john miller
Well-known member
Penny
I think you will find the NO HORSES refers to turning left or right at the Nth end of the drive. Horse are allowed on the beach. At times I have senn up to 10 horse boxes parked in the Drive.
John
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Norfolk birding (30 Viewers)
- Thread starter Edward woodwood
- Start date
Penny
I think you will find the NO HORSES refers to turning left or right at the Nth end of the drive. Horse are allowed on the beach. At times I have senn up to 10 horse boxes parked in the Drive.
John
Paul Woolnough
Well-known member
Why is Holkham / Wells parking so dear? Go elsewhere?
It is OTT.
Everyone should pay the £90 for a permit. Anything over £100 too much.
£3.50 fee also too much.
Not keen NOW to travel across Norwich from my house via the A1067 to Fakenham and on to Holkham and places to the west of there.
Cley and Sheringham are nearer.
Plus there are plenty of locations on the east coast for me to go to, both in Norfolk and Suffolk.
The western end of Holkham Pines is a long way from Lady Anne's Drive.
It is OTT.
Everyone should pay the £90 for a permit. Anything over £100 too much.
£3.50 fee also too much.
Not keen NOW to travel across Norwich from my house via the A1067 to Fakenham and on to Holkham and places to the west of there.
Cley and Sheringham are nearer.
Plus there are plenty of locations on the east coast for me to go to, both in Norfolk and Suffolk.
The western end of Holkham Pines is a long way from Lady Anne's Drive.
Paul Woolnough
Well-known member
What birding will you be doing in 2010?
I plan to spend less time birding North Norfolk (west of Cley).
Limited chances to increase my Norfolk list. Still new birds to see in Suffolk. Have always like birding both counties.
Never mind lifers and county ticks, I hope to see species I have not seen in the Cley Square at Minsmere or in the Yarmouth or Lowestoft (Lounge Lizards) areas in 2010.
The pager may suggest a bird to go and see. Spend the day looking for other species where ever that bird has been reported.
I plan to spend less time birding North Norfolk (west of Cley).
Limited chances to increase my Norfolk list. Still new birds to see in Suffolk. Have always like birding both counties.
Never mind lifers and county ticks, I hope to see species I have not seen in the Cley Square at Minsmere or in the Yarmouth or Lowestoft (Lounge Lizards) areas in 2010.
The pager may suggest a bird to go and see. Spend the day looking for other species where ever that bird has been reported.
David Norgate
Well-known member
If memory serves me correctly 3 flew over Cley a while back, but none have settled yet. Maybe the winds over the next few days might bring some in. However, they are an irruptive species, so it will depend on conditions on the continent. Anyone know if there are any moving over there?
john miller
Well-known member
Dont bank on £3.50, if they have put the season permit up so much., recon this will be at least £5.00
John
Penny its a good job nobody phoned in your snow goose. There has been a study by Jenny Gill that showed birdwatchers along with farming opperations were the biggest cause of disturbance to Norfolk pinkfeet. I have seen many times birders trying to get too close to the goose flocks and disturbing them off their feeding grounds , something they cant afford at this time of year with greatly reduced feeding light and food availibity with the reduction of acerage of sugar beet. Interestingly you would have thought shooting would have been a major disturbance , but it came
10th on the list in her 3 year study. I have seen snow geese several times this year in the goose flocks along with barnacles , and a couple of family groups of Tundra beans , but always maintain for the gooses sake a policy of silence. After all we have no oblication to inform others and indeed I would rather not see a rarety than join the crowds that gather at some hot spots. It would be great to get away from this schoolboy train spoting mentality and just enjoy the birds for what they are and not just another tick on the list that so many seem to care so much about.
10th on the list in her 3 year study. I have seen snow geese several times this year in the goose flocks along with barnacles , and a couple of family groups of Tundra beans , but always maintain for the gooses sake a policy of silence. After all we have no oblication to inform others and indeed I would rather not see a rarety than join the crowds that gather at some hot spots. It would be great to get away from this schoolboy train spoting mentality and just enjoy the birds for what they are and not just another tick on the list that so many seem to care so much about.
