SX40 Super Zoom (1 Viewer)

ANDY to avoid any confusion here is my method using just the Manual mode.
Dial-in the aperture and ISO you want and while metering off something 18% grey in tone (in the ambient light) change the shutter speed until the dial is zeroed - that's it, start shooting (just consider slight adjustments to the shutter speed for light or dark toned birds as previously described).
When you are shooting something (in the ambient light) take no notice of what the metering dial says as that will be considering the background as well as your target. It is only when the light changes that you will need to re-meter.
Hope that makes sense!

Roy C said:

ANDY to avoid any confusion here is my method using just the Manual mode.
Dial-in the aperture and ISO you want and while metering off something 18% grey in tone (in the ambient light) change the shutter speed until the dial is zeroed - that's it, start shooting (just consider slight adjustments to the shutter speed for light or dark toned birds as previously described).
When you are shooting something (in the ambient light) take no notice of what the metering dial says as that will be considering the background as well as your target. It is only when the light changes that you will need to re-meter.
Hope that makes sense!

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Thanks once again Roy...

I guess it's very easy for everyone to lose sight of the fact that the SX40 is little more than a jumped up point & shoot with Pinocchio's nose. Sure, under certain circumstances, patiently sitting and fiddling with the settings is going to get us some really nice images in much the same way that excellent images can be obtained when digiscoping (even with a ropey set-up if you are willing to put in the time). Myself, and I suspect many others, have opted for a bridge camera for its portability. A reasonably small unit that can capture a moment, competently and with a minimum of fuss - before it is lost forever.

Consider this opinion...

Malcolm Stewart said:

I may be wrong about this, but my gut feeling is that the exposure metering on my SX40 is more reliable than on my Eos DSLRs....

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and I think Tim just about nailed it when he said..

tdodd said:

Of course, without the backlit challenge I suspect that Av/Tv/P modes with most metering patterns will do very well...

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In all honesty Roy, and with all due respect, you might want to put a little more faith in the metering and more especially, the IS of the SX40. Park the DSLR mentality for a wee while and take some time out to see what this unit wants to do for you, not what you can do to it. I've gone back through a lot of my shots, most of which I consider acceptable, some quite good (though no doubt the 'purists' could rip them to shreds) and only those taken in the very dullest of light conditions (hand held, full zoom) reached the dizzy heights of ISO 400 (the Nikon P500's ISO regularly went completely through the roof)! Getting down below ISO 200 in really good light should be an absolute doddle :t:

Once again I draw peoples attention to the following link;
http://ps4wild.lightshedder.com/category/canon-powershot/ and scroll down to; 1680mm handheld? Canon SX40HS makes it possible!

Andy.

Just to make my position on the SX40 clear I consider it no more than a little 'toy' to carry around when out and about. In no way do I think it is a replacement for a DSLR as the difference between the two is enormous (especially for bird/action photography). Having said that it is in my nature to try and get the best out of it and to this end I enjoy exploring all its possibilities and making conversation on-line with like minded people. It is fairly obvious from this thread that most participants are happy to just use it as a fully automated point and shoot with no interest in taking it any further so I will bid a farewell to this thread by un-subscribing. Thanks to everyone for there help and happing snapping :t:

I think for best results at full zoom it would be best mounted on a monopod to reduce camera shake.

Roy C said:

Just to make my position on the SX40 clear I consider it no more than a little 'toy' to carry around when out and about. In no way do I think it is a replacement for a DSLR as the difference between the two is enormous (especially for bird/action photography). Having said that it is in my nature to try and get the best out of it and to this end I enjoy exploring all its possibilities and making conversation on-line with like minded people. It is fairly obvious from this thread that most participants are happy to just use it as a fully automated point and shoot with no interest in taking it any further so I will bid a farewell to this thread by un-subscribing. Thanks to everyone for there help and happing snapping :t:

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Roy,

I sincerely hope that you haven't taken my post the wrong way and please don't un-subscribe from this thread. I'm hoping to learn from people like you!

The suggestion that you might like to try the program settings is so that your experiences with DSLR's will ultimately help the inexperienced, like me, to find the perfect set of all round 'saved' settings for general birding use. Find the flaws, build on strengths. That kind of stuff.

Sincere apologies if I've given the wrong impression.

Andy.

I think the point which has been overlooked here is that Roy was trying to figure out how to get the most from the camera in a more difficult lighting situation, with the backlit sky causing underexposure of the subject. That is not to say that in easier lighting scenarios it won't do a great job on autopilot.

I mentioned manual exposure and highlight metering as a possible solution, because that is how I work with my DSLRs, and I wondered whether the same approach might work for the SX40, but there is usually more than one way to skin a cat. I don't think that anyone is dismissing the camera or the ways in which individuals choose to use it.

I only joined the topic because I have been umming and ahing about whether to buy a (pocket) superzoom for the occasions when I can't be bothered to lug my big guns about. Maybe I will. Maybe I won't. But I do find the discussion here interesting and I'm impressed with many of the results posted. They certainly provide food for thought.

tdodd said:

I think the point which has been overlooked here is that Roy was trying to figure out how to get the most from the camera in a more difficult lighting situation, with the backlit sky causing underexposure of the subject. That is not to say that in easier lighting scenarios it won't do a great job on autopilot.

