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revivingKensArt (1 Viewer)

I looked this over and played with it in PS.....hope you don't mind some comments, IMO
there are too many parallel lines, see pink dots, too many lines lead the eye out off the page, there are two dark shapes , see blue lines, that compete with the bird. The single branch the bird is on is one thickness across the whole work, making a sort of cut.. Where branches cross and make even Xs can be an element that makes flow harder.

the last piece you did this way did not have these issues, and you balanced the light very well as well as integrating the elements in an elegant way....I think you have some of this well done, but it may be better to try it again rather than correct this one. I also tried cropping at different places to move the bird a bit off center more, but don't think that is as important as all the lines the branches make and where they are going...

This is only my view of things, and mostly we all cheer each other on here so hope I'm not out of step with a detailed crit, others may have a different view.
 

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Hi Colleen,

No you're not out of step with a detailed crit, though my guess is that it's something we all struggle over when it applies to other's work. Should be give one or not? For my own work that's fine. The only danger I think is possible too much self-consciousness once you start considering a detailed crit. But I think eventually you do learn how to assimilate criticism. So thanks for the taking the time to comment.

When I was a graduate student, and probably undergraduate as well, one of the most common reactions on the part of the artist to criticisms was: but that's what I wanted. Sad to say that is somewhat my reaction here, and I know how cliched it is.

Part of what drew me to this photo was all the vertical lines, particularly the ones with the catkins attached. As far as the horizontal lines, you are definitely right that the horizontals of same width going across the full page can really divide up the drawing. I really need to take a good look at this in light of what you say and see if I agree. The dark shapes are somewhat the same. The dark shape on left was one thing that appealed to me in photo, though much less so the one on the right. And that shape has been troublesome to me from the start. It may be that it just shouldn't be there. On the other hand when I lightened it up so that it less prominent something seemed wrong with the drawing.

But my original intentions and what eventually solified into the drawing may be quite different things! So I'll now need to take a good hard look and see what I think. Again thanks much for your comments.

Ken
 
Good to read such a dialogue - most welcome IMHO. For my own part, I think this is the strongest piece you've posted here (and there have been a few goodies already). I like the design and the viewer is drawn to the focal point very nicely.
 
Part of what drew me to this photo was all the vertical lines, particularly the ones with the catkins attached.

But my original intentions and what eventually solified into the drawing may be quite different things! So I'll now need to take a good hard look and see what I think. Again thanks much for your comments.

Ken
I can see your point, and I've run into this myself. It's not the lines themselves that are at issue, it the regularity of them in spacing as they run parallel to each other. It is the nature of the brain to make regular even spaces. Try putting 9 dots in a 3x4" rectangle, just without thinking.... then look to see how many spaces between the dots are the same or close to the same, now try again and make each division of space different, it's very hard, and you have to really notice what you are doing with each mark.

When I look at Nature she somehow does all these spaces and each one is slightly different, and graceful in the random way they occur. In grass stalks for instance, but the same will apply in a non objective abstract, placing shapes in space, as you know from your background, takes great consideration to make it balance and flow. In realism this is still a challenge to me as it was in the abstract.
 
Good to read such a dialogue - most welcome IMHO. For my own part, I think this is the strongest piece you've posted here (and there have been a few goodies already). I like the design and the viewer is drawn to the focal point very nicely.


Thanks so much Tim! I appreciate the compliments. I have done a lot of reworking since then, mainly to try to unify the far background. But I'm afraid I might have killed off some of the freshness and sense of warm summer light. Hopefully I regained much of that through today's work but I need to let it sit for awhile before knowing. When I think it's finally done I'll post the final version.
 
I can see your point, and I've run into this myself. It's not the lines themselves that are at issue, it the regularity of them in spacing as they run parallel to each other. It is the nature of the brain to make regular even spaces. Try putting 9 dots in a 3x4" rectangle, just without thinking.... then look to see how many spaces between the dots are the same or close to the same, now try again and make each division of space different, it's very hard, and you have to really notice what you are doing with each mark.

When I look at Nature she somehow does all these spaces and each one is slightly different, and graceful in the random way they occur. In grass stalks for instance, but the same will apply in a non objective abstract, placing shapes in space, as you know from your background, takes great consideration to make it balance and flow. In realism this is still a challenge to me as it was in the abstract.

