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Help with BIF problems! (1 Viewer)

DOC REED

Well-known member
Hi all.Can anyone help me with some advice.I have canon eos 400d with prime lens 300mmf 2.8 IS.With 1.4x or 2x extenders flight shots seem to be impossible. Do most photographers keep a prime lens only on for BIF shots or am I likely doing something wrong?I tend to use lens wide open and centre AF spot,continous shooting.

Any useful advicewould be really appreciated; I suspect i'm expecting too much with extenders attached.

Cheers

Paul
 
This may help - http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1949

But also realise that the 400D is not the state of the art for AF performance and the photographer's own skills/talents play a significant part in getting results reliably. I first started shooting BIF around 2.5 years ago and I still have a long way to go to get reliable results. A more advanced camera can do so much for you, but if you don't aim the focus point accurately, or fail to focus at the right moment, or have inadequate lighting, or have the camera set up poorly, the results are going to disappoint.

Without question I think practice makes perfect. Don't run before you can walk. As boring as they may be, practice on birds such as gulls. That's what I do. Then practice some more.

Good light will help, because you can keep ISO low for good IQ, and shutter speeds high for crisp shots. Be wary of shooting at 300mm and f/2.8. When pixel peeping you may find that your DOF is not sufficient and a whole bird may well not be in focus from wing tip to wing tip. In good light (sunny day) try for exposure settings of around 1/1600, f/5.6, 200 ISO or even 1/3200, f/5.6, 400 ISO. Try to stay on the sunny side of the bird. If you end up on the shady side you may struggle to get a good exposure and your image may look quite flat and drab.

I suggest you practice with no more than the 1.4X teleconverter fitted. 600mm of glass is probably a bit much to handle, especially when building skills. If you can get the frame mostly filled at 300mm, without the teleconverter, then start there. The longer and slower your glass the harder the job becomes, both for photographer and camera.

What sort of birds are you trying to shoot, and at what sort of distance? How big are the birds in the frame? How fast do they fly? What is their angle of approach? What sort of background - clear sky, rippling water, busy woodland, or something else. You don't need to answer, but just consider whether you are jumping in at the deep end. Large, slow birds are easier to photography than small, quick birds. A plain background is easier to deal with than a busy, distracting one. Birds flying across your field of view place less demand on the AF, but more on your own ability to pan/track accurately. With birds coming head on the AF faces a greater challenge but your own task may be a bit simpler.

One thing that is almost certainly true is that birds which are too small in the frame, requiring substantial cropping, are likely to lead to disappointing results. The more you crop the more you expose flaws in the whole image capture process, so try to get close and fill the frame as much as you can.

If you would like to post some unedited, uncropped examples, preferably with full EXIF intact, perhaps people can offer more specific advice.

EDIT : p.s. sometimes IS can be a curse rather than a blessing and I have begun to turn IS off more often for BIF photography. The problem with IS is that it tries to combat movement. If you are trying to track a bird you can sometimes find yourself having a fight with the IS. Mode 2 can sometimes help, if you have a smooth panning motion, but if your birds are swooping and wheeling then the IS will probably do more harm than good. If your shutter speed is high enough - say 1/1000 and upwards - then you may get better results without IS than with. Try it.
 
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Paul, the AF with a 2x attached can be sluggish but there should be no particular problems with a 1.4tc as the AF is still very quick, quicker than some bare lenses.Of course the big thing is keeping the focus point over the bird. I have not got the 400D but it was fine with the 40D as long as the point was over the bird (but the second you lose it it would lock on to something else)
BTW I always leave the IS on mode 2 and it seems to work fine with the 300/2.8 but by all means try it without for flyers.
 
Paul, I forgot to mention that when using a converter, especially a 2x it really speeds up the AF if you use one of the focus limiters - for BIF I almost always use 6.4mtres to infinity. When using with a 2x I stop down to f8 if the light permits.
I have now found that with the 7D and a focus limiter turned on I can get flight shots with a 2x on board fairly comfortable - this is down to the 7D's improved AF system no doubt.
 
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Roy, I'm not sure you can infer much about the AF performance of a 400D from the performance of your 7D. That's why I suggested sticking at 300 or 420mm and not 600mm, at least for now. If Paul is having difficulties then wielding a 600mm f/5.6 lens for BIF is probably not going to make things easier. Baby steps :)

Of course, we don't know precisely the nature of the problems he is having, so it's all wild guesses at the moment. Pics with EXIF, or a more precise description of his difficulties might help.
 
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Roy, I'm not sure you can infer much about the AF performance of a 400D from the performance of your 7D. .
I obviously agree which is why I did not even mention the 7D in my first post (if you read it you will see I only mentioned the 400D and 40D) - I only mentioned it to back-up my suggestion about using a focus limiter.
It also backs up something you mentioned that the 400D is not perhaps the state of art when it comes to AF.
I only contributed to the thread because I happen to have a 300/2.8.
 
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Thanks to both of you ,all the comments are welcome and helpful.I'll upload a couple of recent attempts . The 400D maybe part of the problem;Its a good camera but I am forever losing the AF for BIF .Time to start saving !Roy the restricters do work...when I remember .I tend to 'ramble' bird ,so maybe I need to go somewhere,get set up ,and aim for BIF shots only for a session.

I am particularly interested in Barn Owls ;Last summer had pair on my local patch ,regularly hunting late evenings ....but just couldnt nail one to my satisfaction.Some were passable .. but not like some of the BIF images you can see in the gallery.