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Very well said! At present, I'm an excitable 'Point & Shootist' but that didn't stop me from looking at Roy's backlit sky results and immediately assigning C2 to manual mode with a 400 ISO for when I need it because it obviously works! I for one appreciate Roy's wanting to get the best form his SX40.

Getting input and opinions from across the board can only be a good thing.

Andy.

Robert L Jarvis said:

Regards memory card, if doing video I have purchased from 7day shop a Duracell 64gb SDXC card which is supposed to be very fast. Not tried it yet due to weather. But does come in smaller sizes. The 64 cost £40, worth thinking about?

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That's a good price Robert. I will need to upgrade soon as I only have 1x32 and 4x16 at the moment and I have filled the 32gig on several occasions. It is annoying to have to replace cards in the field when the camera is attached to tripods.
Neil.

Probably trying to run here before I can walk but we're now all tooled up with the option of shooting in RAW! |8)|

The image below was shot and saved as RAW in DNG format, converted to TIFF for processing in ViewNX2 and finally saved as a JPEG. I've probably over-egged the processing a bit but there you go...

Andy.

tdodd said:

I mentioned manual exposure and highlight metering as a possible solution, because that is how I work with my DSLRs, and I wondered whether the same approach might work for the SX40, but there is usually more than one way to skin a cat.

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Been having a play so please correct me if I'm wrong. Would the following give similar results with a backlit subject in an Auto mode (methods obviously pertaining to the SX40)?;

In Program mode, find your roof tiles (or whatever - 18% grey) to meter off. Keep shutter pressed halfway down and press 'Up' on the dial. This locks the AE (indicated by *). This also brings up a slider showing the remaining shutter speed/aperture options that can be fine tuned by rotating the dial (although rather limited at full zoom to 5.8 - 8.0). Frame the subject, press shutter halfway to focus, take the shot.

The one thing I'm not sure about when using the above (or the manual method for a backlit subject) is whether the correct metering method should be Evaluative, Centre weighted Average or Spot?

Andy.

I can't speak for the operation of the SX40, not being an owner, so I don't know if you can lock exposure in P mode and afterwards apply further adjustments before taking the shot. I would think you'd need to make your adjustments and then lock the exposure before taking the shot.

As for the metering pattern - the choice is very much up to you and how you wish to operate. There is no right or wrong, but each will potentially require a different way of working. There may be lighting scenarios where one is the better choice, but again it's personal preference.

Going back to my DSLR modus operandi - I will tend mostly to use spot metering with manual exposure, which gives me very precise control over what part of the scene I am metering from - could be the sky, the subject, a neutral tone such as green grass, tarmac, red brick, a tree trunk, leaves etc.. I will decide for myself how bright I think that tone should be on a scale from -3 (almost featureless black) to +3 (bordering on pure, featureless white) on the meter and dial in my manual exposure to place that tone right where I want it. I am then free to adjust my composition, safe in the knowledge that my exposure will not get messed up by changing scene content (but unchanging lighting) in front of the lens.

When using Tv, Av or P (not that I use P) then more often than not I will use evaluative metering and let the camera figure out what to make of the scene. I might dial in some EC, but to be honest I find it difficult to know how the camera will read the scene and what it will make of the exposure. That means I find it hard to gauge how much EC I should be using. Also, with a strong backlighting situation I think it's a bit of a wing and a prayer job to leave it to the camera to work things out, and rather than keep firing off test shots, chimping and adjusting I'd rather just fix things manually and make my own determination of how to expose the scene before I even take the first shot.

Basically, shooting manual is not an exercise in machismo. It is nothing more than a long term exposure lock that will not budge until you decide to change it. If the lighting is not changing (e.g. bright sunshine over my shoulder all day long) then I can set my exposure up at the start of the day and barely change it at all as the day progresses. I may finesse the exposure depending on whether my subject is dark or light, but I know the optimum exposure is only a couple of clicks away.

If the light is changing a lot then certainly the auto modes can respond far more quickly than I can, but you still have the challenge of varying subject/scene tonality and the need to constantly be mindful of where your EC adjustment should be. With spot metering you can at least aim at something specific and quickly hit the AEL button. With evaluative there is always the mystery surprise about what the camera will do in difficult lighting sceanrios.

Another way to look at it - spot metering offers the precision of a sniper rifle, but requires great(er) skill in order to use it effectively. Evaluative metering is more like a shotgun - you'll no doubt get your target, but how precise will the shot be? Now, you wouldn't take a sniper rifle to raid a drug house, because you need something fast and with good general coverage to hit your target quickly. But sitting up on a hill with all the time to prepare for your one shot in advance (no second chances) the sniper rifle is going to be the weapon of choice. No rights or wrongs - just different tools for different jobs. Evaluative and auto when I want to be able to respond quickly and spot and manual when I have time to prepare in advance.

Thanks for that! Most informative.

tdodd said:

I can't speak for the operation of the SX40, not being an owner, so I don't know if you can lock exposure in P mode and afterwards apply further adjustments before taking the shot. I would think you'd need to make your adjustments and then lock the exposure before taking the shot.

