China Birding Notes (1 Viewer)

Frogfish said:

Very nice report on Yang Shan Craig !

I really hope though that you are not posting details of the pond location on any Chinese forum (we don't even name it here - except with an synonym - and it would be great if you could remove the real name from here) as we have never seen another tog there (only that really nice Chinese birder with the P&S - who told me that in 3 years going there he never told a soul about that place as he doesn't want to see it trashed as the other sites). It's not that it's particularly hidden it's just that they don't seem to value it. Thanks !

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I'm not sure I understand. Many of the people who use the Chinese Web sites are friends of mine. Most of them are good guys. Am I really to withhold information about a site that in any case is clearly visible from the road? Are the Chinese photographic hordes really that dangerous? Chinese photographers may not be paragons of environmentalism, and many of them need to brush up on their ornithology; but they're far from being the ecological pests that some people on this forum portray them as.

thrush said:

I'm not sure I understand. Many of the people who use the Chinese Web sites are friends of mine. Most of them are good guys. Am I really to withhold information about a site that in any case is clearly visible from the road? Are the Chinese photographic hordes really that dangerous? Chinese photographers may not be paragons of environmentalism, and many of them need to brush up on their ornithology; but they're far from being the ecological pests that some people on this forum portray them as.

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Yes and Yes. You have seen the virtual total destruction of the Rubbish Dump site for yourself (yet I notice you did not make any comment about it). I don't see how you can recognise what is happening in the 'Nets' thread and yet ignore what is happening right before your eyes on Yang Shan. You of all people should know what can and does happen here (and in most places in the world) if people are less than circumspect.

Having lived here for 18 years and having a Chinese wife for 25 years I also have more than a few Chinese friends however sometimes you need to contain your enthusiasm and show a little restraint.
What is so difficult about letting togs who you know personally, and can trust them not to the same or widely disperse the information, know in private rather than naively advertising it on the internet for all and sundry to see ? The Rubbish Dump is ample proof of what the 'hordes' can do, there is a huge difference between being a 'good guy' and being environmentally aware.

Frogfish said:

Yes and Yes. You have seen the virtual total destruction of the Rubbish Dump site for yourself (yet I notice you did not make any comment about it). I don't see how you can recognise what is happening in the 'Nets' thread and yet ignore what is happening right before your eyes on Yang Shan. . . .

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I'm glad you mentioned Garbage Dump Valley. First of all, I did mention it in my post above. I wrote that I even picked up trash. But I was at the Garbage Dump just as this current photographic rush was starting, in September. Garbage Dump Valley was no pristine wonderland then; the prime spot for the varied tits is next to an outhouse, for crying out loud. And while the photographers have contributed to the amount of trash there, and while fake props and luring birds with mealworms are not my style, I think that the claims of "destruction" and "devastation" are exaggerations.

On Saturday, I made two stops to Garbage Dump Valley: in the early morning and in the late afternoon. In the early morning, there were no robins to be seen. By late afternoon, a pair had appeared. Two new Japanese robins arrived! Why would robins be using the Garbage Dump if it's been "ruined" and "devastated"? I counted four varied tits on Saturday, the same number that I counted in September. The tits have survived a long time at the Garbage Dump, despite the photographers.

On Saturday, the photographers were luring the newly arrived robins with mealworms. The hungry robins were gobbling them up. These were purely wild birds that arrived at the Garbage Dump without any influence from any photographer. There were 20, 25 photographers in a circle, with the robins in the middle. Again, that's not my style; but if Westerners can delight in feeding blue tits and cardinals suet and stale bread, then why can't Chinese photographers throw out some mealworms for the Japanese robins?

The most valid criticism of Chinese photographers is that they're fiddling while Rome burns. In the midst of a huge environmental crisis in this country, they're content to celebrate birds, when the best thing to do would be to become activists and protect the birds. But let's not forget, they may be fiddling, but they themselves did not start the fire. Chinese photographers are far from being the biggest problem wild birds face in this country.

Lesser Yangshan Island, 24 Nov. 2012

Here's my latest report. I have an image of an Asian verditer flycatcher below; more to come. Enjoy!

Saturday 24 Nov. 2012

I arrived on Friday night at the Holiday Inn in Nanhui. My goal: to spend the weekend on Lesser Yangshan Island. I wanted to witness the change in the birding situation after three straight rainy days.

