Big fan of Porro prism . (1 Viewer)

albatrosviajero · Oct 28, 2016

Hello,
I have the opportunity to buy one of the models Habicht classic Porro prism., The 8x30 or 10x40.
for all round binocular, handy, light and good image (good contrast and definition) which of the two models work better?
I'm a big fan of binoculars Porro prism !!
What used to take for birding, terrestrial views, casual astronomy, there is a great difference between the two Habicht ??
Thanks for your advice and insights !!
regards
Al.

Hermann · Oct 28, 2016

Do a search for the Habicht binoculars here. I posted a review of the 7x42 some time ago, and there's plenty of stuff here on the 8x30 and the 10x40. Be aware though that they all have their advantages and disadvantages (8x30 has problems with veiling glare, the 10x40 also, but to a lesser extent, the 7x42 is optically the best of the lot, but has a small field of view).

Make also sure you know how old the Habicht is. Older versions have a pretty yellow image. The latest versions are pretty incredible. You won't find any binocular at any price that is as bright and contrasty as a recent 7x42. It even beats the Zeiss HT. And the leatherette versions are *very* light - the 7x42 weighs only about 620gr.

Hermann

gunut · Oct 28, 2016

There is a member here that swore by the Habicht..in fact was a one man promotion for them...Now he swears at them because of the glare experienced on a recent outing....I still think they are the best porro going....but a little expensive ....

Johann Gambolputty · Oct 28, 2016

If astronomy indeed should be part of the application area I would consider the 10x40 over the 8x30. But be aware that the 10x magnification requires more stable grip with your hands.

denco@comcast.n · Oct 28, 2016

albatrosviajero said:
Hello,
I have the opportunity to buy one of the models Habicht classic Porro prism., The 8x30 or 10x40.
for all round binocular, handy, light and good image (good contrast and definition) which of the two models work better?
I'm a big fan of binoculars Porro prism !!
What used to take for birding, terrestrial views, casual astronomy, there is a great difference between the two Habicht ??
Thanks for your advice and insights !!
regards
Al.

I liked the Habicht 8x30 W until I recently tried to use one to observe mountain goats from the bottom of a steep canyon. The goats were on rocky peaks above me and there was plenty of sunshine. The veiling glare was so bad from the Habicht's it flooded the FOV and I couldn't even see the goats. Needless to say I sold the Habicht's the next day. To say the Habicht's exhibit some veiling glare is an UNDERSTATEMENT! I would NEVER buy a Habicht again. Just my opinion. Try them at your own risk.:eek!: If you want a porro get a Nikon 8x30 EII or a Nikon 8x32 SE. Please!

PHA · Oct 29, 2016

Hello Albatrosv.

I am a long time user of Habichts. I have had 7 (yes, seven) of them. One at a time 5 10x40 plus 2 8x30 along the last two 10x. First, about the 8x30: both, bought trhought ebay, were the old yellow tinted view. So, having a Meopta Meostar B1 8x32, I sold them. Both exceptional in resolution with some veiling glare problems, that "milky" veiling. I could have lived perfectly with them but I don't like that yellow view for my use of 8x. I see, briefly, a new one and I like it VERY much!! Perfect brilliant and natural colour view, with that exceptional resolution. Couldn't test for glare...
A friend still have a 7x42. Also an old yellow view one. But I dont like that narrow field of view in a 7x!!!
Now, the 10x40. I like this Habicht ! Of all ages! To do it short, the one I have, is of the last version and GA, rubber coated. Having had the non GA, to me it is a must for a Habicht!!!! Must be rubber coated. That few more grams add A LOT of protection. Period. And this "rubber" is of a type I didn't see in any other binocular. It belongs to a military grade instrument. Great! All Habicht I have had are built like a tank!! Can assure you.
This 10x40 Habicht model, specially this last and newer one, don't have the veiling glare problem I saw in the 8x30. In fact, has the same, or even a little less of that milky veil, looking with the sun at a low angle in front, than the Zeiss HT 10x42 I also have. And is almost as good, in all, optically as the HT....with the added steroscopic view of a Porro.

Good luck!