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Just looked into it properly and the only post adjustment is limited to shutter speed within the safe bounds of of the locked AE. Any EC has to be determined prior to the lock-down.

Anyway, below is a hasty backlit shot taken after locking the AE on a concrete yard. Seems to work....?

Seems to have worked pretty well. Mind you, I don't know how much the bird was filling the frame, or if you've cropped at all, but for this mid toned plumage a possibility might well have been to spot meter off the bird itself if it was large enough to fully cover the spot. But replace it with a crow or a white dove and you'd have more of a task on your hands. Of course, that's where spot and some EC could still have worked. It's just a question of judging how dark or bright the subject ought to be relative to "middle grey". I'm not saying you should have spot metered the bird. It's just an option which might have worked equally well. You don't always find a bit of yard concrete when out and about. The important thing is to know your options so that you are equipped to deal with whatever situation you find yourself in.

tdodd said:

Seems to have worked pretty well. Mind you, I don't know how much the bird was filling the frame, or if you've cropped at all, but for this mid toned plumage a possibility might well have been to spot meter off the bird itself if it was large enough to fully cover the spot. But replace it with a crow or a white dove and you'd have more of a task on your hands. Of course, that's where spot and some EC could still have worked. It's just a question of judging how dark or bright the subject ought to be relative to "middle grey". I'm not saying you should have spot metered the bird. It's just an option which might have worked equally well. You don't always find a bit of yard concrete when out and about. The important thing is to know your options so that you are equipped to deal with whatever situation you find yourself in.

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Thanks for that sound advice. I was messing about with various settings/combinations in low light yesterday and I think I'm maybe starting to get a handle on it - maybe...

Anyway I've also been messing with CHDK. Shooting in RAW has it's obvious merits but boy, does it slow things down and filling a card would take no time at all! So I've been giving 'Superfine' jpg a go which is far more convenient and, to my tired eyes, produces reasonably good results.

The attached was taken using Scene mode (10fps) using CHDK's Superfine setting. It was processed in ViewNX2, PS Elements using the NeatImage plugin and involved saving 3 times. I'd welcome some comments (and NOT things like "not another *&%^£*^ Collared Dove"). |=o|

Andy.

Considering the type of camera the SX40 is, is it really worthwhile installing the raw software and shooting raw rather than JPEG?? IMO I do not think so.

Robert L Jarvis said:

Considering the type of camera the SX40 is, is it really worthwhile installing the raw software and shooting raw rather than JPEG?? IMO I do not think so.

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Fair comment. As I'm still trying to get the very best from my SX40, I'd be genuinely interested to know the reasons behind the arrival of this conclusion.

I agree that the RAW option, whilst handy to have, may not be all that worthwhile as it does make operating the SX40 rather sluggish (although many bemoan the fact that the SX40 doesn't shoot RAW)! However, CHDK offers the option of quickly toggling between RAW & JPEG so it's there if needed. That said, I'd be keen to learn when, and under what circumstances, saving in a lossless format might provide the better option.

It's still early days and I'm still trying to get to grips with it, but amongst all the other goodies that the CHDK sofware has to offer (like timelapse, motion sensor, faster shutter speeds, manual overrides etc.) is the 'Superfine' jpeg setting that the SX40 lacks. I've found a noticable difference in quality over the standard 'Fine' setting with no noticable drop in operation speeds and a very acceptable increase in file sizes. IMO, worth installing and shooting jpeg for this alone!

Andy.

Just ordered mine. I have read through this thread and may have missed it but how does this camera do with moving birds in bushes

Apologies for the novice question, I'm a birder first, photographer after!

Okay Andy Guess I should look at that for the options relating to JPEGs. Where did you download from? and what version was it. A link to that would be helpful.

RE Birder said:

Just ordered mine. I have read through this thread and may have missed it but how does this camera do with moving birds in bushes

Apologies for the novice question, I'm a birder first, photographer after!

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I find it works reasonably well. I think there is a post further back highlighting the merits of the focus on a rabbits eye through vegetation. I have a 'House Sparrow in a bush' image where the camera behaved itself and also a well hidden Lapwing chick that held the focus that I was totally impressed with.

Hope this helps,

Andy

Robert L Jarvis said:

Okay Andy Guess I should look at that for the options relating to JPEGs. Where did you download from? and what version was it. A link to that would be helpful.

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Best if you make a start HERE.

Each Canon Powershot camera requires its own version of the software and even the same camera type requires the software to match it's firmware version. You must find out the firmware version of your camera first. You can try finding it by using the method described in the above link. I couldn't get it to work so downloaded ACID (Automatic Camera Identifier and Downloader) from;

http://www.zenoshrdlu.com/acid/acid.html

This worked perfectly.

I would seriously recommend having a good read through before doing anything. There are also tutorials that walk you through everything on YouTube and it's worth taking the time to give them a view. Just Google CHDK and you'll find a wealth of information. There is also a CHDK forum which, again, is worth joining because there are bound to be questions.....:t:

HTH,

Andy.