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Leica eye relief ..... or lack of it!! (1 Viewer)

I am very happy to be living on a different planet. There is not much future for those on the Earth.

I have needed glasses for 30 years, but not when using binoculars.
It is not inevitable that old eyes need glasses when using binoculars.

It would be enough to have a few good EWA binoculars for non eyeglass wearers.
As it is there is a vast choice, but no EWA binoculars.

Why should other family members be able to use my binoculars?
 
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Where do you place the eyecups when you are looking through the binocular?

Do you push them back into your eye sockets?

When I do that I get blackouts.

I have to brace the eyecups up against my brow ridge on my eyebrows or just under them to get the eye relief I need and keep the blackouts away. Cited eye relief is mostly useless for me although I seem find binoculars with cited long eye relief easier to use. I can use binoculars with 13mm ER all the way up to 20mm in the way I described it above.

Bob

Perfect explanation. That's what I've always done when not using eye glasses. Very few binoculars are a perfect fit. My "eye relief" can actually change from time to time. By slightly moving in/out with eyecup resting on brow ridge solves the problem. It's also practically instinctive.

Hermann

You are surely teasing us as I am sure you know the answer to this. You are really suggesting that each model should be offered in a Spectacle Version and a Non-Spectacled Version, and possibly you might want these both to be offered in a short-distance close-focus and 'normal-distance close-focus' as well.

That would increase the stock (inventory) costs enormously and is enough for any company accountant to say 'you must be joking'. And dealers wouldn't like their stock committment to a brand to be increased by 4xtimes especially when it comes to model upgrade time and they have to put sell-out price stickers on 4 times as many units of old stock.

In more practical terms this would also mean spectacle wearers and non-spectacle wearers in the same family would not be able to share the use of one pair of bins and would have to buy two pairs. It would also mean that folks that bought a pair of non-spectacle binos in their 20's would have to buy a new pair in their 40's as their eyesight changed instead of just changing the position of the eyecups.

Just saying.......

Lee

GREAT points!
 
Just read an old thread.
Why wear glasses when using bins?
3rd April 2006.

It educated me more into understanding birdwatchers problems using glasses.

I suppose that my eyes, at least one of them, is good enough to see birds well enough without glasses to go straight to using a binocular.

I was going to ask what percentage of observers need glasses with binoculars, but it isn't that simple.
Because people don't like continually taking specs off and back on.

I found also via Sky an Telescope, Richard Buchroeder's formula, which I hope I can mention.
Eyeglasses can be removed if astigmatism cylinder correction in diopters D for an exit pupil in millimetres is 1/square root D or smaller. Larger gives more than 1/4 wave of aberration.
But I don't think binoculars meet these standards, as I can use larger exit pupils than the formula suggests.
 
I have to brace the eyecups up against my brow ridge on my eyebrows or just under them to get the eye relief I need and keep the blackouts away. Cited eye relief is mostly useless for me although I seem find binoculars with cited long eye relief easier to use. I can use binoculars with 13mm ER all the way up to 20mm in the way I described it above.

This is exactly what I do. The contact point for me is tantamount to a firm hinge which I can vary (with associated eye swivelling) depending on eye relief.

...I just felt now, and there appears to be the sharper brow bone itself, and then a mound/strip of brow muscle just above this (Under the skin of the eye brows). I lock/hinge the top of rigid eyepieces into the small nook between the two and adjust the angle of the binocular as necessary. Swivelling my eyes up or down slightly keeps everything sweetly on axis.
 
One comment on the Swarovski 8x32: Make sure you check whether you can live with the veiling glare of the Swaros. I personally find it unacceptable. Many others are more than happy with their 8x32s.

Hermann

I'm with you on this one Hermann, unfortunately I had to sell my EL8x32sv because I just could not live with the severe veiling glare.
I can only speak for myself, but I found it to be TOO much and totally unacceptable for a top tier bin. (it had been back to Absam 3 times, apparently it met factory specs.) Even our cheap Zeiss Terra "killed" the EL regarding glare resistance.
I've encountered too many occasions that I couldn't see sh!t in difficult light, because the image got very milky......

And yes again, very unfortunate, because for the rest I consider this bino to be the very best in the 8x32 class speaking of image quality.

My EL10x50 O.T.O.H. is a keeper, and doesn't suffer from glare issues.
 
I agree viewing comfort is a big problem in the Ultravid 8x32 making it a luxury product for bright days only. Optimized for small size with overaggressive baffling (truncated exit pupils) for good flare suppression. Very very sharp. Swarovision feels comfortable but flares like hell. If you go for an EDG, why not go for the 8x42, it´s only insignificantly heavier IMO and that would be an allrounder.

More insights on the FL?
 
Interesting...

The 8x32 Leica UVHD+ is just about the top of my list for next binocular to try. I'm going this direction because I've found that I am very fond of the Maven B3 (size) but would prefer it with top notch optics. Think the Leica 8x32 is as close as I'll get. (Not a fan of the Swaro Companion).

I've handled an ?x32 Leica UV (don't recall if it was 8x or 10x but think it was 10x) some time ago. I owned the 10x32 EL WB at the time and thought the Leica to easily be every bit as good if not a bit better... however it was a few hundred dollars more at the time which left me in the position of "for the cost, why would anyone pass over the EL wb for the UV???

Unfortunately, nobody here carries the little Leica so it will be dropping almost $2k on glass sight unseen. Its worked out on an EDG and on a Leica UVHD+, but on numerous other occasions it hasn't so I'm a little leery.

