2014 Nikon Warranty Changes- USA (1 Viewer)

Look at it from the manufacturers side….

So, if a company is doing well, for the moment, and are kind to offer, but not obliged to, for a while, a service not specified in the warranty of the product, to fix customer products at no cost or a small fee, a service rendered as long as the company can afford it or want to give it for some reason, what would you call/name this kind of service that can be terminated at will ?
Maybe “Temporary good-will service” only mentioned on the company home page as long as they are kind to give it ?

It seems that to call this kind of temporary service I suggested above a “No-fault policy” and put a sticker on the products is not a good idea since customers will think it will last forever….

I think Nikon No-fault policy has only been given to one country in the whole world...USA, is that correct ?



I tried to search after some definitions:

No-fault compensation http://thelawdictionary.org/no-fault-compensation/
Without having to prove any other party was at fault in an accident, an aggrieved party is awarded compensation. Workmen's compensation is no-fault compensation. It is a legal rule in some jurisdictions. like New Zealand. Also refer to no fault law.

Insurance http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/insurance
A contract is considered to be insurance if it distributes risk among a large number of persons through an enterprise that is engaged primarily in the business of insurance. Warranties or service contracts for merchandise, for example, do not constitute insurance. They are not issued by insurance companies, and the risk distribution in the transaction is incidental to the purchase of the merchandise. Warranties and service contracts are thus exempt from strict insurance laws and regulations.

No-fault insurance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-fault_insurance
In its broadest sense, no-fault insurance is any type of insurance contract under which insureds are indemnified for losses by their own insurance company, regardless of fault in the incident generating losses. In this sense, it is no different from first-party coverage. However, the term "no-fault" is most commonly used in the context of state/provincial automobile insurance laws in the United States, Canada, and Australia, in which a policyholder (and his/her passengers) are not only reimbursed by the policyholder’s own insurance company without proof of fault, but also restricted in the right to seek recovery through the civil-justice system for losses caused by other parties

Policy http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/policy
The general principles by which a government is guided in its management of public affairs, or the legislature in its measures. A general term used to describe all contracts of insurance.
As applied to a law, ordinance, or Rule of Law, the general purpose or tendency considered as directed to the welfare or prosperity of the state or community.

Policy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Policy
Policy differs from rules or law. While law can compel or prohibit behaviors (e.g. a law requiring the payment of taxes on income), policy merely guides actions toward those that are most likely to achieve a desired outcome.

Warranty http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/warranty
An assurance, promise, or guaranty by one party that a particular statement of fact is true and may be relied upon by the other party.
Warranties are used in a variety of commercial situations. In many instances a business may voluntarily make a warranty. In other situations the law implies a warranty where no express warranty was made. Most warranties are made with respect to real estate, insurance, and sales and leases of goods and services.

No-fault policy on Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=no-fault+policy&title=Special:Search
The page "No-fault policy" does not exist. You can ask for it to be created, but consider checking the search results below to see whether the topic is already covered.


No-fault policy did show on top at Google search only concerning employees and cars, connected to insurances.

Anders

Hello Pileatus. I apologize if I'm making a mountain of a molehill. I'm not referring to any specific instance or problem with Nikon products. I'm just offering my thoughts for the benefit of any Nikon users out there whose binoculars may have included written references to the No Fault Policy, who may be concerned about the status of their rights, in light of Nikon's recent statements.

Hello Binoseeker. My recollection is that No Fault insurance became popular in the US back in the 1980s in the automobile insurance field. Previously, if an insured had an auto accident, his insurer would scrutinize the circumstances of the accident to determine if the insured had been culpable in the auto accident, in order to determine if it had grounds to deny the insured's claim. With No Fault policies, the insurer generally agreed to pay claims regardless of any culpability on the insured's part. Nowadays, this sort of policy is well established in the auto insurance industry, but perhaps not so in other areas. Of course, this does not prevent any company from offering this sort of coverage if they so choose.

In this vein, Nikon (and also Zeiss) apparently invented a new term called No Fault Policy for their products. I think we are both in agreement that, if Nikon didn't intend to honor this sort of representation well into the future, then they probably should not have written it on either paper or box. It probably would have been a much better idea to simply offer a traditional warranty that only covered manufacturing defects, but then quietly (and unofficially) been lenient towards users whose binoculars were obviously damaged through their own misuse.

peatmoss said:

Hello Pileatus. I apologize if I'm making a mountain of a molehill. I'm not referring to any specific instance or problem with Nikon products. I'm just offering my thoughts for the benefit of any Nikon users out there whose binoculars may have included written references to the No Fault Policy, who may be concerned about the status of their rights, in light of Nikon's recent statements.