On Saturday, I watched dawn break over the East China Sea. It was a clear, cool morning. On the pavement below my room was an East Siberian white wagtail (Motacilla alba ocularis; grey back, black eye stripe). Two pale thrushes were foraging. A long-tailed shrike flew by.

Driving my rented Chevy Lova, I crossed the Donghai Bridge and headed for the grassy area along Donghai Avenue. Several dozen dusky thrushes were foraging. A pale thrush was in the mix, and a Daurian redstart was hunting. Dusky thrushes occasionally were squabbling; I tried to photograph them fighting, but had little success. The morning light was gorgeous on the dusky thrushes, with their combination of brown, buff, and rufous plumage.

I drove to Garbage Dump Valley. The weekend photographers already were arriving. There was a lively flock of four Far Eastern great tits and four varied tits. Something in the trees caught my attention. It was a white-bellied green pigeon! I'd never seen one before. The bird was hungry and tired; it dozed right in front of us. I spotted a Eurasian wryneck roosting in the trees, and a single bohemian waxwing appeared. Later, a lone Asian verditer flycatcher attracted everyone's attention, so much so that I almost missed my only Japanese thrush of the day, a female. Red-flanked bluetails (no adult males) were flying around, and of course Chinese bulbuls were omnipresent, as were the local Eurasian tree sparrows.

About 20 photographers were following the verditer, a striking turquoise bird and one only rarely seen this far north. The flycatcher paid little attention to us; it kept to the upper canopy. After a while, I broke off from the crowd. Just outside the Valley, I found some hidden garden plots, well-watered, but lacking trees; Daurian redstarts were there, and some dusky thrushes, but little else. When I came back, I spotted the verditer, this time unfollowed. The flycatcher was in the scrub at the base of Garbage Dump Valley, near the place where visitors park. Finally, I had my chance for quality time with the verditer. I achieved some very sharp images.

I drove up Greater Guanyin Mountain. I saw a grey heron on the side of the road. The bird was either very much used to humans or sick or injured. It was able to feed, and I saw no visible damage. I quickly got some good shots at close range, then I carefully moved away.

I brought Subway sandwiches from Shanghai. I ate one on "Golden Pond" (the picturesque and usually birdy reservoir at the western base of Greater Guanyin). It was midday, and the sun was strong. Perhaps the midday sun explained the lack of interesting species. The usual Chinese bulbuls and Daurian redstarts were there, and dusky thrushes were popping up, making their kazoo-like little squeaks. A yellow-throated bunting came out of nowhere, and four Eurasian siskins were foraging along the path leading up to Guanyin Temple. Long-tailed shrikes were conspicuous. Eastern buzzards were patrolling above.

I descended to my car. At the grassy area along Donghai Avenue, I made another attempt at photographing sparring dusky thrushes, again with little success. But as the afternoon light softened, I got fine images of duskies at close range, and I was able to shoot them devouring worms. Amur white wagtails (M. a. leucopsis) were present in some numbers along the road. A female blue rock thrush looked sublime on a wall.

I drove back to Garbage Dump Valley. The man at the gate was reluctant to let me in; "There's already 20 cars in there!" he said. But earlier in the week, I'd made friends with the man, and I'd given him one of my business cards. He let me pass.

Once I got there, the guys were saying, "Where've you been?" A pair of Japanese robins, a male and a female, was keeping the photographers busy. Where had the robins come from? In the morning no one had seen any robins. The robins must have flown in during the afternoon.

The photographers set mealworms on sticks and rocks, and the robins were coming right out into the open to devour them. Twenty guys with cameras were on either side of these robins, and the robins didn't care. They wanted those mealworms. The photographers got their images, and the robins got their protein.

I'm not into luring birds with mealworms, and I find the props too fake for my taste. But the mealworms and the props clearly weren't harming the robins. These purely wild birds arrived under the own power and were taking advantage of the feeding windfall provided by the photographers. In addition, mealworms very much resemble the natural food these insectivores consume. If the robins were residents of the area and were prone to becoming dependent on handouts from photographers, then I'd have been concerned; but these robins won't linger here.

