expand...

You are not alone seeing this.
Leica Noctivid, Nikon EDG, Zeiss HT seem to be better in glare/flare handling but, reports vary a bit.

As noted by Canip, correct eye positioning is important to minimize the effect. It might be a reason why some see this as a problem and some don't. Also might 10x and 8x models differ. And most people perhaps don't look close to the sun with their bins that often anyway. o:)
 
Hello darinb,

You described very accurately what I see in my Zeiss HT 10x42!!! Less pronounced, but still present, in my HT 8x42. I am looking for a Zeiss FL 10x42 to compare with the HT. I owned one of this FL before the HT but not both at the same time! If I remember well, the FL was way better than the HT, talking about 10x42.
MY Habicht 10x40 is, not much but clearly, better than MY HT in veiling glare control.
Recently, as I wrote in the Leica forum, I tried the L Noctivid vs. MY Z HT. The difference about veiling glare control in favor of the Noctivid I see, was really amazing...!
As you said, in all other, my HT is outstanding!!
Good report!

PHA
 
Hi Darin,
I see something similar in a very early Nikon Monarch HG 8x42.
Large arcs of flare/glare.
It is awful approaching the Sun hidden behind a roofline.
I think the sample binocular I have is awful for the price. Might be O.K. for £200 not for £800.
Also excessive false colour at the edge of the field.

Most others think that the 8x42 Nikon Monarch HG is great.

Lens hoods might help you although not with my Monarch HG 8x42.

My 1967 Minolta SRT 101 with 58mm f/1.4 lens was fantastic photographing into the Sun.

Have we advanced in 50 years? Not much if at all.
 
Of all the binoculars I have seen, the Nocitvid comes closest to being completely free of flare or veiling - by a pretty clear margin as well.

The SF is more like what most alphas do in this respect. Not bad but not exceptionally good either.

Kimmo
 
Hi Kimmo,

Are you able to quantify angles between binocular and the sun for the current crop of Alphas before crescent glare, and veiling glare kicks in? :cat:

I always find it a little bit annoying that the majority of the forum never talk in specific angles - we might as well be asking Eskimos how cold is it today?!! About as useful as counting molar teeth in chickens!!! :king:

For interest, when out in the field without a protractor etc, I use a very simple method of making a right angle out of my 2 outstretched arms, and then halving, and quartering from there - ie 45°, 22.5° etc, and it's fairly easy to do fractions in between eg. dividing 45° into thirds - 2/3rds is 30°, 1/3rd is 15° ..... a pretty handy ready reckoner I reckon! :) ..... :t:

What do you think?


Chosun :gh:
 
Agree, Kimmo. And, to me, this is not a small atribute, by the way...being all others first class, of course!
 
Hi Chosun,

I am not Kimmo...but, I will give you my point of view:
I hate ANY veiling glare at ANY angle!
Whith the Noctivid I saw, I looked almost AT the sun, and didn't see ANY glare.

PHA
 
Hi Chosun,

I am not Kimmo...but, I will give you my point of view:
I hate ANY veiling glare at ANY angle!
Whith the Noctivid I saw, I looked almost AT the sun, and didn't see ANY glare.

PHA
 
Chosun,
As I have said before. There are 41,253 square degrees in a sphere.
A hemisphere is 20,000 plus square degrees.
Flare or hot spots from the Sun can occur from at least 3,000 square degrees.
It is almost impossible to test every binocular in all positions. I reckon 10 square degree positions, hundreds of them have to be tested for every binocular.

I think that your question has no reliable answer.

Normally I test about 200 square degrees centrally for problems.
Having cars go by at night helps a lot outside the central area as they make ideal moving spotlights with their headlights.

Most binoculars are poor regarding flare, but some are good.
Currently my favourites are Leica 8x32 BA, Leica 12x50 Ultravid, Zeiss 10x42 HD Conquest. Canon 10x42 L IS and 18x50 IS. But I haven't tried many of the so called alphas.