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David Norgate
Well-known member
You already are away from your so-called 'train spotting mentality' and that is a choice you have made, why criticise other people's choices?
Am I wrong in thinking that the number of pink-feet that come to Norfolk is still continuing to rise? They are still rare in Essex and Kent (and to a lesser extent Suffolk), but these are areas that they could move onto if they are being disturbed too much by birders. Is there any evidence in the study that shows a link to fatalities? Yes, I understand that some birders are inconsiderate to the birds and locals, but it is not justified to label all birders like this, in the same way I have not criticized you for being a suppressor (even if it is only of Bean Geese, although there have been other birds).
Each to their own, lets educate rather than criticize.
PS I think you'll find Penny did report her sighting to RBA, although I could be wrong, it has been known!
DA - I understand your point of view here!
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john miller
Well-known member
About 18 Barnacles dropped onto Nth scrape Cley early afternoon, also the Twite along the Beach Rd are often sitting on wires close to the sluice
John
http://kellingnaturegallery.fotopic.net/
John
http://kellingnaturegallery.fotopic.net/
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David Norgate
Well-known member
Great pics, John
David , the numbers of pinkfeet seem to have peaked on the N Norfolk coast and over the past 2 years numbers are down on several roosts. I suspect as we see further declines in the acerage of sugar beet as grants are further reduced , pink foot numbers are likely to drop further on the North coast. Though we have always had several thousand pinks in the county today its sugar beet the majority come for.
There are no sugar beet fields in Kent and the majority of Essex beet is grown in the north close to the factory at Bury St Edmunds. The thing many people do not realise is that the number of beet fields available to the geese is restricted to suitable fields ( big enough ) , distance from disturbance and distance from the roost. Thus probably 75% of the beet fields in Norfolk are no good for to the geese. This is being further compounded by new harvesting methods were the beet is lifted and ploughed again within days and sometimes hours. So the beet is no longer left in the fields for weeks or months as in the past. Couple that with the declining acerage means good feeding fields are in short supply and disturbance becomes an increasingly important issue.
As for my 'train spotting mentality' I never had it. If I want to find birds I look at the weather the habitat and search for them. If i do not find it there is always next week\month\year\decade. I can never see any point in watching birds that someone else has already found. Where as to find your own dusky warbler or spend a day watching the antics or a group of breeding dunnocks is shear magic.
As for supression unless the birds are at an already well watched point such as a reserve set up for birders I never put any information on the pagers. I will never forget one afternoon inland from Holkham where 10,000 pink feet had been feeding for over a week along with a couple of bean geese. I was watching from my car from behind a beet pile over several days causing no problems when 2 female so called experianced birders turned up. I asked them to watch from a safe distance close by ( 300 yards ). To which one said " O we know what we are doing , we have been goose watching for years ". They proceded to drive to within 100 yards and got out of thir car at which the whole flock lifted. They somehow spotted the beans and put them out on the pager. Odd small flocks kept trying to return to the field all afternoon , but the increasing numbers of pager informed birders spooked them and the big flock never returned to this field to feed for the remainder of the winter. Just because they are half tame on some of the reserves its wrong to assume they will be when out on the farmland or marshes.
There are no sugar beet fields in Kent and the majority of Essex beet is grown in the north close to the factory at Bury St Edmunds. The thing many people do not realise is that the number of beet fields available to the geese is restricted to suitable fields ( big enough ) , distance from disturbance and distance from the roost. Thus probably 75% of the beet fields in Norfolk are no good for to the geese. This is being further compounded by new harvesting methods were the beet is lifted and ploughed again within days and sometimes hours. So the beet is no longer left in the fields for weeks or months as in the past. Couple that with the declining acerage means good feeding fields are in short supply and disturbance becomes an increasingly important issue.
