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Tripod and head advice please (1 Viewer)

robski

Well-known member
I am thinking of upgrading my cheap wobbly £40 Velbon Tripod (I must admit it was rarely used ) now I have upgraded my lenses. So I am looking at supporting my 20D 300mm f4 + 1.4 & 24-70mm f2.8. From the forum I have gathered that Manfrotto is the one to get. I don't go on very long hikes so weight is not as important as being rock solid and provide flexiblity for shooting from different angles and heights. So a general purpose Wildlife and landscapes tripod is what I am after.

Based on that I am considering the 190 PRO + 486rc2 kit for £140-150 mark.

I am also tempted by the benbo trekker, but is that difficult to handle ?

Your experience with these products would be gratefully received.

Robert
 
I have a 190 pro and I am happy with it. I do also have the 486rc2 ball head and it is a right pig to use with a long lens (I use a Canon 350 with 100-400 zoom) and I find it hard to get a level horizon - certainly in the heat of the moment trying to line up on a bird.

I also have the basic 3030 pan/tilt head which works okay with both the camera and a scope, but the nicest is the 128RC fluid head. Which of course is the biggest and heaviest, natch.

You will find the 190 heavy to carry for more than a mile or so. Not so much because it is heavy as such, but it seems to want to gouge bits out of your legs when carried with a tripod strap. If carried slung over your shoulder classic birder-style that might be okay.

Do try and play with the ball head and the weight distribution of your camera. The ball head excels on my ErgoRest for use in a hide or from a car window, as it has the smallest vertical height above the mounting. But I hate it on the tripod - that might just be one of those subjective things. It is just unwieldy and flaps about until I lock it off, where I find one axis is at an angle. Micro-adjustments are not what this head scores with - I'd hate to use it with my scope!
 
Thanks for the input ermine.

I am glad your happy with the tripod - I tend to walk less than a mile if I have a lot of gear with me. Normally it's park the car up or I am on my son's mountain bike.

I have no experience of ball heads and your experience was one of my concerns on the ease of use. I was leaning towards ball heads as opposed to pan tilt as a few times I've nearly poked my eye out with the handle. The pan tilt head on my cheap tripod seems to be the main weakens on steadiness and thought that ball heads would be inherently steadier.

I'd be interested to here how general purpose the ErgoRest could be - maybe 3rd on my list. At this stage I don't forsee me getting a scope. I am a photographer with a general interest and love of birds.

I will sure look into the 128RC - I am trying to avoid buying something that I and everbody else will just hate. I think there is only one photograhic shop nearby that stocks decent tripods and I just hate asking somebody to demostrate.
 
I have the Manfrotto Carbon 441 and am very happy with it. The worst investment was the ball head 448, almost useless for digi-scoping. Very difficult to adjust on the bird, and there is always a little give once I tighten it. Went back to the old pan-and-tilt.
 
the ergorest is fab for two photography applications, though it can alse be a pig to level until you're used to it -

one for shooting from inside a car, as your controls are inside the car, no flailing about outside for the birds to see and sit and laugh as they fly off like with some other car mounts

the other app that nobody seems to make much of is it allows you to go low on a halfway firm surface. I don't have a beanbag - maybe that's what others use for these apps.

it also makes an okay hide support. All of these with the ball mount - for the low profile I'll accept the sucky ergonomics of the ball head. I can't help feeling I should switch the head for a 234RC monopod head with only one degree of freedom as the Ergorest can do the other - which would save me 250g.

FWIW ball heads seem to polarise opinion. The problem feels to be that the centre of rotation is very close to the camera base, which means you have to exert a lot of force to stop it pitching forward before you lock the ball off, even using the lens ring. Where the centre of rotation is further from the camera base, you don't need so much force and fine adjustment is easier. Of course that means the tripod mount to camera base height has to be larger, which isn't good in a bird hide or a car wherere vertical height is constrained.

If you're going to take the tripod on a mountain bike I'd also say the 190 is rather long fully collapsed - you might want to consider a 4-section tripod.

The pro is the feature than allows you to stick the column out at 90degrees, which is great for copy stand apps. I do feel this might weaken the mechanical integrity of the tripod a tad. If you don't need that feature, you can save 200grams and ten quid and maybe gain some rigidity...
 
Thanks Hanno & ermine.