P.S.
In addition to hundreds of positions per binocular, I think one needs to test different light sources from an average full moon to sun brightness.
That is 7 different light sources each ten times brighter than the next one.
This means thousands of tests per binocular.

Enjoy yourself doing the tests. :)
 
Last edited:
Binastro said:
Chosun,
As I have said before. There are 41,253 square degrees in a sphere.
A hemisphere is 20,000 plus square degrees.
Flare or hot spots from the Sun can occur from at least 3,000 square degrees.
It is almost impossible to test every binocular in all positions. I reckon 10 square degree positions, hundreds of them have to be tested for every binocular.

I think that your question has no reliable answer.

Normally I test about 200 square degrees centrally for problems.
Having cars go by at night helps a lot outside the central area as they make ideal moving spotlights with their headlights.

Most binoculars are poor regarding flare, but some are good.
Currently my favourites are Leica 8x32 BA, Leica 12x50 Ultravid, Zeiss 10x42 HD Conquest. Canon 10x42 L IS and 18x50 IS. But I haven't tried many of the so called alphas.

P.S.
In addition to hundreds of positions per binocular, I think one needs to test different light sources from an average full moon to sun brightness.
That is 7 different light sources each ten times brighter than the next one.
This means thousands of tests per binocular.

Enjoy yourself doing the tests. :)
Click to expand...

There is an ISO standard for testing veiling glare in optics, not sure how relevant it is for some of the problems in bins though (prism effect etc). but I think it's used.

http://www.imatest.com/docs/veilingglare/

Adding som lens hoods might help...
 
Last edited:
Chosun Juan said:
Hi Kimmo,

Are you able to quantify angles between binocular and the sun for the current crop of Alphas before crescent glare, and veiling glare kicks in? :cat:

I always find it a little bit annoying that the majority of the forum never talk in specific angles - we might as well be asking Eskimos how cold is it today?!! About as useful as counting molar teeth in chickens!!! :king:

For interest, when out in the field without a protractor etc, I use a very simple method of making a right angle out of my 2 outstretched arms, and then halving, and quartering from there - ie 45°, 22.5° etc, and it's fairly easy to do fractions in between eg. dividing 45° into thirds - 2/3rds is 30°, 1/3rd is 15° ..... a pretty handy ready reckoner I reckon! :) ..... :t:

What do you think?


Chosun :gh:
Click to expand...



A high, bright sun often produces very little glare or flare. I find even some of my cheapest optics fare well here, getting very close to the sun without flare. Strong morning or evening sun, with lots of scatter, tend to be the worst for glare and this is what I use to test my binos.
 
I agree with James. Bright sun at a close angle is not the best test for veiling glare for several reasons. The photos at the bottom of this post show how much worse the problem can appear to the eye when the field of image producing light is relatively dark compared to the internal reflections that cause the glare. Try looking into a dark area under a bright twilight sky.

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3251084&postcount=1
 
Binastro, Vespo, James, Henry, thanks for the responses. Yes, I do usually test against a lowish morning or afternoon sun. Good tip about the dark central object (or deep shadow) Henry :t: I shall try and find suitable things under field conditions.

For reference, the best bins I have extensively 'measured' (roughly) in the way I described is of the order of ~ 20°, and the worst the Swift Audubon 8.5x44 820 ED porro at about twice this. It sounds like the Noctivid is quantifiably better than the best of all current offerings. Anyone care to offer a rough measurement of the NV, HT, SF, SV, EDG etc ???


Chosun :gh:
 
I can't offer any concrete numbers or anything but I will say that I suffer far, far more sun flare (if I am not misusing the term - not veiling glare as I understand it, but flare from the sun and washed out images when looking within, say 20 degrees of directly at the sun) with Swaro SV 10x42 than I do with Zeiss Victory SF 8x42 or Zeiss Conquest HD 8x42. I need to read this thread in more detail, also curious to learn more as to how various optical design choices (field of view, eye relief, glare control, etc) trade off...
 
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