Still, I was happy when the photographers left. Finally I had my time alone with the robins. I have become adept at low-light photography, and I relished the opportunity to photograph the robins in the near-dark. I had nothing to give them, but the robins stayed around anyway, hunting for any mealworms they may have missed. These fearless little travelers foraged until well after the moon had become the brightest object in the sky.

For a few moments, I had the two Japanese robins in front of me, the verditer flycatcher still hunting in the trees above, and the varied tits feeding in the trees and on the ground. Three unusual species, in one unlikely forest, all within a few meters of me. The great Donghai Bridge was lighting up, and the sea was below. Wow. It's a romantic spot, this Garbage Dump Valley.

At 1730 the robins flew away one last time. I left them to their rest. I drove back to Nanhui in the dark.

Sunday 25 Nov. 2012

When I awoke before dawn, it was already drizzling. The drizzle turned into a steady rain. I packed up my gear and drove home.

thrush said:

...... in September. Garbage Dump Valley was no pristine wonderland then; the prime spot for the varied tits is next to an outhouse, for crying out loud. And while the photographers have contributed to the amount of trash there, and while fake props and luring birds with mealworms are not my style, I think that the claims of "destruction" and "devastation" are exaggerations.

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...or they are in fact far from exaggerations and you either didn't see the original condition or don't want to admit it because 'many of them are my friends' and potential clients perhaps ? Or maybe we have different definitions and you have far more tolerance to large areas of this small area being cleared of vegetation for tripods, and trees and branches that get in the way removed with branches broken off to make perches for the birds (with the mealworms underneath).
I suggest you go back and read McMadd's and my threads again (and yes you said you picked up rubbish but no you did not mention the extensive damage - maybe because you were not aware of it's original condition though the many freshly broken saplings and branches should have been a clue). Pristine ? No. But the devastation caused to the environment there is horrifying.
And what has the fact the Varied Tits like the location next to an outhouse (which has a dripping tap they drink from and the trees there were loaded with berries) got to do with anything !

thrush said:

.On Saturday, I made two stops to Garbage Dump Valley: in the early morning and in the late afternoon. In the early morning, there were no robins to be seen. By late afternoon, a pair had appeared. Two new Japanese robins arrived! Why would robins be using the Garbage Dump if it's been "ruined" and "devastated"? I counted four varied tits on Saturday, the same number that I counted in September. The tits have survived a long time at the Garbage Dump, despite the photographers.

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Surprisingly I doubt birds have yet learnt to be environmentally aware. They use the islands the same way birds have for centuries no doubt. Having food, fresh water and cover on a generally barren rock there is nowhere much else for them to go without leaving the islands completely and deviating from their chosen migration route.

thrush said:

.On Saturday, the photographers were luring the newly arrived robins with mealworms. The hungry robins were gobbling them up. These were purely wild birds that arrived at the Garbage Dump without any influence from any photographer. There were 20, 25 photographers in a circle, with the robins in the middle. Again, that's not my style; but if Westerners can delight in feeding blue tits and cardinals suet and stale bread, then why can't Chinese photographers throw out some mealworms for the Japanese robins?

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Did I say they can't ? Not my style either and if that works for them great, but don't trash the environment to do it. My objection is purely to the numbers of people arriving, and the damage they are deliberately causing, due in a greater part to information on the location they have found in the internet. That path where these 20-25 togs were set up in a circle was originally only wide enough for one person to walk up, side by side was not even possible. Consider that before flippantly dismissing the use of the word devastation again.

thrush said:

.The most valid criticism of Chinese photographers is that they're fiddling while Rome burns. In the midst of a huge environmental crisis in this country, they're content to celebrate birds, when the best thing to do would be to become activists and protect the birds. But let's not forget, they may be fiddling, but they themselves did not start the fire. Chinese photographers are far from being the biggest problem wild birds face in this country.

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Quite, but we really can make a difference to our own patch if we are more circumspect can't we.

And well done for completely missing, or evading, the whole point of my complaint ....not once did I mention any effect on the bird population but on the environment and how using the internet to give precise information on locations can have an adverse effect.
You listed all the locations the car number plates were registered to - it was rare that we ever saw any other car/tog there before the Varied's arrived and this information was posted and dispersed amongst photographers. A odd hiker or two and the Chinese birder with his P&S (and he says he never gives any information to the togs because, after 3 years of using this area as his patch, he is aware of what will follow).

Let's distill this debate to it's core.

