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gulls (2 Viewers)

Armin Kreusel said:
What do you me about this Gull?
Photographed today by a friend of me on the german baltic coast.
Click to expand...

hallo armin,

that's quite a typical herring gull, possibly of more northern or eastern origin and having consumed some food containing lots of carotenoids, thus its yellowish bill base and legs which otherwise would be pinkish. kent olsen from denmark just recently observed a similar phenomenon (young danish and southern swedish birds with yellowish bare parts): http://gulldk.blogspot.com/2011/12/herring-gull-larus-argentatus-with.html and http://www.talk.gull-research.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=637&hilit=kent

cheers from stuttgart,
 
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lou salomon said:
... that's quite a typical herring gull, possibly of more northern or eastern origin and having consumed some food containing lots of carotenoids, thus its yellowish bill base and legs which otherwise would be pinkish. kent olsen from denmark just recently observed a similar phenomenon (young danish and southern swedish birds with yellowish bare parts): http://gulldk.blogspot.com/2011/12/herring-gull-larus-argentatus-with.html and http://www.talk.gull-research.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=637&hilit=kent
Click to expand...

Hello Lou,

thank you for your kind answer concerning the gull Armin posted here. It was me who took the photographs this morning.

I agree, the orange colour of bill and legs is caused by carotenoids, probably because during a storm, which lasted for about 12 hours, shells and frutti-di-mare were the only food available for large gulls here.

Nevertheless this gull from my point of view is not a typical L. a. argentatus. In the case, it's from the white-sea-region, I am really astonished, that it has so many scapulars already moulted. Perhaps it is one of the eastern omissus-type, but I don't know how "fast" the postjuvenile moult takes place in this.

The moment I saw it, my first idea was 'smithonianus', but after reading the Dutch Birding article from Mullarney & Lonegan I don't think so any more. The underwing and the undertailcoverts would be too unusual for an american herring gull described there.

But I recieved hints, that it might be a Glaucous-X-Herring-Gull-Hybrid from two independent sources. Mullarney et. al. wrote in their article, that those hybrids can sometimes look similar to smithonianus. Could this be an option worth to look closer at from your point of view?

With kind regards
Thomas |=)|
 
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hi thomas,

not that i have much experience with "viking gulls" (HG X glaucous) but none of the photots i know look similar to yours. the resemblance to smithsonianus i guess is more regarding the more subdued covert pattern and largely uniform patterned tail - which is not at all the case in your gull. it rather has a narrow tail band. you're right, probably not from the murmansk area since they usually are later in scaps moult, but it may well be from somewhere in finnmark (not necessarily "omissus"), the darker outer webs of primaries being a hint into that direction, and many baltic argentatus have such a narrow subterminal tailband. the dark head portion is well within argentatus. there are several articles on the web regarding smith-ID in europe but i'm gonna go to bed now, maybe you dig them out tomorrow?

all the best and cheers to the windy förde!
 
lou salomon said:
hi thomas,

not that i have much experience with "viking gulls" (HG X glaucous) but none of the photots i know look similar to yours. the resemblance to smithsonianus i guess is more regarding the more subdued covert pattern and largely uniform patterned tail - which is not at all the case in your gull. it rather has a narrow tail band. you're right, probably not from the murmansk area since they usually are later in scaps moult, but it may well be from somewhere in finnmark (not necessarily "omissus"), the darker outer webs of primaries being a hint into that direction, and many baltic argentatus have such a narrow subterminal tailband. the dark head portion is well within argentatus. there are several articles on the web regarding smith-ID in europe but i'm gonna go to bed now, maybe you dig them out tomorrow?

all the best and cheers to the windy förde!
Click to expand...

I think Lou is right here. Nice analysis.

Cheers, Andy.
 
Hi Lou,

lou salomon said:
not that i have much experience with "viking gulls" (HG X glaucous) but none of the photots i know look similar to yours.
Click to expand...
"Viking gulls"? Great! :)

Well, yesterday I thought, I couldn't become puzzled even more by this type of gulls, but this morning I learned I'm wrong. I've seen four more (and took photographs of some) of the same kind, and please have a look to the following gull being one of those, but looking even more weird (harbour of Eckernförde 54.28N - 09.51E). Any idea?

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/6117/pcb00041024x768.jpg

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/2869/pcb00061024x768.jpg

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/1928/pcb00021024x768.jpg

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/8594/pcb00101024x768.jpg

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1213/pcb00081024x768.jpg

From my point of view it's 1st-winter with a two-coloured bill, something I have seen only in 1stW-birds of Glaucous Gull and Iceland Gull so far.

probably not from the murmansk area since they usually are later in scaps moult
Click to expand...
Yes indeed, for example:
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/4029/laargentusnortheast.jpg


All the best
Thomas
 
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Hi Andy

Many thanks for highlighting this, always good to see a known birds movements.

I did try and obtain a full history of this bird but can't recall if I had a response, I'll check my emails however if there is a full history of this bird I would be greatful if this could be provided.

regards
 
tittletattler said:
I see that Steve has photographed this bird:

http://www.birdersplayground.co.uk/...3rd winter Yellow PAPB Pitsea Tip WEB 123.JPG

I photographed it on the 3rd Jan this year:

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2021716&postcount=1684

and it was in Holland in 2009:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/little-w/4063375071/

It's interesting to see that it's happily chosen Western Europe as its preferred wintering destination.

Cheers, Andy.
Click to expand...

Hi Andy,

Thanks for posting this, good to be able to follow the different plumages of this individual.

Cheers,

Maarten van Kleinwee
 
little-W said:
Hi Andy,

Thanks for posting this, good to be able to follow the different plumages of this individual.

Cheers,

Maarten van Kleinwee
Click to expand...

Hey cool! Great to have another larophile on Birdforum.

Steve - I think I struggled to get a response back in January so I'd greatly appreciate it if you (or Maarten) could post any further info on here.

I had a very distant 1st winter Caspian today in the Eastern Quarry at Bluewater.

Photo here:

http://www.kentos.org.uk/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=3612

Best wishes to all,

Andy.
 
What do you make of this gull? I digiscoped it today. In flight it had a grey mantle and I feel it is a retarded 2nd winter (2cyr) Yellow-legged Gull. But I could be wrong.

Cheers,

Andy.
 

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Hi Andy, nice one with the Casp( again!).Must admit if I saw the bird in post #2118 up here I`d call it an Argentatus Herring Gull.The greater covert and tertial pattern would make me think this.However as we`ve said before you see many more YLGs than I do, so I`m willing to be dissuaded.Had a good days Gulling on the Lancashire coast today with a rather pale juv Glaucous and an immaculate adult YLG being the highlights,

cheers, Pete.
 
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