What happens to wildlife when war comes (1 Viewer)

GiGi · Jul 27, 2006

Of course we all concerned when humans suffer at time of war - but what happens to wildlife and domestic pets, what concerns are there and what happens to captured species in Zoos home and in the wild.

MY feeling is at these times humans are so busy looking after themselves that concerns for other species is maybe on the whole non existent.

Georgina

deborah4 · Jul 27, 2006

Hi Georgina

The simple answer is they suffer enormously
http://www.looking-glass.co.uk/animalsinwar/

It's not just resident animals but other wildlife such as migratory birds - the decline of the Northern Bald Ibis is thought due in part to the bird's winter migration over Middle Eastern war zones although there winter home is not known see also:

The Siberian Crane is globally endangered. During the American bombing runs in Afghanistan during 2001/2 the Cranes and tens of thousands of ducks and other birds were disturbed during their migration. Now, entire bird populations have since gone missing across the entire Afghan and Pakistan region, which is a major migratory route for many species.

(from above link)

and this story about Bagdad Zoo

http://www.freedommag.org/english/LA/issue07i2/page08.htm

and they continue to need our help
http://animals.beirut.com/viewNew.php?ID=212

KnockerNorton · Jul 27, 2006

It all depends on what species and where. In Vietnam, with defoliation, it would have been catastrophic for wildlife. In the Balkans and WW2 Russia, with all the bodies around, wolves had a great time, but the widespread availability nof guns usually means that it's bad in the medium-long run. Think of gorillas and chimps in DR Congo.

Jos Stratford · Jul 27, 2006

As mentioned, some positive side-effects, for example I believe Avocets made their first return to the UK with the flooding of East Coast coastal lands during WWII to make a potential landing mor difficult. Overall though as Poecile says, I think generally its bad bad bad - more guns, more poaching. Not just in war, but political collapse, such as in Zimbabwe ...this country was making massive steps in the right direction with conservation and Black Rhinos were doing pretty good after a period of heavy poaching. I understand the situation has reversed again.

Also, oil supplies have become a favoured target for bombing, both by Hussian in the first Gulf War, insurgents in the present conflicts in that region and, in the last days, the bombing of Beirut by Israel included destruction of oil storage facilities - the entire coast, stretching to Bibyle is now heavily polluted by oil. Environment, not just the country's inhabitants, pay the price of politics.

KnockerNorton · Jul 27, 2006

Depopulation, eg of Darfur, and around Chernobyl, is usually good for wildlife, and war does limit development (thus no new motorways, housing, roads, airports, ports) but then habitat can be degraded by refugees (eg chopping firewood, poaching). Stability brings economic development, which tends to expand rapidly into building development and infrastructre, and only after an expansive and destructive (in terms of habitats) period is conservation and national parks considered. War is porbably bad news if you're a tiger or a chimp, but probably great if you're a small bird or an insect.

One way of looking at oil spills, Jos, that at least that oil wont be going up into the atmosphere. With the burning of the Kuwaiti/Iraqi wells etc, all of that pollution was going up there at some point anyway.

jurek · Jul 27, 2006

Poecile said:
Depopulation, eg of Darfur

War in Darfur is disaster for wildlife. Armed poachers from Sudan invade neighboring countries. In 2006 they wiped out Northern White Rhinos in Garamba NP - last wild ones on the planet. By latest news, only 4 rhinos remain - unknown if they still live today, or if any female in breeding age survived. Also slaughter of last Congolese subspecies of giraffe, elephants etc.

Liban conflict endangers migratory birds breeding in Europe. For Lesser Spotted and Spotted Eagles from E. Europe, killing on migration in Middle East is main limiting factor. Now, with lots of guns and lack of control it is going to be disaster.

These are specific examples, all other wildlife suffers as well.

Blackstart · Jul 27, 2006

jurek said:
Liban conflict endangers migratory birds breeding in Europe. For Lesser Spotted and Spotted Eagles from E. Europe, killing on migration in Middle East is main limiting factor. Now, with lots of guns and lack of control it is going to be disaster.

Hi Jurek,

Who are you suggesting will be killing migrating raptors on migration through the Middle East?

Adam

jurek · Jul 27, 2006

Blackstart said:
Who are you suggesting will be killing migrating raptors on migration through the Middle East?

It is popular pasttime of some hunters in Liban.

More guns, no chance of any campaign or law enforcement = more dead raptors. :C

Blackstart · Jul 27, 2006

jurek said:
It is popular pasttime of some hunters in Liban. More guns, no chance of any campaign or law enforcement = more dead raptors. :C

Thanks.

Adam

Evanji Axu · Jul 27, 2006

Animals + War + Hungry/Angry soldiers = EVERYTHING DIES.

John Butler · Jul 27, 2006

As war escalates, the normal supplies of food and other essentials dries up. People, through hunger, are then driven to trapping, shooting, picking and eating things that would not normally be on their diet sheets, ie, fish, frogs, eels, insects, plants, animals, birds etc.

The need to survive overcomes any squeamishness that they might previously have had about eating certain things.

deborah4 · Jul 27, 2006

Blackstart said:
Hi Jurek,

Who are you suggesting will be killing migrating raptors on migration through the Middle East?