PHA

Bencw · Oct 29, 2016

I have both the 8x30 Habiicht and 7x42BA, I never use 10x hand held myself, so can't comment on it. As mentioned, the 7x42 has a narrow FOV, but it is very nice to use, no other issues at all. The 8x30 Habicht is very good, but I agree with Denco, the Nikon E11 is the best 8x30 porro, I have that as well and it outperforms the Habicht, better FOV and more comfortable to use. I dont think either 8x30s are really the best for Astronomy though.

albatrosviajero · Oct 29, 2016

Well, thanks for the opinions ...
First I am surprised by the statement that "the Nikon 8x30 EII is better than Habicht" always had believed (read) the Habicht model was superior to Nikon EII .., really this is so ??
Of course, I personally would like an updated model, not the old with yellow tint in the image, I imagine it will be better in many ways the new models.
The issue of veiling glare Problems with the Habicht, maybe I'm wrong, but the few binoculars, I have used, all, all suffered this problem, when the sun was in front and at certain angle, the Canon 10x30,12x36 and the 18x50 IS models among others ...
Is there any binocular that does not suffer this problem in this particular situation ?? and the moon off the field., .all !! and with it inside, many with veiling flare, milky image, even with bino Miyauchi.
Indeed, I imagine that between 8x30 and 10x40, for astronomy observations, 10x40 always be better, but this would be for "casual" astronomy, intensive not ..
Currently I have and frequently use the Canon 12x36 for birding, very good, with milky veil in certain situations, I can live with this, but weighs much for a whole day around his neck ..., I look for something lighter and more comfortable,
I used some 10x50 with a very large field, .. but I think it gives a very bad image, with many aberrations,
Some time ago I could use some Papilio Pentaz 6.5x 21mm, also some 8,5x21, but not like a focuser too soft, low light, 'for butterflies and insect and very casual birding, not for astro ..
I'm a big fan of Porro prism, whole life I've used, I love ...
I've heard good things about both Habitch and Nikon EII, 8x30 and 10x40 or 10x35 E II model too, but I'm looking for the best joint, and I thought the model Habicht was the best ..
Again Thanks!
Al-

Gijs van Ginkel · Oct 29, 2016

Albatrosviajero, post 8,
I certainly do not agree with the statement that the Nikon 8X30 EII is better than the new Habicht 8x30.
The optical quality of the Habicht is for my eyes much brighter and with a perfect color reproduction and very sharp image quality. The EII has a larger FOV, but that is for me hardly a problem, the FOV of the Habicht is sufficient for me.
Since we have no mountain goats I can not check the glare described by Dennis, but over water surfaces it can be checked fairly well and I never have problems with it. The handling comfort of the Nikon EII is for my hands also not pleasant: a very short and rather thick body and the risk that my hands come in front of the objective lenses darkening the image. The focussing of the Nikon is more smooth than that of the Habicht and if you wear spectacles you have to find out which one suits you best. Anyhow: I never use the EII for the reasons described and moreover it is not waterproof which is a big disadvantage in a country like ours, which is often rather wet, whereas the Habicht is perfectly waterproof. So there are different opinions possible.
Gijs van Ginkel

Binastro · Oct 29, 2016

Hi Gijs,
Maybe you have no mountain goats because you have no mountains.

But, the highest ground is 1.053ft. So if a mountain is above 1.000ft, you may find a mountain goat in the south of your country.

I'll carry on watching the firework display with the Greenkat (Leitz supposedly) 8.5x50.

A pity I don't have a modern Habicht, although I have a worn out old 10x40.

All the best.

Gijs van Ginkel · Oct 30, 2016

Binastro, post 10,
I spent many weeks in the southern hills of our country (yes, no mountains, but such beautiful charming hills): plenty of goats and sheep, but they showed up as a crisp sharp image of themselves in the Habicht and less bright in the EII and that is a pity, since they are such charming beautiful animals especially in spring with the young babies playing around. I can not wait to go there again, but first we have to face a strong winter with a lot of ice skating and excellent opportunities to check glare when looking at the light explosion of the sun when flashing over the mirror flat ice floors.
Gijs van Ginkel

jring · Oct 30, 2016

Hi,

the Habichts are great binoculars in having exemplary resolution on axis (maybe even the best of their class) and probably the best transmission measurement results. Also they're waterproof, which is unusual for CF porro bins.

On the minus side there's some glare and reflection problems, very low eye relief (don't try these if you want or have to use glasses with binoculars), only an average field of view with an average sweet spot and a quite stiff focuser (remember waterproofed?).

The main selling point of the E2 series is their huge field of view with a 70% or so sweet spot, which is quite addictive for me (I have the 8x30).

On the minus side there's missing waterproofing and ER where it is only slightly better than the Habicht.

The SE series have an average field of view but due to what may be the best field flattening on the market it's sharp to the edge. ER and false light control are good plus the 10x40 model is quite light and has great ergonomics for me.
The only fault is the missing waterproofing and nowadays they're hard to get.

