Mr. Mayer and his dove (1 Viewer)

Taphrospilus

Well-known member

• Feb 27, 2015

• #1

I am just wondering if I read in HBW Alive the following:

Prof. August Franz Joseph Karl Mayer (1787-1865) German anatomist, physiologist (Cheke 2010b, refers to a Gustave Mayer, of whom “no one has the faintest idea”) (Nesoenas).

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Unfortunatelly I do not have access to Florent Prévosts part of "Les Pigeons" with Mrs Knip to check if there is more conclusion about the real dedication name.

Maybe it is one of the guys above, but there seems to be still some doubts. Therefore I found another option which might be possible. There is a Dr. Alexandre Mayer who wrote in 1840 (around the first description of Nesoenas mayeri)

Prométhée, revue scientifique du magnétisme animal

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. As it is about animals he might be Mr. Right.

But as I wrote this is just another guess and someone here can proof me wrong.

 

mb1848

Well-known member

• Feb 27, 2015

• #2

This is a hard one especially since the Prevost & Knip 1843 edition is so rare. I can only add that some sources have Marchal as the author of this name. Evidently the bird was in his musee and he collected insects in Mauritius and Reunion.

 

Taphrospilus

Well-known member

• Feb 28, 2015

• #3

You are right e.g. here. I didn't know this. Anyway who is Mr. Marchal? Paul Alfred Daniel Marchal (1862–1942) can't be as he was born after the first description. Maybe his father?

 

mb1848

Well-known member

• Mar 1, 2015

• #4

In Lost Land of the Dodo they state that Marchal collected...both Mauritius and Cardinal Fody nests and specimens, and a number of lizards. his collection was mostly sold and dispersed after he died. The lizards went to MNHN. LeFresnaye 1850. I do not know what article LaFresnaye 1850 refers to.

 

Taphrospilus

Well-known member

• Mar 1, 2015

• #5

Lafresnaye mentioned him here in:

Sur la nidification de quelques espèces d'Oiseaux de la famille ou sous-famille de TISSERINS (Ploceinae)

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It seems that he lived in Calvi, which we can find here. As well he published at least one article...

Note sur l'identité du Papilio Lavinius de Fabricus, avec la Nymphalis Steneles

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...which we can find here.

Based on this information I assume it is Charles-Jacob Marchal de Calvi (1815-1873) MARCHAL DE CALVI Charles Jacob. But this seems not bring me closer to Mayer in my inital question.

 

Last edited: Mar 1, 2015

Taphrospilus

Well-known member

• Mar 1, 2015

• #6

Maybe one additional guess on Mayer. Could the dedication be for Carl Emil Ludwig Mayer (1829-1890) (sometimes Carl Emil Louis Mayer)? My guess because the MS for the description came from Marchal de Calvi. If I read here both persons shared the same scientific interest.

On the other hand in year of description 1843 he would have been only 14 years. Therefore I assume the dedication can't be for him.

 

Last edited: Mar 1, 2015

Taphrospilus

Well-known member

• Mar 5, 2015

• #7

I have to correct myself as it can't be Charles-Jacob Marchal de Calvi (1815-1873) as Lafresnaye wrote in the year 1850:

M. Marchal, qui avait rapporté de Maurice ces nids, ainsi qu'une collection d'oiseaux particuliers à cette île, comptait en faire quelques publications dans la Revue zoologique; sa mort inattendue l'en a empêche. Il n'a laissé en mourant, aucun manuscript, et ses nids on été vendus avec les oiseaux.

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So this Marchal de Calvi was already dead in year 1850.

 

Taphrospilus

Well-known member

• Mar 11, 2015

• #8

Meanwhile I contacted the Bayrische Staatsbibliothek in Munich as they have one of this rare book. They replied the following about the dedication:

Elle y est dédiée au naturaliste, M. Gustave Mayer, qui est rapporté de l'ile Maurice l'individu très-frais d'après lequel ont été faites notre figure et notre description.

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So Gustave Mayer seemed to be a collector in Mauritius. ''Mocis mayeri'' here seemed to be dedicated to the same gentleman. OD here.

 

Last edited: Mar 11, 2015

mb1848

Well-known member

• Mar 11, 2015

• #9

Same publication as O. Mayeri has a footnote mentioning Mr. Mayer and Marchal.
http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/46062#page/27/mode/1up .

 

mb1848

Well-known member

• Mar 12, 2015

• #10

I think we got our person. Thank you T. for contacting the library.

The 1838-1843 Les Pigeons, the first vol. is a reprint, with alterations. The second volume is new. Zoonomen.

The first tome is a reprint, with alterations, of the same work of 1809. The second tome, with text by Prévost, can stand as an entirely separate work. Smithsonian Institute library.

Vol. 1 is apparently…made up of remainder stock except for a new title page. Dickinson et al. 2010. Temminck v. Knip Archives of Natural History. (Priority!)

Nesoenas mayeri, Columba mayeri.
Marchal in Prévost in Knip, Temminck & Prévost, 1843 Les Pigeons Vol. 2 . Named for Mon. Gustave Mayer from Mauritius. There is at least one other pigeon described in the work whose author is not Prevost.
“Columba cruziana d’Orbigny in Prévost in Knip, Temminck & Prévost, 1842, .” This is from Liste des types d’oiseaux des collections du Muséum national d’Histoire naturelle de Paris. 14 : Pigeons (Columbidae), deuxième partie Claire VOISIN Jean-François VOISIN Christian JOUANIN Roger BOUR Muséum national d’Histoire naturelle, Département Systématique et Évolution, (2005?)
(I saw a listing of a book called Museum Marchal, par Marchal?)Always more to research.

 

Taphrospilus

Well-known member

• Mar 13, 2015

• #11

To give one additional comment on Vol. 1 of Temminck and Knip it is worth to read:

René Ronsil: Madame Knip, née Pauline de Courcelles, et son oeuvre ornithologique. In: Journal of the Society for the Bibliography of Natural History. Vol. 3, 1957, ISSN 0037-9778, pp. 207-220, doi:10.3366/jsbnh.1957.3.4.207. Extract here.

or

René Ronsil: L'Art français dans le livre d'oiseaux (Eléments d'une iconographie ornithologique française). In: Mémoires de la Société ornithologique de France et de l'union française (= Supplément à L'Oiseau et la Revue française d'Ornithologie. Vol. 28, No. 6). 1957

First of all Madame Knip used designs from Jean-Gabriel Prêtre (1768-1849). Secondly she modified the title and author in one of the following deliveries in the absence of Temminck which made him very upset. As I understood in Naturalis in Leiden is one original from Temminck which contains 34 original illustrations by Prêtre (and not from Mme Knip).

Regardin Marchal I understood Prévost used his manuscript. So the author is Prévost.

 

Last edited: Mar 13, 2015

Taphrospilus

Well-known member

• Mar 13, 2015

• #12

And there might be Aeshna marchali a dragonfly dedicated to Marchal.

 

l_raty

laurent raty

• Mar 13, 2015

• #13

Taphrospilus said:

Regardin Marchal I understood Prévost used his manuscript. So the author is Prévost.

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Probably, but you cannot be sure. If Prévost quoted verbatim a description from Marchal's manuscript, then Marchal is the author.

 

Taphrospilus

Well-known member

• Mar 13, 2015

• #14

There is a second entomological article from Marchal I found. The title is Notes rectificatives sur la nomenclature de quelques insectes Orthopthères et Lépidoptères exposés dans la galeries du Muséum d'histoire naturelles de Paris. It looks like Frederick William Hope (1797-1862) have bought at least parts of the Marchal collection. I feel Marchal is more an entomologist than ornithologist.