Hi Colleen,

I've taken a good look at this and I just don't see the problems that you do. There is some regularity of spacing but I think that can be used as a decorative pattern and that's what I've tried to do here.

I have reworked it quite a bit with the idea of unifying the far background. In doing so there was one point where it was so unified that all of the branches jumped to the foreground and at that point I think it looked somewhat the way you see it: a dominating predictable pattern. Oddly enough I think that the dark shape on the right is really necessary to help preent this. I've moved it out many times now and always end up putting it back in.

I need to let it sit now. I'm afraid I've lost some of the freshness that almost inevitably comes from reworking many times. But I hope that when I next look at it I'll decide it's done. I'll post it when I finally think it's done.

Ken
 
I'm sure you know what works and what you see is not what I do, there is always the issue of the camera making colors lose nuance and overemphasizing the contrast, so what ever suits you is just right. :)

As I said before, it's not that this one needs changing, just something to consider when you do another piece. I find this particular thing a real challenge, so I may be over focused on it.
 
I feel like I've been through the looking glass and back with this one. On Sunday I felt that the background was a little too disjointed and seemed too much like abtract markings and not enough like something that could pass for naturalistic illusion.

So I went back into it. I think I lost some of the bright summery freshness almost immediately. So the last two days I've tried to retrieve it. It has been a bit of an ordeal. At the same time I've enjoyed it because that's the way I used to work when I did abstract and non-objective work. It could sometimes take awhile until I felt the work was finished.

I think this is now finished. I don't know if it's better or worse or if anyone else will even notice the difference!! I have tried to get it back to what it looked like on Sunday. In any case I am happy with it, and happy to be done!
 

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I think you improved it, esp by integrating that dark shape more into the background but that's just my opinion....

Thought it might be interesting to see them side by side. Of course this is the photo and not the work so we aren't really comparing them, but you can see what I mean about that shape.
 

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A very interesting dialogue, and of course, constructive criticism is not really a reaction to the work, but an expression of personal taste - always welcome and worth listening to though as it can take you down some interesting paths - even if the final result is 'I painted what I wanted to paint'. Lots to think about here. I agree with Coleen that the regular spacing is an impedimet to certain aesthetics in the picture, but I agree with Ken that the same regular spacing can be the interesting feature that makes the picture stand out. The end result is a beauty, lots of interest in colours, tones and patterns.
 
I agree with Colleen, the dark background shape was a bit dominating, distracting from the primary focus a tad. So a good decision to knock a bit of the wind out of it.

Mike
 
Thanks Colleen, Woody, Nick, for your comments. This has been a tough one to bring to a finish. My one point of agreement with Colleen was the dark shape on the right. It did seem too strong. But everytime I removed it, and I did so at least 10 times, the right side fell apart. So I ended up with this compromise.

All in all I think my own misgivings and Colleen's comments got me looking at it more critically and that led to many changes, far more than show up in the final version. But Tim's comments reinforced my liking of it. So that kept me cautious about destroying the parts I liked. Anyway to make a long story short it was a difficult but fruitful experience.

I hope the next one is a bit smoother!
 
A couple more quick fieldsketches before work today. The place I go, Valley Green in Philadelphia, is full of hybrid ducks and geese. There are some regular Canada Geese and Mallards here, but also some hybrids. And a couple of bad sketches of those flighty Ruby-Throated Hummingbirds from the backyard!
 

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Thanks Nick,

I never appreciated what great drawing material Canada Geese were until they were the only subjects around, and they tended to sit still, or at least not move away instantly like the hummers.........

Ken
 
Well Mike seems to be better than me in dealing with a public audience while working. My sketching was cut short today because I got involved in talking to a couple of passersby and used up my short amount of time.

The one good side of this, outside of an interesting conversation, is that I found out the geese I've thought were Graylags are actually Chinese Geese. So I learned something valuable.

I'm including a couple of sketches of them from today, along with a Canada Goose foot, and a hybrid duck on one sheet. The other includes a 3-legged Green Heron, the extra legs being due to the fact that he changed position. The new one was more interesting but I ended up getting neither. Also a young Flicker.

We've had a stray kitten in backyard for a week or two so I started a sketch of him while waiting for the coals to heat up for grilling Sunday night. Sadly he seems to have disappeared as of yesterday and my wife fears the worst. So this minor little sketch may be the last we see of him. I certainly hope we're wrong.
 

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