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Holding the Swarovski 8.5x42 EL Swarovision (1 Viewer)

Alexis Powell

Natural history enthusiast
United States
This is a post that I've been meaning to get around to writing ever since the Zeiss 8x42 SF was released. The world hasn't been crying out for this post, but here it is.

In comparing the Zeiss 8x42 SF to the Swarovski 8.5x42 EL Swarovision, one of the supposed advantages of the SF is more ergonomic focus, which is accomplished by (1) placement of focus wheel closer to the central opening for the hand, along with (2) moving most of the bin's glass, and thus its center of gravity, toward the oculars. The first design aspect (according to numerous marketing literature inspired posts), is supposed to make the SF superior because it doesn't require reaching sideways with one's index finger to operate the focus (See illustrations of this supposed problem, for example this one http://www.binomania.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Zeiss_SF_3.jpg or this ridiculously exaggerated one http://www.birdwatching.com/optics/zeiss/zeiss_victory_sf_review.html). The second design aspect is supposed to make the SF feel lighter (presumably when held one-handed with the focusing hand) because it isn't nose-heavy.

I'm all for moving focus wheels farther forward than they are on most of today's roof prisms, so I applaud that design aspect of the SF. In contrast to what Zeiss touts, what I like about such design is that it gets my hands away from my face, which I feel is more comfortable because no thumbs are bonking into my nose, no fingers are smudging my glasses, and air circulation around my face is less impeded thereby preventing fogging of eyeglasses or bins in both cold weather and hot (when humidity is so high that the sweat evaporating off my face threatens to condense on my eyeglasses). Also, forward placement of the hands reduces interference with hat brims. Some past bins that I really liked in this respect were the Bushnell 8x42 Banner roof and the original Bausch & Lomb 8x42 Elite (as seen here https://www.flickr.com/photos/binocwpg/8020982130/in/photostream/ ), both of which had the focus knob in front of the center hinge instead of behind it. Such placement allows a wrap-around grip, even with a conventional hinge. For those who don't like a nose-heavy bin, note that such a forward placement of the hand makes the center of gravity (of the bin itself) irrelevant. In fact, I suspect the lack of nose-heaviness of the SF has more to do with the more forward position of the focusing hand than to the balance point of the bin being closer to the oculars.

All of the above notwithstanding, I'm still mystified that these issues are taken to be relevant to comparing and choosing between the SF and EL. The EL does not enforce an awkward hand position. No strange sideways positioning of the focus fingers is necessary. I prefer a grip that embeds the bin comfortably and securely in my palm, that allows using either or both index and middle finger for rapid focusing, and that makes full use of the length of the bin for support (i.e. one hand in front of the other--apologies to that minority who use both hands simultaneously for focus and thus keep both near the oculars). Fortunately, the 8.5x42 EL lends itself well to such a grip, and furthermore, when holding the bin in such a manner, the focus wheel is far enough in front of the oculars that my focusing hand is still well away from my face.

I've illustrated such a grip before, as applied to the much smaller Leica 8x20 Ultravid BL (see http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=2439175&highlight=solidarity#post2439175 ). Here are images illustrating how I suggest holding the Swarovski 8.5x42 EL Swarovision. Note the comfortable and solid one-hand basis of the hold (image 1). Although it may not be apparent in the pictures, my hand is relaxed and my fingers are comfortably aligned with my palm. Both index and middle finger lie straight across the focus wheel (image 2). My left hand goes in front of the right, and even though my fairly narrow IPD leaves less room than other users will have in the open hinge area, I still have enough room to get all my fingers in the center (image 3), although for some idiosyncratic reason I prefer (with all bins that allow it) to wrap my little finger around the objective lens cell (image 4). Down below, I have enough room for my thumbs, though I wish there were more space between the barrels (as would be the case if my IPD weren't so narrow).

--AP
 

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Correct on all counts Alexis, (well for you anyway :). I can see grips being an individual thing. For instance, on my Zen ED3 (open frame EL copy, though with a much preferable wider, ergonomically shaped bridge, and much larger - length and diameter - knurled alloy focusing wheel), I like to use a push-pull arrangement with the index finger of each hand to focus, and the middle fingers overlap on the wide bridge. Ring fingers and pinkies are then naturally butted up against the bridge with no gap or weird bending or angles, and fully within the open frame. My hands are large so my thumbs each then rest/support the underside of the opposite barrel, despite there being thumb indents further toward the middle of the bin on each gripped barrel. This gives an ultra stable grip that is super comfortable, and ultra quick (with the Zen's fast focuser) and precise to focus. :t:

This, now that I think of it, is probably the reason that I keep the Zen above all others (along with its brightness, sharpness and distortion-free view, and excellent CA control in the central field). It's not that other views aren't better for more of the field, it's just that the other bins don't quite feel right. Had the Swaro 10x50 SV been 200grams lighter, we would be having a different conversation, where I could excuse its slow and girl's blouse sized focuser in an otherwise near as dammit perfect bin. :king:

Yes, you are right that apart from the SF's redistribution of glass weight to an extent, the main trick there comes in moving the hands forward. You (and some others) like this - myself, some others, (and others dodgy of shoulder) not so much ! There is a limit as to how far such snakeoil, smoke and mirrors can take some of us :cat:

I always wear a wide brimmed straw hat too, but it doesn't sit too low. Unleash the can of worms ! o:D


Chosun :gh:
 
Alexis,

Congratulations on solving the puzzle of this wickedly obstreporous observation tool. Seriously, I thought the EL ergonomics was great, but what do I know? I mostly use an individual eyepiece focusing marine Porro.

