Dawn chorus (1 Viewer)

dram7 · Jan 11, 2010

I am about to address primary school children on a talk about birds and the environment.
Since I was a kid I was an observer of birds.
Now I don't mean id or flight pattern.
I am going to ask them to come back to me with the answer of why birds sing in the morning. They can use the internet or any other method.
I will also point out that they sing just as much in the evening although not so noticeable as when you wake up to it.
The question therefore is why don't birds sing during the day.(as a rule)
The answer is as obvious to me now as it was when I was 11.
However; after searchiong the net I don,t find the answer(which I hope is the case with the kids(they are smarter than me.
There may be a case of sound travelling further or feeding habits but it is not the real reason.
So have a stab.
If you don,t know you haven,t been observant enough

Andrew Whitehouse · Jan 11, 2010

Does there have to be just one reason?

dram7 · Jan 11, 2010

Andrew Whitehouse said:
Does there have to be just one reason?

No. as I have stated but there is definitely a main reason. Other answers would revolve around it.

halftwo · Jan 11, 2010

It's too dark to feed - so singing then doesn't waste time for feeding?

dram7 · Jan 11, 2010

Dawn Chorus

halftwo said:
It's too dark to feed - so singing then doesn't waste time for feeding?

Good try. It may be still dark when they start but they go on a lot longer than that. Also in the evening they sing just as much during daylight.
Not the answer.

davercox · Jan 12, 2010

Sound carries better than in the heat of the day.

[EDIT] and halftwo's answer is also right, though as you say it doesn't explain everything; as Andrew suggested there is more than one reason.

dram7 · Jan 12, 2010

davercox said:
Sound carries better than in the heat of the day.

[EDIT] and halftwo's answer is also right, though as you say it doesn't explain everything; as Andrew suggested there is more than one reason.

All that excepted they are still not the main reason and when I eventually post the answer I am sure you will agree. Lets see if anyone else comes up with it first though.

TheSeagull · Jan 12, 2010

There is more than one reason. They sing at these times because the sound transmission is better at these times and the air is calmer. Their prey is also not active so hunting would be pointless.

Andrew Whitehouse · Jan 12, 2010

Well, according to scientists (and I'm going on the account here in Catchpole & Slater "Bird Song: Biological Themes and Variations") the following are the main advantages to dawn singing:

Sound transmits better then
Feeding conditions are worse than later in the day
There are more territorial vancancies e.g. due to overnight mortality

Other possible reasons include the higher numbers of incoming females (night migrants arriving in the morning) and the higher fertility of females at dawn. They conclude that there are a number of reasons for the high incidence of bird song at dawn but that these mostly tend to be to do with the twin aims of song to keep out rivals and to attract females.

Does that cover it?

Mark Lew1s · Jan 12, 2010

I think you've pretty much got it nailed there Andrew.

But I look forward to seeing what Dram7's answer is...

Andrew Whitehouse · Jan 12, 2010

Fat Paul Scholes said:
I think you've pretty much got it nailed there Andrew.

But I look forward to seeing what Dram7's answer is...

I look forward to it too. I should add that research suggests that the functions of dawn singing vary from species to species, which is not too surprising I suppose (e.g. it's more important for some species than others, some species sing at dawn only early in the breeding season whilst others carry on throughout).

But I'm always genuinely interested in hearing other explanations.

Apodemus · Jan 12, 2010

Fat Paul Scholes said:
I think you've pretty much got it nailed there Andrew.

But I look forward to seeing what Dram7's answer is...

Me too. I have to say that I'm suspending a degree of scepticism though.
I don't trust simple answers.
Mike

dram7 · Jan 12, 2010

Apodemus said:
Me too. I have to say that I'm suspending a degree of scepticism though.
I don't trust simple answers.
Mike

Ok you are pretty much homing in on the function of singing but think more of why there is no or little song during the day.
If nobody comes close, I will give another clue before the answer.

Apodemus · Jan 12, 2010

dram7 said:
...no or little song during the day.
.....

Really?

This had better be good - scepticism is growing by the minute!

Mike (always willing to be surprised and educated)

TheSeagull · Jan 12, 2010

This is a forum that is frequented by qualified ornithologists, I am not one myself but I do not see why you are withholding the "main reason" that birds sing at certain times.

nickderry · Jan 12, 2010

The sun being higher in the sky during the day, gravity has a stronger pull on the birds, stretching their vocal chords out of shape and rendering the noise they make too high-pitched to be heard. As they sun goes down, the tension is released. This is why birds sing wobblier in the evening.

dram7 · Jan 12, 2010

nickderry said:
The sun being higher in the sky during the day, gravity has a stronger pull on the birds, stretching their vocal chords out of shape and rendering the noise they make too high-pitched to be heard. As they sun goes down, the tension is released. This is why birds sing wobblier in the evening.

Stick to the beer nick. If i am wrong I have been living a lie for the last 55 years. I once asked a pigeon fancier who had no interest in wild birds the same question and he gave me the answer.
Observation. Its the name of the game.

dram7 · Jan 12, 2010

TheSeagull said:
This is a forum that is frequented by qualified ornithologists, I am not one myself but I do not see why you are withholding the "main reason" that birds sing at certain times.

Hello neighbour.Aberdeen is my youth stomping ground And where I discovered this and many other facts not known (or not agreed with) about wildlife(not just birds).
I am not withholding the answer(which you will agree with) but remember my quest. I am about to ask primary school children the same question(22nd jan)
so I wondered if they could find the information on the web. Up to now obviously not. If it is coming to the ridicule point I will give in soon.
Any pigeon fanciers out there(nothing to do with cooing)

Apodemus · Jan 12, 2010

I know!

Birdwatchers are generally suffering from hangovers in the morning, so even small gentle sounds like birdsong seem much louder. As the day grinds on and recovery sets in, the birds become less noticable.

Mike

dram7 · Jan 12, 2010

Apodemus said:
I know!

Birdwatchers are generally suffering from hangovers in the morning, so even small gentle sounds like birdsong seem much louder. As the day grinds on and recovery sets in, the birds become less noticable.

Mike

If I didn't know this was a serious website i'd say you were taking the piss

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