As for my 'train spotting mentality' I never had it. If I want to find birds I look at the weather the habitat and search for them. If i do not find it there is always next week\month\year\decade. I can never see any point in watching birds that someone else has already found. Where as to find your own dusky warbler or spend a day watching the antics or a group of breeding dunnocks is shear magic.
As for supression unless the birds are at an already well watched point such as a reserve set up for birders I never put any information on the pagers. I will never forget one afternoon inland from Holkham where 10,000 pink feet had been feeding for over a week along with a couple of bean geese. I was watching from my car from behind a beet pile over several days causing no problems when 2 female so called experianced birders turned up. I asked them to watch from a safe distance close by ( 300 yards ). To which one said " O we know what we are doing , we have been goose watching for years ". They proceded to drive to within 100 yards and got out of thir car at which the whole flock lifted. They somehow spotted the beans and put them out on the pager. Odd small flocks kept trying to return to the field all afternoon , but the increasing numbers of pager informed birders spooked them and the big flock never returned to this field to feed for the remainder of the winter. Just because they are half tame on some of the reserves its wrong to assume they will be when out on the farmland or marshes.
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David Norgate
Well-known member
Tideliner, thank you for your post. The first part is very informative and useful to my understanding of Pink-feet, hopefully others will also find it interesting.
I didn't mean to infer you ever had that mentality, as I know you don't, just that you, as one, prove that it can be avoided, if that is what you choose to do.
Unfortunately, there will always be people like the ones you mention. However, there will always be people who will check out the goose flocks and many will put out news. Interestingly these flocks are usually near the coast and it is my (limited) experience that it is better that one flock is disturbed by news being released than people aimlessly disturbing many flocks and finding birds in more inaccessible places - it's the old Loch Garten Osprey theory, one I like!!
I didn't mean to infer you ever had that mentality, as I know you don't, just that you, as one, prove that it can be avoided, if that is what you choose to do.
Unfortunately, there will always be people like the ones you mention. However, there will always be people who will check out the goose flocks and many will put out news. Interestingly these flocks are usually near the coast and it is my (limited) experience that it is better that one flock is disturbed by news being released than people aimlessly disturbing many flocks and finding birds in more inaccessible places - it's the old Loch Garten Osprey theory, one I like!!
stuart white
Well-known member
To be honest though is seeing a bean goose really worth disturbing 1,000's of feeding Pink feet. They look pretty much the same anyway !! I have to agree with tideliner on this, the birds welfare must come first. Just go to cantley and look at some distant heads
Songkhran
Well-known member
through your own logic you seem to be implicating yourself in this Dave surely you should protest and force yourself not to go when news is released on Geese and anyway 'better' for who surely not the Geese being continually bothered :smoke:, ''people'' can look in old copies of the Bird Report and locate historic sites and find Bean Geese pretty easily, they might not find them first time but they might find something else interesting - surely this rule applies to all Norfolk winter specialities, i think this 'theory' is called finding your own birds
Will be checking Geese in my area tomorrow - wasn't going to put news out anyway but definitely won't be now!
Dave Appleton
Well-known member
Well, just to be contrary (cf. my previous post on the topic of suppressing goosey news), the Snow Goose at Titchwell is currently showing (well, it was yesterday lunchtime and it sounds like it was in the same place today) in a place where it is relatively easy to see from a safe distance on Choseley Road without disturbing it and without annoying the local farmers. So on this occasion I don't think there was any real harm in putting the news out (not that I did, suppressing old git that I am - but it was already on the pager).
I assume the 2 Canadas in with the flock yesterday were feral birds from the reserve, or has anyone seen them moving around with the Pinks?