Ron
 
Helo Alexis. I bought the 8.5x42 SV earlier this year, and have been experimenting with different grips including your asymmetric version. I've found your grip to be quite well balanced, although I personally tend to keep both hands further back towards the eyepieces. It feels a bit front-heavy, but I can deal with that. As an aside, I suppose the reason I enjoy using the Meostar bodies so much is that the balance point and the location of the focuser work well together.
 
Peatmoss, does that apply to the Meostar/Cabelas Euro 12x50 also? (Yes that is a tall order for the designers.) Thank you!
 
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Congratulations on solving the puzzle of this wickedly obstreporous observation tool...

Thanks and you're welcome. I burned a lot of candles many a late night figuring out how to do this, so I'm glad my efforts were not in vain. :)

--AP
 
Alexis:

I understand your post, and that is about finding a better hand position with the EL.

Your pictures show some contortion that nobody should have to go through.

I have used the 8.5x42 EL for over 10 years, and they are a very nice binocular, but ergonomically
they are designed to be used with the thumb detents.

You mentioned the Zeiss SF, and it has improved on many things compared to the SV, the better ergos. larger diameter and smoother focuser, and better balance.

I suppose you can tell, I like the SF better in many ways. You asked for it. ;)

I do have a Swarovski EL SV, the 8x32, it is very good in this size.

Jerry
 
Alexis:

I understand your post, and that is about finding a better hand position with the EL.

Your pictures show some contortion that nobody should have to go through.

I have used the 8.5x42 EL for over 10 years, and they are a very nice binocular, but ergonomically
they are designed to be used with the thumb detents.

You mentioned the Zeiss SF, and it has improved on many things compared to the SV, the better ergos. larger diameter and smoother focuser, and better balance.

I suppose you can tell, I like the SF better in many ways. You asked for it. ;)

I do have a Swarovski EL SV, the 8x32, it is very good in this size.

Jerry

Jerry,

No, I regret you missed my (intentionally obfuscated in a vain attempt at dry humor) point. It isn't about finding a better hand position for the EL, it is that the EL works fine with a perfectly ordinary hand position. I don't understand what contortions it imposes, and wouldn't have thought it did, save for SF propaganda.

I can assure you that my hands are quite relaxed and uncontorted. My fingers are in natural and neutral positions, aligned comfortably with my wrist etc. Yes, some of my fingers (ring and little finger, to be precise) are spread apart, but that is not uncomfortable for me--in fact, when my hands are relaxed the fingers flare apart slightly (my hands don't naturally fall into the shape of mittens!). Maybe the photos don't make it look so good, but that is because photos of hands, like photos of food, always look horrible and disturbing (Lots of money in being a hand model, and in making acrylic food for adverts).

My right hand makes use of the EL thumb detent. I didn't realize that using both was required. I naively thought the other was for those who like to keep their left, rather than right, hand forward. You may be satisfied to know that I sometimes, for variety, modify the grip and extend my left thumb toward the ocular (rather than curled, as shown in image 5, but grip otherwise unchanged) such that the fat part falls into the thumb detent.

I've absolutely nothing against the SF, and I agree that the 8x32 EL has awesome ergonomics (In my opinion, it is unmatched in that regard).

--AP
 
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Wasn't one of the highly touted features of the EL SV series the ergonomics? I've read several reviews that mention that specific aspect. Certainly in use the ergos were always pleasing to me.

I did not, in fact, like the ergos of the SF. To each his own...
 
Wasn't one of the highly touted features of the EL SV series the ergonomics? I've read several reviews that mention that specific aspect. Certainly in use the ergos were always pleasing to me.

I did not, in fact, like the ergos of the SF. To each his own...

Use both for a while, then let us know more about what you think.

There are some large handling differences, those have all been brought
out on the site.

Jerry
 
Use both for a while, then let us know more about what you think.

There are some large handling differences, those have all been brought
out on the site.

Jerry

Meh, I owned a pair of ELs for about 3 years and tried out the SFs a couple of times. The SFs were not to my liking, ergonomically, which for me takes very little time to tell.
 
Mr Powell...
I hope you don't take this the wrong way....but I actually LOL when I read this post! I LOVE it!

It doesn't take rocket science to figure out how to hold a binocular, does it?:t:
 
Mr Powell...
I hope you don't take this the wrong way....but I actually LOL when I read this post! I LOVE it!

It doesn't take rocket science to figure out how to hold a binocular, does it?:t:

Glad you enjoyed the fusion -- fiesty earnest absurdity.

--AP
 
Alex

You most certainly don't have to hold an EL like this but here is how Carina Schiestl-Swarovski (Chairwoman of the Swaro Exec Board) holds it.

Lee
 

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That looks like the SV 8x32. If she was holding the SV 8.5X42 it would be touching the bottom frame of the picture. You'd have to zoom out to get the SV 10x50 if she was holding one :eek!:
 
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