All very informative information. I think you have convinced me that going for a ball will be a big mistake. I will take your other comments onboard and have a rethink.

Thanks again Robert
 
You may wish to consider the 055 series, as they do seem to be a bit more solid than the 190's ... they can take a substantial load as well, if you ever wish to get a bigger lens. Unfortunately they do weigh a bit more than the 190.
A fluid head will be ideal for your needs.

cheers,
Andy
 
The 190 is a fine tripod, but the 055 is bigger and a bit more solid, I certainly prefer it.

I have not had much experience using ball heads, so cannot comment on them, but I can tell you how good the 128 head is. It's rock solid, easy to use and at £59 is excellent value. A 055 & 128 kit should cost you about £150 and would be an excellent buy. As for the handle poking you in the eye... you can alter the position of the handle very easily, you could even turn it round if it was easier for you.
 
Thanks Andy & Postcard

Well I've been scanning the web and paid a visit to the local tripod shop to eye ball them for myself. It looks like it might cost me a bit over the £150 but as long as I am 100% happy I don't mind.

I've been looking at Fluid heads as Andy suggested. They did not have a 128rc but did have a 700rc2 which appears to be suitable. Any thoughts on this head or would the 701rc2 be better. What exactly is the advantage of Fluid heads ?

I am afraid the Manfrotto website is pretty poor.

A ball head they had was the 322 which I liked the Idea of but it's movement was a bit stiff and for £100 I'd expect it to be alot better.


Robert
 
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robski said:
Thanks Andy & Postcard

Well I've been scanning the web and paid a visit to the local tripod shop to eye ball them for myself. It looks like it might cost me a bit over the £150 but as long as I am 100% happy I don't mind.

I've been looking at Fluid heads as Andy suggested. They did not have a 128rc but did have a 700rc2 which appears to be suitable. Any thoughts on this head or would the 701rc2 be better. What exactly is the advantage of Fluid heads ?

I am afraid the Manfrotto website is pretty poor.

A ball head they had was the 322 which I liked the Idea of but it's movement was a bit stiff and for £100 I'd expect it to be alot better.


Robert
The 700rc2 is somewhat of a light duty fluid head, I think you would be advised to purchase the 701rc2 instead (I personally like that head, but I think some peoplehave reservations)... but I'm sure there are still plenty of 128rc heads around.

A fluid head, is more about it's type than the fact that it may have fluid inside to dampen the movements. Fluid heads are generally two-way design, i.e. you cannot flip it over to take portrait format images (irrelevant if you have a lens with a tripod collar that allows you to rotate the lens+ camera in it's collar).
The movement is dampened but adjustable and feels smooth and 'fluid' ;) When the drag controls are set-up right for the camera+lens, you just point the camera and can let go...no need to tighten/lock anything.

You should try and get your local camera shop to allow you a hands-on demo with your gear.

cheers,
Andy
 
Thanks again Andy you have been a great help.

I suppose then it's down to choosing a 128rc or 701rc2.
I am inclined to spend the extra on the 701rc2 as it is labeled Highly recommended on the Ware House express site and seems a neat design.

On Friday I was talking to a guy who had 2 Manfrotto 190 one for each car ( how the other half live ) for his scope. He has a new one which I believe has the 701rc2 head but he had his old one (not clips on the legs) with him that day. The head on it looked like the 128rc and he said if he loosen the tilt tightening screw too much the scope would take a nose dive.

The 300mm F4 only balances nicely on the tripod mount once the 1.4 TC and 20D are attached. So I think the 701rc2 counter balance feature could be an advantage over the 128rc.

Robert
 
robski said:
The 300mm F4 only balances nicely on the tripod mount once the 1.4 TC and 20D are attached. So I think the 701rc2 counter balance feature could be an advantage over the 128rc.

Robert
Yep, and you can shift the centre of balance with the sliding plate on it as well... the even better option, though maybe more than you require and more expensive (certainly if purchased new) is the Manfrotto 501.

I'm not a big fan of clip leg locks... it's a personal thing but the noise they make is not particularly helpful when close to the subject.

cheers,
Andy
 
I was at least 10/10 happy with my carbon fibre Feisol www.feisol.com and frankly, despite many good models out there, I just wouldn't waste my time now looking at anything else. Super light, of course, yet highly flexible, great build and very stable.