Click to expand...

No problem and I do understand the concerns. We own several Nikon products (bins and scope) purchased at a time when the No-Fault was advertised. I never received a box with a No_Fault sticker and I had to track down the No_Fault PDF on my own. I printed a copy but assumed it was a courtesy extended by Nikon that could change at any time.

I hope the current Nikon USA rep joins the discussion to offer clarification.

Hello Peatmoss,
Thanks for the explanation.

Anders

Hmmm, i see. Well their high end binos i am not sure are selling well, now for sure they will not be selling any better.
Truth is as much as i like Nikon binos they can never shake their image as hunters are their main users for their binoculars in the $80 to $300 range. Thats too bad.
I got to be careful not to drop my pair of Nikon...
Thankfully Leupold is still around.

elkcub said:

Well, I was mighty annoyed a year ago to find out that their no-fault policy didn't apply to refurbs. Given the most recent change, this customer will no longer even consider their products. First, I'm not going to be around for 25 yrs........
Ed

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So was I. And the same applies to buying Nikon products. In fact, I have just turned down an offer from a friend to sell me his Nikon D200 and three Nikkor lenses for $200.
Chhayanat

Chhayanat said:

So was I. And the same applies to buying Nikon products. In fact, I have just turned down an offer from a friend to sell me his Nikon D200 and three Nikkor lenses for $200.
Chhayanat

Click to expand...

I must admit I haven’t read all the posts in the Nikon Refurb thread. However, I think I have read enough to perhaps offer a different slant on the problem.

Believe me, I’ve had some issues with Nikon’s former stateside “repair manager,” a few years back. Even so, my customers and I thought the “Refurb Program” was a godsend.

One year, early in this decade I sold 119 Refurb products—none of which were! When Nikon took their goodies to a boat show, Audubon gig, or sporting event, they didn’t repackage the gear and try to sell it as new. They wiped it clean and sold it at FANTASTIC savings! That’s at least what their rep told me. I can’t verify anything he said. I can, however, verify what I saw with my own two eyes. On ONE of WP Tropicals (In many ways a Prostar for marine use) had been fastened down too tightly on a tripod and carried a small scar on the lower side near the hinge. I bought that one myself for $80-it goes for over $1,000, today. I don’t think one blemish in 119 units is anything to get wrapped around the axle about. Nikon may have only given a 90-day warranty. However, I GAVE a 5-year! The products were great and I knew they would be worth the risk. Besides, if anything went wrong, I could fix it.

So, of those 119 units, how many came back for warranty work … ZERO!

Here is where the plot thickens. I passed the savings on to our customers. But, since there was no law that said I had to, I feel certain some dealers kept the price fairly close to full retail and pocketed the difference. Captain’s made money on refurbs, but I saw no reason to be greedy. Anyway, I think the Nikon problems some people have experienced, are related more to the middleman than the source. If that is so, Nikon is taking a bad rap. |=\|

Just a thought.

Bill

elkcub said:

Well, I was mighty annoyed a year ago to find out that their no-fault policy didn't apply to refurbs. Given the most recent change, this customer will no longer even consider their products. First, I'm not going to be around for 25 yrs. Second, anything I give my children/grandchildren will not be covered by a warranty.

I'm sticking with Swarovski and Zeiss for high priced stuff.

Thanks for starting this thread, Bruce.
Ed

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Ed,

This probably belongs in the Swarovski Forum but since we are discussing changing warranties in this Nikon Forum it should fit in here because Swarovski now has 10 year warranties for a couple of it's brand new lower priced binoculars and I was always under the impression that all Swarovski binoculars have 30 year warranties. You can find this information in the warranty section in the back of the manuals.

Do you know whether or not Swarovski's SLC and EL binoculars have longer warranties than their CL Companions and CL Pockets do?

I was just looking through Swarovski's manual dated 09/2013 covering their 8x25/10x25 CL Pockets and their warranties are only for 10 years. I found the same thing in a manual dated 01/2012 covering the CL Companions. I have an 8x30 CL Companion.

I also have a manual dated 11/2009 for the entire SLC range of binoculars covering an 8x30 SLC W B which I purchased the year they were discontinued. In this manual all of the SLC binoculars have 30 year warranties.

Do you know how long the warranty is for the new SLC versions?

