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BOP seen this morning NE.London....? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter KenM
- Start date
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
Honey Buzzard for me, long neck and tail
A
A
Simon Wates
Well-known member
My thoughts too....though zoomed in the head shape doesn't look too good but could be just the photo.
KenM
Well-known member
Are you sure?...narrow head, long relatively narrow pinched wings, and a tail that is too long for CB ....5 was the maximum number of images that I could upload in one go, am currently in the field, will post another image when I return.
Yes positive (that it's not a Honey Buzzard) cause everything is wrong from shape of wing/tail/head to plumage patterns.
But I will not be dogmatic about which species of Buteo it might be (don't know all of them, so ruling out any possible escape is not what I intend), only I see no reason why it isn't the most obvious candidate, Common Buzzard.
Peter
lou salomon
the birdonist
agree on common buzzard, could be a 2cy in which wings are bit narrower making tail appear longer.
fully agree
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
Jane Turner
Well-known member
Something odd about the photo and proportions. What's the Corvid?
ChrisKten
It's true, I quite like Pigeons
I'm glad someone posted that, as it's been bugging me, but I had nothing relevant to contribute on the buzzard species... so I kept quiet. But the first image looks stretched, both vertically and horizontally - I'm not sure if "rolling shutter" can cause this
KenM
Well-known member
It's interesting that there appears to be a ''unison'' in defaulting to CB, using vague arguments like wing pattern...really at that distance, with less than perfect images? No one can determine whether the wing pattern is right, or wrong, such is the quality of the images shown.
To attempt to ignore the overall shape of e.g the head, and the tail, and to suggest that this can be dismissed as a 2nd year bird by the ''narrowness'' of the wing, (it would have to be c30% wider! to conform to ''yer average'' CB tail to wing ratio) thus negating the ''impression'' that the tail is long, when all can see that the tail is ''actually'' long, I would suggest that the tail is (conservatively) 20% longer than CB, and like most birders I see them almost daily.
I need a more convincing argument in favour of CB, as at the moment I'm totally unconvinced of the latter.
Here are two images showing the body width equalling the tail length!
Having trawled the flight images of HB, the tail length equals the body length (as subject bird), unlike CB where the tail is at least 20% narrower than the body.
Cheers
To attempt to ignore the overall shape of e.g the head, and the tail, and to suggest that this can be dismissed as a 2nd year bird by the ''narrowness'' of the wing, (it would have to be c30% wider! to conform to ''yer average'' CB tail to wing ratio) thus negating the ''impression'' that the tail is long, when all can see that the tail is ''actually'' long, I would suggest that the tail is (conservatively) 20% longer than CB, and like most birders I see them almost daily.
I need a more convincing argument in favour of CB, as at the moment I'm totally unconvinced of the latter.
Here are two images showing the body width equalling the tail length!
Having trawled the flight images of HB, the tail length equals the body length (as subject bird), unlike CB where the tail is at least 20% narrower than the body.
Cheers
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Excellent photos, Tom. They show that typical buteo buteo jizz, which is seen also on Ken's photos.
The actual lenght of the tail is VERY hard to estimate. Due to the different look it gives in different flight modes and at different angels.
Remember vividly how I once tentatively identified a distant, approaching, migrant falcon in poor light (seemed all dark) as a Hobby due to its flight and general jizz.
Another "heavy dude" birder beside me claimed that it was a male Red-footed Falcon. When the bird was almost over our heads (close!) the light conditions changed, so that we could see that it was indeed an adult Hobby.
The other birder then indignantly exclaimed:
that's the most long-tailed Hobby I've ever seen!
Had this bird, at that very moment, suffered a fatal heart attack, and had fallen to the ground for measurements to be taken, my instincts suggested that I could have gone and bet the farm that the tail lenght didn't differ from the average......
Peter
The actual lenght of the tail is VERY hard to estimate. Due to the different look it gives in different flight modes and at different angels.
Remember vividly how I once tentatively identified a distant, approaching, migrant falcon in poor light (seemed all dark) as a Hobby due to its flight and general jizz.
Another "heavy dude" birder beside me claimed that it was a male Red-footed Falcon. When the bird was almost over our heads (close!) the light conditions changed, so that we could see that it was indeed an adult Hobby.
The other birder then indignantly exclaimed:
that's the most long-tailed Hobby I've ever seen!
Had this bird, at that very moment, suffered a fatal heart attack, and had fallen to the ground for measurements to be taken, my instincts suggested that I could have gone and bet the farm that the tail lenght didn't differ from the average......
Peter
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KenM
Well-known member
Apart from all the images being somewhat fore-shortened, they all conform to CB ratio i.e. tail clearly shorter than body length....clearly you're in agreement?
I do not compare tail length to body length as I am unable to even know what you mean. I'm comparing base of wing to length of tail from tail tip to wing (which is longer than tail itself but makes much more sense to me) and that's perfectly fitting a juvenile Common Buzzard. And I don't think a HB in active flight would ever show this spread tail, actually tail shape is very different in HB
KenM
Well-known member
Struggling to find out what's odd about the image? I probably encounter as many CB's, as I do Sprawk! and I don't often attempt to image them (unless they're particularly close and in good light). This bird through the bins (although further away...than preferred) looked long tailed, narrow headed, and with relatively long,narrow, wings, quite unlike CB.
Corvid is Carrion Crow.
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rosbifs
PutAin STOP
It does depend where you measure from. Assuming that the tail on your bird doesn't start where the wing ends your buzzard, using the first picture, looks to have a very short tail...
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