All I was asking was that you be more circumspect and vague with the information on locations you disperse on the internet, for some dubious reasons (informing your friends - who it seems don't own mobile phones) you seem to find that discretion is not required.

However you agree there has been some damage to the local environment and lots of rubbish left behind - I would have thought even that was proof and reason enough not to publicise exact locations.

I find your attitude to information dissemination more than puzzling considering that you are a conservationist, a guide and would be publisher.

Frogfish said:

...or they are in fact far from exaggerations and you either didn't see the original condition or don't want to admit it because 'many of them are my friends' and potential clients perhaps ?

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My market is foreigners; I'm defending the truth, not my customers. And the truth is, photographers have caused some damage to Garbage Dump Valley. But it's not devastation. The saplings will grow back; the trash can be picked up. Even the cats, which to me are the biggest problem there, could be removed. There's been no irreversible damage.

If you want to see "devastation," then go to San Jia Gang (三甲港), near Pudong Airport. That place, which used to attract (to name just a few species) Oriental and Pacific golden plovers, little curlews, and Oriental pratincoles by the dozens, has been devastated--"devastated" meaning "changed beyond recognition; damaged beyond repair." The place where I once gleefully lay just meters from 30 Oriental plovers now lies buried under 30 m of rubble. The old grass farm at San Jia Gang will never attract large numbers of migrating shorebirds again.

I am circumspect about reporting sites. For example, this month my client and I stumbled upon a Japanese robin at Century Park. I was torn between what I felt was a duty to report (in Hong Kong and in the West, a FAILURE to report is considered a faux pas) and my desire to prevent a stampede. A Chinese birder was with me the day I found the robin, and she started spreading the word that Craig had found a robin. Photographers and birders were calling me, impatient to get the info.

Finally, I compromised: After 48 hours, I posted to shwbs.org, and I never publicly revealed the exact location in the park where I found the Japanese robin.

I have heard that even my tardy report caused a rush of lookers to Century Park. Apparently no one found the robin there, which gives me mixed feelings; I want folks to enjoy that bird as much as I did, and yet I don't want a melee.

By the way: Weren't you part of the party that first found the varied tits on Lesser Yangshan? And didn't you or one of the guys in your group publish a report? If so, then perhaps one of the English-speaking Chinese photographers read the report and spread the word.

thrush said:

I am circumspect about reporting sites.

....I posted to shwbs.org, and I never publicly revealed the exact location in the park where I found the Japanese robin.

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I didn't intend to start a war, or a character assassination, here. This is exactly what I thought I had respectfully asked for - one of your excellent reports but without a precise location.

thrush said:

By the way: Weren't you part of the party that first found the varied tits on Lesser Yangshan? And didn't you or one of the guys in your group publish a report? If so, then perhaps one of the English-speaking Chinese photographers read the report and spread the word.

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Our threads and reports are there for all to see. If I named the site then show me - as I said we use synonyms so the general location is identified but not the precise spot, so difficult for anyone not knowing the area to figure out where it is (for this exact reason I didn't call it the Rubbish Tip area until very recently).
The 'rush' didn't start until a few weeks after we had found them though and so as we don't post on Chinese forums it's highly unlikely we were the source (and I'm not accusing you of being the source either - just asking for more discretion on locations which as yet remain 'undiscovered' even though visible from the road. It seems very few people bother to go up that road).

Rare to See a Verditer So Far North

In China, the Asian verditer flycatcher is a mainly southwestern species, with some individuals migrating eastward to the coast in winter. Usually, they're not found farther north than Fujian, but occasionally an individual wanders up the coast. I photographed this male on Saturday on Lesser Yangshan Island. Lesser Yangshan Island is far from Fujian. It's in the East China Sea, 30 km off the coast of Shanghai at 30.4 degrees north latitude.

在中国，铜蓝鹟 (tónglán wēng, Eumyias thalassinus) 基本上生活在西南地带。冬天，有的铜蓝鹟往东飞去，但是很难在福建更北的地方发现它们。我上个周六在小洋山拍到了这只铜蓝鹟。小洋山是在远离福建的中国东海沿岸，距上海市30公里。处在北纬30.4度。

White-bellied green pigeon (红翅绿鸠, hóngchì lǜjiū, Treron sieboldii), Garbage Dump Valley, Lesser Yangshan Island, Saturday.