Bob

elkcub said:

Well, I was mighty annoyed a year ago to find out that their no-fault policy didn't apply to refurbs. Given the most recent change, this customer will no longer even consider their products. First, I'm not going to be around for 25 yrs. Second, anything I give my children/grandchildren will not be covered by a warranty.

I'm sticking with Swarovski and Zeiss for high priced stuff.

Thanks for starting this thread, Bruce.
Ed

Click to expand...

Ed,

Do you know whether or not Swarovski's SLC and EL binoculars have longer warranties than their CL Companions and CL Pockets do?

I was just looking through Swarovski's manual dated 09/2013 for their 8x25/10x25 CL Pockets and their warranties are only for 10 years. I found the same thing in a manual dated 01/2012 for the CL Companions. I have an 8x30 CL Companion.

I also have a manual dated 11/2009 for the SLC range of binoculars covering an 8x30 SLC W B which I purchased the year they were discontinued. In this manual all of the SLC binoculars have 30 year warranties.

Do you know how long the warranty is for the new SLC versions?

Bob

P. S. Incidentally I didn't see anything in these manuals about the binocular's warranties covering anybody except the original purchaser of the binoculars.

ceasar said:

Ed,

Do you know whether or not Swarovski's SLC and EL binoculars have longer warranties than their CL Companions and CL Pockets do?

I was just looking through Swarovski's manual dated 09/2013 for their 8x25/10x25 CL Pockets and their warranties are only for 10 years. I found the same thing in a manual dated 01/2012 for the CL Companions. I have an 8x30 CL Companion.

I also have a manual dated 11/2009 for the SLC range of binoculars covering an 8x30 SLC W B which I purchased the year they were discontinued. In this manual all of the SLC binoculars have 30 year warranties.

Do you know how long the warranty is for the new SLC versions?

Bob

P. S. Incidentally I didn't see anything in these manuals about the binocular's warranties covering anybody except the original purchaser of the binoculars.

Click to expand...

I just looked on the Swarovski site, and their US warranty is identical for the EL, SLC, and CL versions (both Pocket and Companion):

"SWAROVSKI OPTIK offers a lifetime warranty on the optical system of our products for products purchased by US residents from an authorized SWAROVSKI OPTIK North American dealer. Once examined, if it is determined that the optical system is defective we will repair or replace the instrument or defective part. SWAROVSKI OPTIK warrants all other parts of the instrument for ten years from date of purchase against defects in materials or workmanship, subject to normal use. All electronic components are warranted for two years against defects in materials and workmanship, subject to normal use, from date of purchase. All non-optical products (i.e. accessories, tripods etc.) are warranted for one year from date of purchase. This warranty is void if damage results from unauthorized repairs, accident, alteration, misuse, abuse, neglect, fire, flood or other acts of God."

Hope this helps!
Steve

ceasar said:

Ed,

Do you know whether or not Swarovski's SLC and EL binoculars have longer warranties than their CL Companions and CL Pockets do?

I was just looking through Swarovski's manual dated 09/2013 for their 8x25/10x25 CL Pockets and their warranties are only for 10 years. I found the same thing in a manual dated 01/2012 for the CL Companions. I have an 8x30 CL Companion.

I also have a manual dated 11/2009 for the SLC range of binoculars covering an 8x30 SLC W B which I purchased the year they were discontinued. In this manual all of the SLC binoculars have 30 year warranties.

Do you know how long the warranty is for the new SLC versions?

Bob

P. S. Incidentally I didn't see anything in these manuals about the binocular's warranties covering anybody except the original purchaser of the binoculars.

Click to expand...

Bob,

The warranty time (now 10 years) only changed in the EU because of new EU regulations.
Maybe they switched warranty cards by accident.

Jan

jan van daalen said:

Bob,

The warranty time (now 10 years) only changed in the EU because of new EU regulations.
Maybe they switched warranty cards by accident.

Jan

Click to expand...

Jan,

It isn't a warranty card. It is a page in the back of the manuals supplied with the binoculars I purchased in the USA as I noted above in my query. I bought the 3 binoculars separately over a 3 year period.

Bob

ceasar said:

Jan,

It isn't a warranty card. It is a page in the back of the manuals supplied with the binoculars I purchased in the USA as I noted above in my query. I bought the 3 binoculars separately over a 3 year period.

Bob

Click to expand...

Bob,

OK, but AFAIK the guarantee period only changed to 10 years in the EU because of the new EU regulations. That having been said; we send in Swaro's of older age and they are repaired free of charge, so it's only a "cosmatic" change.

