Sparrows and moths (1 Viewer)

I guess we all know that House Sparrows have declined a lot recently, but in my street there is still a good population.

In recent years, I have taken up moth trapping, and I have found that I am inadvertently feeding the sparrows through the summer. From late June to the end of August, I can have up to 200 moths in the trap each morning, to say nothing of the moths which sit on the walls and in the plants.

It only seems to be a problem in the breeding season, but when I go out in the morning, sparrows fly up in all directions, and there is not a moth to be seen on the walls (outside the breeding season there are lots of moths on the walls). The sparrows then sit on the top of the walls and watch me empty the trap. The moths sit on egg cartons that are in the trap, and I used to just knock the moths off, into next doors bushes. However, the birds then fly straight over and pick off the moths. So now I have to put the moths in a box, and walk across to the park opposite the house to put them in bushes there, but the sparrows still follow me!

In recent mornings, a bird has actually been going in the trap itself, before I get up. It's going light at 4:00am these days, so the birds have a good 2 - 3 hours to get stuck in before I get down, and I've opened the trap to find wings and partly eaten moths scattered all around, but no sign of the culprit. I'm having to come up with ever more ingenious ways of beating the birds, such as sticking pictures of tiger faces on the side of the trap, and using varieties of mesh across the trap, but it only works for a short while,

This might seem quite humorous, but it has a serious side. I'm worried that I'm effecting local moth populations by attracting them to a trap in a vulnerable position. I can only guess at the number of moths eaten, but it could easily be in the range of 100 - 200 per night at the height of the season, if we include those on the walls etc. However, moth traps seem fairly inefficient, and I guess that I'm not catching anymore than about 10 - 20% of the moths which fly around my garden in a night, and taking my street as a whole, the number of moths I catch is probably insignificant in comparison to the total flying, so maybe it's not as bad as it seems.

Of course the other side of the coin is that I have a healthy and thriving House Sparrow population. I'm not sure whether I'm partly responsible for this or not, but at times like this I don't know whether to laugh or cry!

Colin

Sounds like you should be getting a medal from the RSPB, Colin
Did you do any better this summer, or are you still beefing up the local Passer domesticus population?

ColinD said:

I can only guess at the number of moths eaten, but it could easily be in the range of 100 - 200 per night at the height of the season, if we include those on the walls etc. However, moth traps seem fairly inefficient, and I guess that I'm not catching anymore than about 10 - 20% of the moths which fly around my garden in a night, and taking my street as a whole, the number of moths I catch is probably insignificant in comparison to the total flying, so maybe it's not as bad as it seems.

Of course the other side of the coin is that I have a healthy and thriving House Sparrow population. I'm not sure whether I'm partly responsible for this or not, but at times like this I don't know whether to laugh or cry!

Colin

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Colin,
you could put your moth trap on a timer, set to go off an hour before dawn, that way many of the moths around your trap may fly off before the Sparrows get to them. The alternative is to get up and retreive your trap before the Sparrows get up.

Harry

Surreybirder said:

Sounds like you should be getting a medal from the RSPB, Colin
Did you do any better this summer, or are you still beefing up the local Passer domesticus population?

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The moth season has really only just started in the past week or so. I now get about 50 moths in the trap, but at the beginning of the month it was little more than 10 moths. Also, predation by birds usually only starts around about now, so it's too early to say for this year.

Colin

ColinD said:

The moth season has really only just started in the past week or so.
Colin

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Psssssst Colin,
Don't tell everyone, but you can catch moths almost every night of the year.
You will miss an awful lot by just trapping in mid Summer.

Harry.

i suppose we all have different views on this. My wife isn't happy that I'm trapping moths in the first place. They should be allowed to go about their business without interfernce. Any I do trap, but I've had 3 bird incidences in 2 years. One was my own hens, when they found where I emptied my trap of 100s of moths. Another was when a Wren (presumably) got in because a flap was left open a little. And then couple weeks back I was not up early enough and something was in and out.

These are all gut wrenching for me.

I get up up early to close up the traps and pick up any moths I can find outside the trap. and then the trap is kept in a shaded place for day. I do leave it slightly open to ollow the restless moths escape during day. I'm sure some of these will be taken by passing birds. I do sometimes empty them in the long grass in neighbouring field. I'd say spiders will get some of these.

My view on this, is that if one is trapping in first place, then I feel one is obligated to do as much as possible to minimise casualties. For me the ONLY way to do this is to be up before the birds are out. Personally I don't think that turning off the trap before dawn is a good option as either, the morning has got cold by this time and the moths don't stir (and the birds get them) or you have a lot of moths in trap flapping about wearing each other out.

Quite often the best moths are the ones not in the trap.

Does the different views on this show up the real birders amongst us?

I suppose that no matter how careful you are when trapping moths, there are always going to be casualties, whether you like it or not.

As many of you will have observed Bats are frequent attenders overhead when light trapping and during any night several dozen moths may be consumed. Similarly birds will also take advantage of having an good breakfast off specimens that have alighted in the area of the trap, or even from inside it at times.

Mice, frogs, hedgehogs and other wild animals as well as domestic cats may take an easy meal as well. Sugaring and wine ropes will also attract moth predators.

No matter how careful you are there will always be some casualties, yet one of the biggest cause of moth death is the motor vehicle. Literally thousands of moths are killed every night by motorists, more often than not, quite unknowingly. I dare say that more moths are killed by traffic in one night than are killed in a year by those who collect moths either as a hobby or for serious scientific purposes.

It's all a matter of perspective really.

Harry

harry eales said:

As many of you will have observed Bats are frequent attenders overhead when light trapping and during any night several dozen moths may be consumed.

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Although the bats would presumably catch quite a few moths anyway during the night--and some bats are seriously endangered themselves?

Surreybirder said:

Although the bats would presumably catch quite a few moths anyway during the night--and some bats are seriously endangered themselves?

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I was thinking about the bats in my previous reply, but forgot to mention it. I'm not really sure on my view of this. Have ceratinly seen many bats over my traps, and looked at the evading tatics of the moths. My conscience seems happy enough with the bats, but not with the birds. Perhaps this is inconsistant and contradictory, but thats the way it is with me.