Mysterious Migrants . . .

These are the Japanese robins from Saturday at Garbage Dump Valley on Lesser Yangshan Island. A male and female arrived together in the late morning or early afternoon. Where had they last been? Have they been traveling together?

这是上个周六在小洋山的垃圾谷里见到的日本歌鸲。雄的，雌的都在一起到了那里。我能确定，它们周六上午或者下午到了那里。我不能确定，它们是从哪里来的？我也不能确定，它们是不是一直在一起？

On Facebook, my friend Daniel Bengtsson had this to say about the migration of the Japanese robins:

"Most probably they both left Japan at (or shortly after) dusk, the time when most night-migrating birds take off. Usually, they find a place to rest and feed as soon as day breaks, but if they fly over water (or desert) the time of arrival depends on distance and weather/wind. Night-migrating passerines are thought to migrate independently, so the reason they occur together is that they happened to find the same spot. This is of course not pure coincidence, as birds are impressively good at finding suitable stop-over habitats."

I responded:

"Daniel Bengtsson, thanks for the sharp analysis. How fast would Japanese robins fly? I know much depends on the wind, but even with a tailwind I can't see them exceeding 30 km/hr. The distance between Kyushu (southernmost main Japanese island) and Lesser Yangshan is about 650 km. At 30 km/hr., the robins would have needed nearly 22 hours to make the nonstop flight from Kyushu to Lesser Yangshan. What do you make of this?"

In an e-mail to me, Daniel responded:

"Your calculation is correct, as 30 km/h is usually used as average migration speed for passerines. However, for such a critical journey over open water, the birds would most certainly wait for a favourable tailwind, which could speed up the journey considerably."

It's impossible to know for certain how the Japanese robins arrived on Lesser Yangshan. But the idea that they flew overnight from Kyushu holds water.

We know this much: On Saturday, the Japanese robins arrived at about 1400 in Garbage Dump Valley on Lesser Yangshan Island. We also know that dusk is falling these days at about 1700.

It's therefore possible that the robins left Kyushu at 1700 on Friday, flew across the East China Sea at about 30 km/hr., and arrived 21 hours later on Lesser Yangshan.

Great facts about the migration strategy of this tough guy.

With the lack of purple brown shoulder patch you got a female of the pigeon.Any hypothesis about the pigeon how it ended up @ Yangshan? Is it migrating? There was one record from Nanhui in 2005.

Cracking shots of the robins including the Swinhoe's. Been away for a long time, have to catch up a lot :t:

White-bellied Green Pigeon: A First Record for Lesser Yangshan

thirudevaram said:

. . . With the lack of purple brown shoulder patch you got a female of the pigeon.Any hypothesis about the pigeon how it ended up @ Yangshan? Is it migrating? There was one record from Nanhui in 2005. . . .

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Welcome back, Dev! If you view my report of the recent Lesser Yangshan trip on China Bird Report, you'll note that my record of the white-bellied green pigeon on that island is a first: http://birdtalker.net/reportview.asp?id=35619 (I also have the first record of a bohemian waxwing from the island.)

The white-bellied green pigeon is listed as "least concern" on the IUCN Red List, but the population trend is described as "decreasing." It's probably more common in Japan than in China.

There are only 28 records of the white-bellied green pigeon on China Bird Report (dating from 2004), and only a few from sites north of Shanghai. I'd say it's unlikely that the bird was migrating down the Chinese coast.

My guess would be that the bird flew across the East China Sea from Japan. The bird seemed tired, and it was thirsty; it descended to the little stream near the tunnel entrance at Garbage Dump Valley. Five photographers were just a few meters away from the pigeon as it drank.

The pigeon showed its frugivorous nature, consuming berries right in front of me.

You're right, Dev; the lack of a maroon scapular patch is the most visible indication that the individual I photographed is a female.

Any pix of the undertail coverts Craig?

A Whistling Green Pigeon has just shown up in Hong Kong (first record) from the Ryukyus - very similar but narrower white edges to the undertail coverts are the best way to separate them.

Pix of the Hong Kong bird can be found here:

http://www.hkbws.org.hk/BBS/viewthread.php?tid=17574&extra=page=1

Cheers
Mike

thrush said:

I also have the first record of a bohemian waxwing from the island.