Any of you fellow goose suppressors seen anything else interesting this winter yet? I heard that that hybrid was back but haven't seen it yet this winter - and I see there's been an unusually marked schizochromatic bird up north which I'd like to see here, along with several wild Canadas. For me so far nothing better than several sightings of the Snow, the Pale-bellied Brent (is it the same bird that's seen each winter - since at least 2003?) and some Barnacles.
I assume the 2 Canadas in with the flock yesterday were feral birds from the reserve, or has anyone seen them moving around with the Pinks?
Any of you fellow goose suppressors seen anything else interesting this winter yet? I heard that that hybrid was back but haven't seen it yet this winter - and I see there's been an unusually marked schizochromatic bird up north which I'd like to see here, along with several wild Canadas. For me so far nothing better than several sightings of the Snow, the Pale-bellied Brent (is it the same bird that's seen each winter - since at least 2003?) and some Barnacles.
Songkhran
Well-known member
Haven't had to go further than my own doorstep to get Snow Goose, Dave but then thats been the case all year :-O. The usual motley bunch still there that you would have a field day with, but then you could always go hang out in a farmyard
David Norgate
Well-known member
Excellent, some good discussion!!
Out of interest, Tideliner, is the research you mention published anywhere on the web? Would it be possible to have a full summery put on here? Discussion about the local, national and international position of these types are interesting, but I do not always know where to locate them, which is why I ask questions.
Josh, interesting take on logic! It is possible to see these without disturbing the birds and maybe there would be the opportunity to educate! Do you stop yourself from going to look at a bird on your patch, or would you explain this away as being 'completely different'? But then again I wouldn't expect anything different from youo, as you are are the cusp of a dichotomy in this birding game (I presume the word 'get' was carefully chosen!). Do you still carry a pager so you know where to avoid:king: (sorry really should stop this now!):eat::-O:eat:
Agreed, Stu, but then again they might soon become a separate species (or will they all be lumped again with Pink-feet, as you vaguely suggested)
Edit: with all my smilies, Josh, this looks like the type of text I read with my daughter!!
Out of interest, Tideliner, is the research you mention published anywhere on the web? Would it be possible to have a full summery put on here? Discussion about the local, national and international position of these types are interesting, but I do not always know where to locate them, which is why I ask questions.
Josh, interesting take on logic! It is possible to see these without disturbing the birds and maybe there would be the opportunity to educate! Do you stop yourself from going to look at a bird on your patch, or would you explain this away as being 'completely different'?
But then again I wouldn't expect anything different from youo, as you are are the cusp of a dichotomy in this birding game (I presume the word 'get' was carefully chosen!). Do you still carry a pager so you know where to avoid:king: (sorry really should stop this now!):eat::-O:eat:Agreed, Stu, but then again they might soon become a separate species (or will they all be lumped again with Pink-feet, as you vaguely suggested
)Edit: with all my smilies, Josh, this looks like the type of text I read with my daughter!!
Jono L
Well-known member
And now for some bird news!
Two Peregrines at Buckenham first thing, one of which nearly took out a Lapwing.
Otherwise, 6 Marsh harriers coming out of Strumpshaw Fen and several Stonechats.
Also, a corking fox scaring the wigeon on the river and a beautiful sunrise over the frosty marshes.
Cheers
Jono
Two Peregrines at Buckenham first thing, one of which nearly took out a Lapwing.
Otherwise, 6 Marsh harriers coming out of Strumpshaw Fen and several Stonechats.
Also, a corking fox scaring the wigeon on the river and a beautiful sunrise over the frosty marshes.
Cheers
Jono
Andy Musgrove
Well-known member
Hi David - for info on the status of different waterbird species, you can check out the Wetland Bird Survey reports, which can be downloaded as pdfs from http://www.bto.org/webs/news/websdownloads.htm (latest there is for 2006-07 and 2007-08 is due back from the printers this week). Another useful ref for geese in particular is on WWT's site - e.g.
http://www.wwt.org.uk/research/monitoring/species/pinkfoot.asp
Cheers
Andy
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