Had heard nothing but the highest praise for the Swaro, so I bought one. I experienced rolling ball with the 8x32 EL SV so I had to let it go. I too experienced what I thought was a bit higher level of flare for this price class of instrument... and as always, I find the Swaro focusers lacking in a refined feel for a $2k plus instrument... same for the focusers on the Leica I've handled with the exception of one which was exceptional, unfortunately not the one I own.

My .02,

CG
 
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cycleguy, post 27,
If you start looking for a very good 8x32 next to the Leica Ultravid HD-plus, you should also look at and through the Meopta Meostar B1 8x32: very similar in performance to the Leica and some points even a little better but 1000 euros cheaper.
Gijs van Ginkel
 
cycleguy, post 27,
If you start looking for a very good 8x32 next to the Leica Ultravid HD-plus, you should also look at and through the Meopta Meostar B1 8x32: very similar in performance to the Leica and some points even a little better but 1000 euros cheaper.
Gijs van Ginkel

I absolutely agree.

Lee
 
I agree viewing comfort is a big problem in the Ultravid 8x32 making it a luxury product for bright days only. Optimized for small size with overaggressive baffling (truncated exit pupils) for good flare suppression.
More insights on the FL?

Just wondering, are you suggesting that the 'truncated exit pupils' are the only apparent reason for the viewing discomfort in the Ultravid 8x32?
What are your thoughts on the Noctivid in this regard?

When I inspect the Noctivid, they are appear to have heavier baffling and fewer false pupils than even the 8x32 Ultravid. Held up to light, the eyepiece is pitch black and the exit pupils are lovely and round. It almost appears as though Leica have inserted a pitch black disk somewhere into the eyepiece with an exit pupil aperture in the centre. I see no downside in viewing whatsoever. Perhaps this is the benefit of a fresh design slate....Leica are fixing issues upstream.
Here's hoping for an 8x32 Noctivid.
 
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Hi Gijs,

By the way, I have the Meopta Meostar B 8x32. And not from the last versions. I compared, briefly, having read your evaluation on both, while in London past june, with a UVHD+ 8x32. I must say I liked a lot the Leica!! The colours are a little more, well, "natural", in the Leica. But not much, and on all other, I prefer my Meopta, being, as you said, more than U$ 1000 cheaper!! Great little binocular this M.M. 832!
 
I prefer my Meopta, being, as you said, more than U$ 1000 cheaper!! Great little binocular this M.M. 832!

There's only one real problem with the Meoptas: The diopter adjustment range is only +/- 3 diopters.

And that's a killer as far as I'm concerned.

Hermann
 
There's only one real problem with the Meoptas: The diopter adjustment range is only +/- 3 diopters.

And that's a killer as far as I'm concerned.

Hermann

Mmmmm, I'm curious why you need so much diopter adjustment range, since one might infer from your previous posts that you don't use eyeglasses? Or, do you take your glasses off when using binoculars? If that's the case, I would guess that you're myopic?

In my case, ER < 17.5 is a deal breaker, but my eyeglasses eliminate the need for any diopter adjustment.

Ed
 
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Mmmmm, I'm curious why you need so much diopter adjustment range, since one might infer from your previous posts that you don't use eyeglasses? Or, do you take your glasses off when using binoculars? If that's the case, I would guess that you're myopic?

My eyes are quite different. I've got normal vision in one eye, and I'm at about -4 diopters in the other. It's actually a bit more complicated than that as there's also some astigmatism in the weak eye, so even with a wide enough diopter adjustment range I don't get a really sharp image on the weak eye, but I can live with the "semi-sharp" image I get.

The difference between my eyes is such that I can't use glasses because my brain can't cope with the differently sized images. (Anything about 2-3 diopters difference is usually considered "difficult" over here.) So I normally use a single contact lens. That works quite nicely no problem.

However, on some days I can't wear the contact lens for longer periods of time like a full day, especially in dry and hot climates or in (very) windy weather. No problems as long as I don't use binoculars, I simply "switch off" the weak eye. Doesn't work when I use binoculars, so that's when I need a wider diopter adjustment range.

Hermann
 
For those who have eyecup issues (blackouts when eyecups are fully extended), Leica is aware of the problem. At least with the Noctivids, you can contact them and get longer eyecups. These eyecups will not be short enough for eyeglass wearers who need lots of eye relief.
 
Leica still have eyecup issues on their top end bins. This is a complete joke, something they should be embarrassed about.
 
Leica still have eyecup issues on their top end bins. This is a complete joke, something they should be embarrassed about.
None of the brands have eyecups suitable for all users. For example, Nikon uses twist-up eyecups that have a big jump to the first step, ensuring I never have quite the right length when wearing glasses (the fully retracted position gives me blackouts from excessive eye relief; the first click slightly crops the field of view).
 
None of the brands have eyecups suitable for all users. For example, Nikon uses twist-up eyecups that have a big jump to the first step, ensuring I never have quite the right length when wearing glasses (the fully retracted position gives me blackouts from excessive eye relief; the first click slightly crops the field of view).

This is true. I suppose I'm still lucky in that I only need glasses for reading. Must be a bit of a bind.

I really made the point because I heard a lot of people without glasses had issues with Leica bins and the eyecups which I kind of doubted until I tried them myself. Even the dealer agreed with me that quite a few people have the same issue and just can't get a decent view.

Thankfully Zeiss and Swaro have a nice wide, easy view with fully extended eyecups, no vignetting and full view.

I had to exclude Leica from my selection process because of this.
 
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