I have a MANFROTTO 488 RC2 ballhead which I also place on my Feisol monopod now I have a IS long lens. The 488 is superb value at £60 and has a nice panning action which can be locked for the monopod. Strong and easy to use.

About the best all round value and performance combo I found when I was researching.
 
Andy Bright said:
Yep, and you can shift the centre of balance with the sliding plate on it as well... the even better option, though maybe more than you require and more exoensive (certainly if purchased new) is the Manfrotto 501.

I'm not a big fan of clip leg locks... it's a personal thing but the noise they make is not particularly helpful when close to the subject.

cheers,
Andy
I use the 190pro with the 701rc2 head, it works well with my 350d and 75-300 zoom. It is not so good when used with the Swaro 65 scope, see my solution below;

http://birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=35743

jim
 
Hi Robert

I'd be another oen who would not recommend the 700rc head, it is a lightweight head and I doubt you'd be happy with it. The 128 is much more sturdy, the problem of the 128 tilting forward can happen, but only if you loosen it too much, it's not a problem I ever had and I've used a 128 for years.
The 701rc is a much better head than the 700rc (feels much more solid), though I'm not convinced it's worth £30 more than the 128... if the sliding section on the 701 appeals it is definitely worth checking out the 501 head. The 501 has a larger moving section and is an amazing head. It's big and heavy, but is absolutely rock solid. I use a 501 head with 055 legs and love the set up, the head is great to use both with the scope and the camera.
 
LOL - This project is getting more and more expensive by the minute. Yes I'd noticed the 501. I am just cautious of going into over kill. I did notice they had some nice pro setup for £500 odd.

Looking at the detail of the tripods I see an option of stainless steel feet, how useful do you think they are ?

So far a model of the 055 is top of the list.

If it was a choice of 701rc2 and 128rc and price was of no consequence which would you pick.

If I can keep the grand total under £200 and end up with a good setup then I'd be a happy man.

Robert
 
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robski said:
If it was a choice of 701rc2 and 128rc and price was of no consequence which you pick.

For me it would be the 128 - I have used this head for a number of years, it's what I use on my second tripod.

robski said:
If I can keep the grand total under £200 and end up with a good setup then I'd be a happy man.

Have a look around there are some good deals to be had...

Warehouse have a mail order return 501 head for £99, you should be able to get 055 legs for about the same, so it would just come in under £200. This is what my main set up is and I am very happy with it - the head might seem a bit over the top, but it will handle just about any lens you'd ever want to put on it.

I also noticed that Cley Spy have a secondhand 055/128 nat kit (the green version) for £120, which would be a good buy if you decide on the 128 head.

Here is a picture showing the 501 and the 128 side by side, gives you an idea of the size. The 501 is not too much bigger, but is noticably more solid with a big lens. Second picture shows the 501 with 4kg of camera and lens on top...
 

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Yep, much in agreement. If you can stretch to a 501, then it will be the best of them. It may be overkill at the moment but it will cope with most lenses that you may upgrade to in the future... and overkill isn't a bad thing where stability is involved with any set-up, greater mass always helps.

I'd still rate the 701rc2 above the 128, in terms of control...the drag control seems superior and you can genuinely lock everything up with the controls if needed. The sliding plate doesn't move a great deal but it doesn't need to in order to make life easier... the internal springing also makes life more comfortable. I'm not so keen on the QR plate release system on the 701rc2 though, and in some ways the 128 does seem 'classier' to me.

Basically, any of these 3 will serve you fine... just that the 501 will be more upgrade-proof

cheers
Andy
 
Thanks for taking the time Postcard.

Yes the 501 sure does look neat. At this stage I think the 501 could be an over kill as I am uncertain if would go for or could afford a good 500mm in the near future.

I maybe try a x2 on my 300mm F4 first.

I think a 055 and 128rc will be a good start especially if I can pick up for sub £150.

Robert
 
I'm sure you won't be disappointed if you go for the 055/128, it is a great set up.

One advantage of the 128 head over the 701, is that it has a safety catch for the qr plate. You need to turn the safety catch before you can turn the main lever to free the qr plate. The 701 does not have this feature and I have heard of incidents where the qr lever has caught on a branch and opened, the scope/camera has then fallen off the head...
 

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