Canada gosling with pink bill and feet? Cambridge, MA (1 Viewer)

sb620 · May 28, 2013

So, can anyone tell me why this Canada gosling has a pink bill and feet? All its siblings had dark bills and feet. Taken this afternoon (May 27, 2013) by the Charles River in Cambridge, MA. I have a ton more from different angles if that will help.

Thanks!!

sb

Cheshire Birder · May 28, 2013

I suspect that if both parents are Canadas then some feral farmyard goose genes may have created this one. You may have to wait until it is more well grown to find out the answer.

CB

sb620 · May 28, 2013

Cheshire Birder said:
I suspect that if both parents are Canadas then some feral farmyard goose genes may have created this one. You may have to wait until it is more well grown to find out the answer.

CB

Thank you for the response. That's very interesting. I will try to see how it develops if it stays in the area. Both parents (assuming the ones protecting it are the parents) are Canada geese.

nartreb · May 28, 2013

Also seems quite a bit paler than its "siblings" overall. I'd be tempted to speculate about melanin deficiency but it does have some darker fluff and the eye looks normally dark.

Could be a case of imprinting on the wrong parents or even an egg rolling into the wrong nest. There are a couple spots on the Charles basin (e.g., on the Memorial Drive side of the BU bridge) where white domestic geese can be found in significant numbers and in very close proximity to the Canadas.

Actually, I'm reading that the spot I'm thinking of has been at least partially converted into a parking lot, which may have forced the white geese to get a little bolder about crowding into any remaining sites regardless of Canada neighbors.

sb620 · May 29, 2013

nartreb said:
Also seems quite a bit paler than its "siblings" overall. I'd be tempted to speculate about melanin deficiency but it does have some darker fluff and the eye looks normally dark.

Could be a case of imprinting on the wrong parents or even an egg rolling into the wrong nest. There are a couple spots on the Charles basin (e.g., on the Memorial Drive side of the BU bridge) where white domestic geese can be found in significant numbers and in very close proximity to the Canadas.

Actually, I'm reading that the spot I'm thinking of has been at least partially converted into a parking lot, which may have forced the white geese to get a little bolder about crowding into any remaining sites regardless of Canada neighbors.

Oh, that is interesting. I've never seen any white ones. These geese were on the Storrow Drive side on this particular day, near the Harvard campus. I have some pictures of the gosling that make it seem like he has blueish eyes. Not sure if that has any connection with the melanin deficiency. The siblings' eyes are clearly brown.

nartreb · May 29, 2013

Hm, here's a similar case, except the parents had white-goose phenotype:

http://littlereview.dreamwidth.org/389691.html (scroll down a bit)

Presence of three distinct gosling phenotypes makes a strong case for interbreeding rather than mis-imprinting or egg substitution.

I'd like to see a good photo of a Cambridge white-goose gosling, to see if any have that pale pink color (rather than orange) on legs and bills, and the relatively blue eye ... otherwise I'm still wondering about a pigment mutation.

sb620 · May 29, 2013

Well, this is all very curious. I've never seen a white goose by the Charles near Harvard, just Canada geese. This is the first time I've seen one like this, and it's clear from all of my photos that the bill and feet are pink, not orange. I hope I can watch it grow up and see what it becomes. If you want to see it yourself, the family hangs out on the Storrow Drive side of the river between the Weeks foot bridge and the JFK bridge. Be sure to watch where you step.

nartreb · May 29, 2013

Ah, well technically that's Allston. All kinds of strange things are to be expected there

The white geese are (or were a few years ago) usually found on the north side of the river a little to the east of the Harvard area, from Magazine Beach to the Hyatt Regency. Nests are (were) especially concentrated in a small vacant lot at the foot of the BU bridge that extends to the low railway bridge.

emupilot · May 29, 2013

Could the female Canada have had a fling with a domestic goose?

fugl · May 29, 2013

Yet another possibility is that the two oddball goslings were "adopted". It is not uncommon, at least in urban settings where I most frequently see Canada geese, for 2 or more broods--often of very different ages--to amalgamate under the charge of a single pair. It's also not uncommon for a "childless" goose to attach itself to a pair with young as a "helper". And in settings where Canadas co-occur with domestic geese the helper is sometimes one of these rather than another Canada. In recent years, I've encountered Canada Goose broods with both domestic Graylag & Chinese Swan Goose helpers. I haven't seen a mixed species brood so far, but that may be just chance since Canadas are not only much more numerous locally than feral domestics but tend to be much more successful as breeders.

Cheshire Birder · May 29, 2013

fugl said:
Yet another possibility is that the two oddball goslings were "adopted". It is not uncommon, at least in urban settings where I most frequently see Canada geese, for 2 or more broods--often of very different ages--to amalgamate under the charge of a single pair. It's also not uncommon for a "childless" goose to attach itself to a pair with young as a "helper". And in settings where Canadas co-occur with domestic geese the helper is sometimes one of these rather than another Canada. In recent years, I've encountered Canada Goose broods with both domestic Graylag & Chinese Swan Goose helpers. I haven't seen a mixed species brood so far, but that may be just chance since Canadas are not only much more numerous locally than feral domestics but tend to be much more successful as breeders.