Also due to the large product range from very cheap to very good, Nikon bins are the perfect understatement and don't cry nick me, I'm expensive like the ones with blue square, red point or silver Habicht.

Joachim

albatrosviajero · Oct 30, 2016

Once time ago I had a Nikon 10x42 SE, the best porro prism image for me... BUT the worst black out of TVE History..for me and my eyes.. Aggggg!!
Regards.
Al

PHA · Oct 30, 2016

Hi albatrosv.

Agree with Gijs. To me, the Habicht is far ahead of the Nikon EII. A few years ago, I compared, side by side, a Nikon SE 10x42 vs. my Habicht 10x40 WGA. At different times and lights during a day. Again, at least THIS Habicht, was clearly superior, optically, than THAT Nikon. Clearly! Plus the added advantage of the construction and waterproof of the Habicht. To me, the Nikon SE are not contenders for the Habicht. In any way.
At a risk to be reiterative, to me, THE Porros to have today are the Habichts. No other Porro binoculars have ALL the virtues in one than that Swarovskis.

Good luck!

PHA

Pileatus · Oct 30, 2016

I just had my 8X32 SE out for a morning walk. The view is so impressive it's hard to explain to anyone that is not an owner/user. No other bin conveys the intimacy I experience with the SE. As birding bins go, the Habichts are simply not on the same level as the 8X32 SE. A slow focus and shallow eye relief are enough to put the issue to rest; the Habicht glare problems do them in.

There aren't many high-end porros in the field any longer but among those I do see are: Swifts and E/SE's. I've never seen a 30mm Swaro porro in use but I have run into two or three 42mm Habichts.

PS
Years ago I compared the 8X30 Habicht to my 8X32 SE and the Habicht just wasn't useful to me as a birding bin. On a tripod, in a test environment the Habicht may exhibit a few superior characteristics but as a birding bin the 8X32 SE is definitely superior.

PPS
As much as people love them I never cared for the 10X42 or 12X50 SE's. The 8X32, however, is pure magic.

Sancho · Oct 30, 2016

Agree with Pileatus. I've had Swaro Habicht 8x30, currently have Nikon EII and SE in 8x. I also agree with Dennis- the reason I sold both units of Habicht I tried was the veiling glare. I didn't find it looking at goats, but looking at a Pied Flycatcher on a very overcast day....I couldn't even see the tree, just a milky white veil like a thick lace curtain. Luckily in my bag I also had my Nikon SE, and looking through it, could almost see into the Flycatcher's soul

.
I tried to reproduce the glare a few more times with the Habicht...it was all too easy, looking anywhere towards a faint light source on an overcast day. Henry Link explained in a post some years ago why it happens. In any case, it doesn't happen with my SE, ever.

Binastro · Oct 30, 2016

It seems that people are even more variable than binoculars.

This is, I think, a good thing.

Sancho · Oct 30, 2016

Binastro said:
It seems that people are even more variable than binoculars.

This is, I think, a good thing.

:-OWell it's a good thing as long as they're all civil about it!

If I remember correctly from Henry's explanation, it might be that my pupils dilated too much in the dim light, to a larger diameter than the exit pupil. Don't quote me on that, I'm probably wrong.

henry link · Oct 30, 2016

I'm taking the lazy route and posting a link to one of my posts from another thread on this subject.

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3446960&postcount=8

I'll just add a photo made through the eyepiece of my new 8x30 Habicht, which illustrates where the glare problem originates.

To begin with there is a poorly baffled objective cell (the small bright crescent at the bottom edge of the exit pupil in the photo). The situation is made worse at certain angles by an undersized prism that intrudes into the exit pupil. Sancho is right about pupil dilation in low light making the glare appear worse. If the eye is open much wider than the exit pupil the internal reflections at the edge of the exit pupil will inescapably enter the eye.

Sancho · Oct 30, 2016

henry link said:
I'm taking the lazy route and posting a link to one of my posts from another thread on this subject.

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3446960&postcount=8

I'll just add a photo made through the eyepiece of my new 8x30 Habicht, which illustrates where the glare problem originates.

To begin with there is a poorly baffled objective cell (the small bright crescent at the bottom edge of the exit pupil in the photo). The situation is made worse at certain angles by an undersized prism that intrudes into the exit pupil. Sancho is right about pupil dilation in low light making the glare appear worse. If the eye is open much wider than the exit pupil the internal reflections at the edge of the exit pupil will inescapably enter the eye.

Thanks Henry!

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