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Mark and I had the Japanese Waxwings there exactly a week earlier (on the 17th) but I did not see them there the following week.

MKinHK said:

Any pix of the undertail coverts Craig?

A Whistling Green Pigeon has just shown up in Hong Kong (first record) from the Ryukyus - very similar but narrower white edges to the undertail coverts are the best way to separate them. . . .

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Hello Mike, thanks for the link to the whistling green pigeon. A good record for Hong Kong.

Regarding my bird, I was able to get only a blurry shot of the vent and undertail coverts. I therefore was unable to base my ID on that view. Instead, I used the yellowish-green plumage of the head and upper breast to identify it as Treron sieboldii. Both Brazil ("Birds of East Asia") and HBW Vol. 4 note the deeper, less contrasting green plumage of the whistling green.

Brazil, describing what he calls the "Ryukyu green pigeon" (Treron [formosae] riukiuensis): "Deep green head, upperparts and underparts." The white-bellied green pigeon, by contrast, has a "yellowish-green" head--just like the bird I photographed.

HBW4 on what it calls the "whistling green pigeon" (Treron formosae): "Closely resembles its close relatives T. sphenura and T. seiboldii, but . . . general plumage darker green . . . "

The bird that you linked to at hkbws.org.hk is a deeper, more uniform green than the bird that I photographed.

I have attached two images. One is a blurry view of the vent and undertail coverts. This image is inconclusive, in my opinion; look on Oriental Bird Images at some of the female white-bellied and whistling greens; they have similar green and creamy patterning. My other image shows the yellowish head and its contrast to the deeper green of the upperparts. This image, I think, supports an identification as a white-bellied green pigeon.

Frogfish said:

Mark and I had the Japanese Waxwings there exactly a week earlier (on the 17th) but I did not see them there the following week.

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And you two were the finders of the varied tit on Lesser Yangshan. If you join birdtalker.net and make a report with the date of your sightings, then you'll be credited with having the earliest report.

Recently, I became a reporter on China Bird Report. I am the first birder ever to report (but not necessarily witness) the following incidents:

1. A bohemian waxwing on Lesser Yangshan Island in Zhejiang
2. A white-bellied green pigeon on Lesser Yangshan
3. A Mandarin duck on Lesser Yangshan
4. A Japanese robin at Century Park in Shanghai
5. Varied tits at Zhongshan Park in Shanghai; although there's no "New!" next to my report of the varied tit, I've been unable to find any other report of varied tits at Zhongshan Park on birdtalker.net.

My name on China Bird Report is 大山(雀). I've long used China Bird Report for research. It's a vital source of information. I'm happy to be a contributor!

最近我成为中国观鸟记录中心的记录者。我是以下鸟种在某个地方的第一个报告者（请看鸟种旁边的"New!"）
1、太平鸟在浙江小洋山
2、红翅绿鸠在小洋山
3、鸳鸯在小洋山
4、日本歌鸲在上海世纪公园
5、杂色山雀在上海中山公园
尽管在我报告的杂色山雀后面没有出现"New!"但我并没有发现除我之外别的人在中山公园报告过。
我的中国观鸟记录中心的名字叫大山(雀)。我早就开始使用中国观鸟记录中心的相关记录，对我而言是很重要的资料。我很高兴我也能为记录中心做了点贡献。

I'm deeply into my studies of birds. My work on the e-Guide continues . . . I'm more than halfway through the writing in English!

Birds are much like humans; they're tetrapods (four-limbed vertebrates), they're warm-blooded, they stand upright, and they're visually biased (they get most of their info about their surroundings through their eyes).

But birds are wholly subject to the natural law. Water runs downhill; a hummingbird "knows" that if it flies far enough over the Gulf of Mexico, it'll hit land. No one teaches the hummingbird that, just as no one commands water to run downhill.

我对于鸟类的研究有很浓厚的兴趣。鸟类与我们人类很像，它们是脊椎动物，体温是恒温，直立的站立，并且主要靠视觉去感知（它们通过眼睛获得周围的大部分信息）。但是，鸟类完全遵循自然法则，就像水往低处流一样。一只蜂鸟“知道”如果它要飞行足够远,远到穿越墨西哥湾，那么它就会达到陆地。没有人告诉蜂鸟要这样做，就像没有人命令水要往低处流一样。