Its a good theory but I think given the original photo, it looks to be the same size as the canada gosling, which would rule out that possiblity.

CB

fugl · May 30, 2013

Cheshire Birder said:
Its a good theory but I think given the original photo, it looks to be the same size as the canada gosling, which would rule out that possiblity.

The similarity in size provides no support for brood amalgamation, certainly, but it hardly rules it out. AFAIK, same-age broods are no more or less likely to merge than any others. And, anyway, I'm not arguing for brood amalgamation in this case, but just raising it as a possibility. As somebody's already suggested, for a definitive answer we'll probably have to wait and see what the goslings look like when they grow up.

Tiraya · May 30, 2013

emupilot said:
Could the female Canada have had a fling with a domestic goose?

Considering waterfowl tend to interbreed often this would not be impossible.

sb620 · May 30, 2013

fugl said:
The similarity in size provides no support for brood amalgamation, certainly, but it hardly rules it out. AFAIK, same-age broods are no more or less likely to merge than any others. And, anyway, I'm not arguing for brood amalgamation in this case, but just raising it as a possibility. As somebody's already suggested, for a definitive answer we'll probably have to wait and see what the goslings look like when they grow up.

This particular brood has four goslings, so probably no brood merging, although an adoption is possible. Here is what brood merging looks like. Between 2 pair of geese, they had at least 40 goslings.

fugl · May 30, 2013

I don't understand your distinction between brood merging and adoption which to my mind are just different words for the same thing. And, sure,, merged broods can be very large--I saw one of 19 a few days ago containing goslings of 3 different sizes--but I've also seen very small ones.

howiewu · May 30, 2013

fugl said:
I don't understand your distinction between brood merging and adoption which to my mind are just different words for the same thing. And, sure,, merged broods can be very large--I saw one of 19 a few days ago containing goslings of 3 different sizes--but I've also seen very small ones.

I infer from sb620's post that adoption means still just one pair of adult geese taking on other geese' offspring, whereas brood merging means a flock of more than one pair of adult geese all caring for their goslings -- a communal nursery if you wish.

fugl · May 30, 2013

howiewu said:
I infer from sb620's post that adoption means still just one pair of adult geese taking on other geese' offspring, whereas brood merging means a flock of more than one pair of adult geese all caring for their goslings -- a communal nursery if you wish.

This is getting confusing (and a little OT). The merged broods I've seen--including the very large ones like the one of 19 I referred to--are generally accompanied by just one pair of adults. At least that's how they usually end up after a transitional period when an extra adult or 2 (or 3) may or may not be present (it's hard to tell what's going on sometimes). Also, as mentioned in an earlier post and complicating the situation still further, "helpers" may be acquired along the way for longer or shorter periods. As also mentioned, the helpers in some instances are domestic Graylags or Swan Geese which in the case of "pure" broods (the only kind I've personally encountered so far) obviously can't be biologically related to any of their charges.

stevethehydra · May 30, 2013

Something no one else seems to have pointed out - the pale gosling here has not just a different coloured, but a noticeably smaller eye than the normal-coloured Canada gosling with it. That plus it seeming bulkier overall make me think it's a domestic (Greylag/Swan Goose/mixed) gosling that just happens to have ended up (either before or after hatching) in a same-sized brood of Canadas.

sb620 · May 31, 2013

howiewu said:
I infer from sb620's post that adoption means still just one pair of adult geese taking on other geese' offspring, whereas brood merging means a flock of more than one pair of adult geese all caring for their goslings -- a communal nursery if you wish.

That's what I meant. I'm no ornithologist, so certainly don't quote me, but I thought there was a distinction. When there are more than one pair of parents, it's called a crèche (I am a pretty good googler; see http://www.about.lovecanadageese.com/gang.html). I meant that these Canada geese parents may have picked up a stray and adopted him.

stevethehydra said:
Something no one else seems to have pointed out - the pale gosling here has not just a different coloured, but a noticeably smaller eye than the normal-coloured Canada gosling with it. That plus it seeming bulkier overall make me think it's a domestic (Greylag/Swan Goose/mixed) gosling that just happens to have ended up (either before or after hatching) in a same-sized brood of Canadas.

Yes, I noticed that, too, but I thought it was just b/c the Canada goslings have darker feathers. I went back down there today to check in, and there were no babies to be seen. Hopefully they'll be back, and I can see how it develops.

nartreb · May 31, 2013

The eye IS smaller in proportion to the head. So it's not just a pigment issue.
I can't say with any certainty that we've eliminated interbreeding, but it seems unlikely if none of the siblings has any intermediate features. So I'm favoring adoption in some form.

Canada gosling with pink bill and feet? Cambridge, MA (1 Viewer)

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