Jan

Hi Bob, et. al.,

My Swaro SLC-HD was purchased about three years ago but I don't recall the warranty statement offhand. I'm happy to accept what Steve posted in #31, which is more detailed than I remember. In the end all these rubber-worded warranties are written for legal purposes. What counts is what they do, and SONA has provided amazing customer service in the US for over 20 yrs., and it looks like they're holding steady. My interpretation is that they will service any instrument originally purchased from an authorized Swaro dealer in the US. Original ownership isn't mentioned explicitly, and they've applied a great deal of wiggle to keep their users happy and coming back for more.

Nikon, on the other hand, is much more explicit about the warranty being applicable only to the original purchaser, and I take them at their word. They can do that. My primary beef is that they launched a sales campaign several years ago hawking a "No-fault policy" that was intentionally ambiguous and clearly misleading. Now, they believe they can simply walk away from however many people were persuaded to buy their products because of that "policy." Maybe they can, maybe they can't. Personally, I think what they've done is unethical so I'd like to see them challenged in court. It's not quite as bad as when the Dodgers up and left Brooklyn for Los Angeles, but it rekindles those kinds of emotions. |=(|

Ed

jan van daalen said:

Bob,

OK, but AFAIK the guarantee period only changed to 10 years in the EU because of the new EU regulations. That having been said; we send in Swaro's of older age and they are repaired free of charge, so it's only a "cosmatic" change.

Jan

Click to expand...

Jan

The older ones were covered by the older warranty so Swarovski should cover them. They are only doing what they promised to do under the warranty which existed when they were purchased.

It is what they will do in 10 years or so when they get binoculars which were purchased under the new 10 year warranty that matters.

Bob

Steve260 said:

I just looked on the Swarovski site, and their US warranty is identical for the EL, SLC, and CL versions (both Pocket and Companion):

"SWAROVSKI OPTIK offers a lifetime warranty on the optical system of our products for products purchased by US residents from an authorized SWAROVSKI OPTIK North American dealer. Once examined, if it is determined that the optical system is defective we will repair or replace the instrument or defective part. SWAROVSKI OPTIK warrants all other parts of the instrument for ten years from date of purchase against defects in materials or workmanship, subject to normal use. All electronic components are warranted for two years against defects in materials and workmanship, subject to normal use, from date of purchase. All non-optical products (i.e. accessories, tripods etc.) are warranted for one year from date of purchase. This warranty is void if damage results from unauthorized repairs, accident, alteration, misuse, abuse, neglect, fire, flood or other acts of God."

Hope this helps!
Steve

Click to expand...

Steve,

The one in the manual (dated 01/2012) supplied with my CL Companion (and specific only to the CL Companion) binoculars is substantially different than the one on the website you quote above. Note in the second paragraph this sentence: "During the first five years we will take over the costs for materials and work." After that we don't know. And note that the armoring is not covered.

Here are the first six paragraphs:

"WARRANTY EN" (Means English)

"In procuring this optical product from SWAROVSKI OPTIK you now own a top quality instrument for which we grant a worldwide warranty of 10 years from the date of purchase with the following conditions:

If defects in material and/or workmanship appear, we will take over material costs for the entire warranty period. We reserve the right in such instances to repair or replace the instrument or the defective part at our discretion. During the first five years we will take over the costs for materials and work.

This guarantee in no way limits the statutory warranty obligations.

In the event that the range of products is changed, we reserve the right to repair defective instruments or to replace them with those of equal value.

We undertake no liability for repairs carried out by a repair shop which has not been authorized by us, nor for damages caused by improper use, nor for direct or indirect damages brought about by defects on the instrument. In addition, all parts are excluded from the warranty which are subject to natural wear, such as eye cups, carry straps, cases, armoring, etc.

This warranty is valid only when the when the warranty/service document has been duly dated, stamped and signed by the Authorized dealer on the day of purchase."

There is more concerning how to go about submitting the binoculars for warranty repairs.

I suggest that owners read what the manual they received with their new binocular says about its warranty to find out what kind of coverage it has.

Are these changes any less onerous than the ones Nikon made recently?

Hi Bob,

Here are instructions that apply to SONA warranty services in North America. I used to call them directly at 800-426-3089 to get an authorization, but maybe it's done online nowadays.

I'm no longer interested in Nikon's warranty service, since their No-fault policy was terminated. Fool me twice ... nah!