I think you have both made valid points .When hand holding 300 with x2 , I manage 'static' shots no problem .As I say ,I walk a lot when out birding.I accept there must be a lot of technique involved and will just keep on practising.Interestin point re IS....trial leaving it off worth a go.

Now.... find a couple of shots to post.

thanks again!
 
pics

sorry ,the owl shots are on disc and cant access at moment .Here are 4 recent attempts though;and its fair to say these are the better ones !

They are unedited other than resized for web ;I wouldn't know about EXIF data.Do I need to add this on somehow?
 

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sorry ,the owl shots are on disc and cant access at moment .Here are 4 recent attempts though;and its fair to say these are the better ones !

They are unedited other than resized for web ;I wouldn't know about EXIF data.Do I need to add this on somehow?
The EXIF data is automatically in-bedded in the image unless you use something like 'save for the web' which will strip it out (which you appear to have done as they are missing).

The main problem with these pics, especially the Buzzard, is the metering which is a whole new problem attached to BIF. with birds that are so small in the frame like these you cannot rely on the Camera to meter correctly (it is metering mainly for the sky and not the bird so you get underexposure on dark birds) you have to dial in some exposure compensation (or better still use Manual exposure).

Just my 2p's worth which, no doubt others will say is a load of tosh but there we are.

BTW, I reckon that mallard pic will crop and clean-up very nicely.
 
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Paul, thanks for posting some examples. EXIF is an integral part of the image data when you capture an image. It includes all sorts of information like the camera model, lens, shutter speed, aperture, ISO and a host of other stuff including the focus points used and all sorts of other settings. When you edit/save images sometimes the data is kept intact, sometimes some goes missing, and sometimes everything gets wiped clean. Having EXIF data available can often make diagnosis of a problem a lot easier.

In your case I think we can get by without. I think the problem you are facing is likely to be a classic problem that so many of us face. The camera is part of the problem, because it does not make things easy and therefore requires improved skills/abilities from the photographer. A more advanced camera can make it easier to get the shot.

Assuming the 400D has AF attributes in common with the xxD series of cameras there are two weaknesses common to all of them....

1. There is a large gap between the centre AF point and the outer AF points - a sort of no-man's land. If your subject is small in the frame, as these examples all are, you cannot use "all points" because if the subject drifts off the centre point it will get lost by the AF system before it reaches an outer point. That means you are stuck using centre point only. That brings me on to the second weakness....

2. Certainly in the xxD bodies, and I assume the xxxD bodies, if the active AF point loses track of the subject (i.e. your aim is poor) then it will very quickly go searching to find where the subject is, and will rack focus back and forth to find it. This means you only have to slip off the subject briefly and your focus will go to pot. If you get the AF point back onto the bird quickly then the camera may recover quickly, but if you squeezed off a shot whilst off the bird the probability is that the shot will be OOF. This is where fast reactions and bump focusing can help. I use back button focusing on my cameras, rather than focusing with the shutter button. If I lose aim on the bird then I very quickly release the AF button, hopefully before the camera has a chance to become defocused. Once I have the AF point back over the bird I can resume focusing once more. Meanwhile, I can retain a half press on the shutter button in order to keep the IS spinning away, assuming I am using IS.

The benefit that comes with the 5D and 5D2 (not usually regarded as good birding cameras) is that they have a series of invisible AF assist points surrounding the centre point. These can be enabled or disabled, but if enabled will effectively increase the size of your centre point and make it easier to keep focus on the bird, even if your aim is a bit wobbly. This should work well for birds against blue sky. With busy backgrounds the results are not so cut and dried.

With cameras like the 7D and 1 series bodies the advances in AF go even further. Not only do you have the benefit of optional assist points, but you also have the ability to delay how quickly the camera gets fed up and goes searching for its subject, if you lose aim on the bird. This can be a life saver, especially if your reactions are not so quick.

So, with your 400D you don't have it easy. What's worse, the AF is probably not as snappy as the better specified cameras, so if/when you do lose your target it might take a bit longer to bring it back into sharp focus again. All of this places greater demands on your own skills.

If we look at the images you posted, and find the centre of each image, it appears that in two of the images your AF point was not actually over the subject, and even allowing a little latitude for the size of the AF point, I think you have missed perfect focus on the shots. Certainly that is the case for the small flock. In cases where you have a busy background, such as woods and trees, the challenge becomes even harder.

EDIT : I've just seen Roy's post. I was so focused on "focus" that I missed exposure completely, or chose to ignore it. Roy has picked up on that, so between us I think you have some good advice to work with. :)

p.s. I'm a glutton for manual exposure. I hate autoexposure because usually it is a pain in the butt, especially for birding.

p.p.s. The quantity, quality and direction of light makes a big difference as well. I like bright conditions, and I like my light source somewhere behind me. However, the sun's height in the sky can make a big difference to results too, affecting exposure considerations as well as the actual appearance of the image. I prefer my sun to be coming in from a lowish angle, thus providing side lighting and perhaps lighting the underside of the bird as much as the top side. The closer to summer we get, and the closer to midday you shoot, the higher the sun gets, leading to strong top lighting and strong shadows underneath. I find that a lower sun makes for much more successful captures. Of course, top lighting is fine, if your bird presents itself at the right angle, but those angles are harder to come by and may limit the hit rate. In your examples the lighting for the ducks looks good, for the gull it looks OK, although I might prefer more light under the wing. For the buzzard it's really just not there. The exposure is one thing, but your bird is not lit. You have the shadow side.
 

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WoW ! Thanks for the free tutorial to both of you .Time to practice more ,maybe stick 400D for a bit on the basis if I learn with it then at least i'll be pushing for my own technique to improve!
 
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