Adam

If you check out the link I posted above Adam, it's not just breakdown in law and order regarding raptor persecution but migratory birds, in particular the Siberian Crane have had routes severely disrupted flying over Eastern European war zones. Conservationists working with the Northern Bald Ibis in the Middle East are very concerned about the possible migratory and breeding disruption of this critically endangered species (summer breeding ground is in Syria but winter home unknown largely due to the inaccessibility of large parts of the Middle East thus making preservation of this species an uphill task) - existing conservation efforts are always another casualty of war as (often Western) aid workers are unable to remain in territories where conflict escalates.

It's often only after a conflict ceases that the majority of people get on the animal compassion bandwagon - once the human cost has been addressed - by that time, the stable door is too late to close.

The thread starter mentions domestic pets also - which should obviously speak for itself.

To suggest one particular species does well from war or that 'war is great if you are a small bird or insect' just doesn't cut it IHMO - it's absolutely no compensation for loss of habitat and longterm disruption of the food chain.

Jos Stratford · Jul 27, 2006

deborah4 said:
If you check out the link I posted above Adam, it's not just breakdown in law and order regarding raptor persecution but migratory birds, in particular the Siberian Crane have had routes severely disrupted flying over Eastern European war zones.

To suggest one particular species does well from war or that 'war is great if you are a small bird or insect' just doesn't cut it IHMO - it's absolutely no compensation for loss of habitat and longterm disruption of the food chain.

Hi Deborah,

Gist of what you say I agree with, but just a couple of minor points - I believe the war zones that have affected Siberian Crane are Afghanistan and central Asian states (the species did not migrate through Eastern Europe as far as I know), but the principle you outline applies.

As for benefits of war, as you mention, the overall impact can only be negative, but it is true that some species do see benefits for a variety of reasons - not least due to breakdown of irrigation, the reduction in intensive farming, etc. Of course against this, the losses are stacked even higher.

Would guess Black Redstarts and other rubble lovers are in for a bumper year in Lebanon next year

deborah4 · Jul 27, 2006

Jos Stratford said:
Hi Deborah,

... I believe the war zones that have affected Siberian Crane are Afghanistan and central Asian states (the species did not migrate through Eastern Europe as far as I know), but the principle you outline applies.

That's me going a*** over t** with my geography - why did I think Afghanistan was Eastern Europe :eek!:

Jos Stratford)Would guess Black Redstarts and other rubble lovers are in for a bumper year in Lebanon next year :([/QUOTE said:
but not much else probably

Jeff Hopkins · Jul 28, 2006

They say the DMZ here in Korea is a major wildlife habitat now. It's presence keeps metro-Seoul from expanding that much further. Sarcastic soldiers, however, say that it sustains the world's largest population of 3-legged deer (thanks to all the land mines).

Also a possibly apochryphal story. I was in Romania this spring, and was told that when Ceausescu forced everyone out of their homes and into apartments to build his "Civic Center", many people had to give up their pets. Rather than euthanize them, they realeased them onto the streets. Now Bucharest is full of feral dogs. Interestingly, or more likely because of that, I did not see many feral cats.

Hanno · Jul 28, 2006

Vietnam's nature was not only hurt by defoliation (the effects of which can still be seen today), but also by heaps of soldiers without a lot of food (on the Vietnamese side). They supplemented their meager rations with anything they could get.

Having said that, a lot of today's destruction over here is a lot worse.

Blackstart · Jul 28, 2006

deborah4 said:
If you check out the link I posted above Adam, it's not just breakdown in law and order regarding raptor persecution but migratory birds, in particular the Siberian Crane have had routes severely disrupted flying over Eastern European war zones. Conservationists working with the Northern Bald Ibis in the Middle East are very concerned about the possible migratory and breeding disruption of this critically endangered species (summer breeding ground is in Syria but winter home unknown largely due to the inaccessibility of large parts of the Middle East thus making preservation of this species an uphill task) - existing conservation efforts are always another casualty of war as (often Western) aid workers are unable to remain in territories where conflict escalates.

It's often only after a conflict ceases that the majority of people get on the animal compassion bandwagon - once the human cost has been addressed - by that time, the stable door is too late to close.

The thread starter mentions domestic pets also - which should obviously speak for itself.

To suggest one particular species does well from war or that 'war is great if you are a small bird or insect' just doesn't cut it IHMO - it's absolutely no compensation for loss of habitat and longterm disruption of the food chain.

I'm sure all I did was ask Jurek who would be doing the raptor killing. :h?:

Adam

deborah4 · Jul 28, 2006

Blackstart said:
I'm sure all I did was ask Jurek who would be doing the raptor killing. :h?:

Adam

and the thread question, which I was addressing, was asking what happens to domestic and wildlife during war

Bubbs · Jul 28, 2006

deborah4 said:
and the thread question, which I was addressing, was asking what happens to domestic and wildlife during war

I know that many of the innocents caught at this dreadful time do their best to 'crate up' domestic stock and take it with them or leave it somewhere safe. They rarely leave it and run for it. My friends live on a Moshav in Kiryat Shmona near Lebanon and they would never leave their animals, domestic or otherwise.

On a sad note; I know for a fact that some raptors, cranes, and storks were used as target practice in past conflicts.

John.

Xenospiza · Jul 28, 2006

Wake Island Rail went extinct as a direct result of the second world war: http://www.uwsp.edu/geo/faculty/heywood/geog358/extinctb/WakeRail.htm

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