Ed

PS. I just called and the friendly customer support voice is still there at the end of the line.

elkcub said:

Hi Bob,

Here are instructions that apply to SONA warranty services in North America. I used to call them directly at 800-426-3089 to get an authorization, but maybe it's done online nowadays.

I'm no longer interested in Nikon's warranty service, since their No-fault policy was terminated. Fool me twice ... nah!

Ed

PS. I just called and the friendly customer support voice is still there at the end of the line.

Click to expand...

Ed:

From my ethereal Bino Book:

24 “I GOT A ‘NO FAULT WARRANTY’ WITH MY BINOCULAR, SO I NEVER HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ANYTHING.”

The Fallacy: A “no fault warranty” assures you, you’re getting a good product.

The Fact: “No fault” warranties come on binoculars of all qualities.

No Fault Warranties have become popular in recent years and people are buying increasingly from companies offering them. Even so, I have a different understanding of the phrase, “No Fault Warranty,” than most consumers. It goes:

“We’re making so much money off these little suckers, we can afford to hand out two or three replacements, and still turn a profit. Besides, we know most people won’t recognize a problem or contact us at all. That means we can layoff our in-house repair techs, give you a brand new instrument, and make you think you made out like a bandit, even though the second or third unit might not be any better than the first.”

Are all “No Fault Warranties” like this? No! No! No! But, “Buyer Beware” is a phrase of ever-expanding importance.

A STORY

As an optics merchant, it would be foolish to turn away sales of a popular binocular. Yet, that is exactly what I once had to do.

A particular instrument kept arriving from a prominent importer out of collimation—right out of the box. Therefore, the next time I received a shipment, I set aside time to check each one before putting them away. When the first eight were out of collimation—by even the most lenient of industry standards—I decided not to waste any more time on the project, and sent the entire shipment of 20 back to the importer.

I could have collimated them. However, that could have caused other problems. First, it would have been a waste of time and money for my company. Then, too, how could I know the instruments would hold their collimation and not soon cause problems for my customers? Knowing it would cost more in handling and shipping to return individual instruments to the importer, than it would to simply return the lot and remove the model from inventory, I felt that was the best option. Popular or not, that model was a waste of money.

Then, when I saw the binocular being treated as the neatest thing since sliced bread on a certain Internet binocular forum, I felt I was obliged to make other participants aware of my findings. I was quickly reminded that no good deed will go unpunished and that you can’t save some people from themselves.

I pointed out that I had been a supporter of the importer for years, had more than two dozen models of their telescopes and binoculars in inventory, and was a friend of a long-time president and CEO of the company. It made no difference; the price point overshadowed rational experience. Apparently, some people thought I had a hidden agenda.

Finally, several others with practical experience with that model came forward to say things like, “I ordered four, before I got one that was collimated,” “they’re quality control really stinks,” and “I found it wasn’t worth it, and just gave up.” Still, the price point kept dredging people up who would swear to the excellent performance of the binocular. Barring collimation issues, they were right. Yet, those issues kept showing up in the majority of cases.

When a person brought in a Swift Commodore binocular to have the axle tightened, I looked through it as part of good customer service. The binocular was out of alignment so badly, the bottom of the tires on a vehicle—as viewed through the right telescope—appeared about 3 feet above the top of the vehicle in the left telescope, at a distance of 40 yards or so. When I tried to show the problem to the customer, I was met with, “Well, it looks fine to me.”

As I said, you can’t save some people from themselves. When innocent ignorance metastasizes into willful stupidity … it’s terminal. The best I can do is quote the age’s old adage on quality:

“The bitterness of poor quality will linger long after the sweetness of a low price has been forgotten!”

*****

Maybe Nikon reasized that dealing with such customers was a money wasting battle.

ceasar said:

Jan

The older ones were covered by the older warranty so Swarovski should cover them. They are only doing what they promised to do under the warranty which existed when they were purchased.

It is what they will do in 10 years or so when they get binoculars which were purchased under the new 10 year warranty that matters.

Bob

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Bob,

I do not see the difference or even a problem.
The practice is, that (no matter the age) 99% of all cases are repaired free of charge. Certainly 100% of all repairs under guarantee are free of charge.
Wether the period is 10 or 30 years is no issue IMO.

A big part of their domination in the market is due to their high level coulance service strategy. These costs are nothing compared to the sales advantage these services brings them.
Are you afraid Swarovski will get blind/dumb, or something.
Why do you think Zeiss is copying Swaro's service level now?

Jan