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Isabelline Wheatear (1 Viewer)

Hi Jane

despite having seem loads of em in Asia they are still one of the hardest birds for me to id

I can only presume it has been seen very well in the field and is indeed an Issy

Tim
 
It was trapped and ringed, I believe, so shouldn't be any doubt that an Issy was present.

Dare I invoke the two bird theory?!
 
Have to say I think it looks hellishly like a Northern Wheatear in those second two pics. I'd never have picked this out.

I can just about convince myself it looks long-billed, but what happened to the face pattern?
 
Judging by the odd bill shape (and that all three are ringed on the same leg) I'd guess they're all of the same bird.

Might some of the apparent differences be down to the exposures/lens quality?

Leg length and alula look ok but there's something about the facial pattern (could this be affected by whatever is causing the strange 'growth' on the bill) that doesn't look right?

I'm not going much further than that - colours and me don't go well together ;), not seen enough of these to be confident about them.

Andy.
 
Was similarly confused but it is the same bird as the chap who took them is an birding associate.
I think, as Andrew says, its down to equip etc, but similarly as Tim says, they are not always as different as percieved esp when looking at single photos.
 
i always felt the amount of black in tail is a consistent feature, not visible in these pics. if people had it in hand this should have been the giveaway.
while in the first pic it looks rather "issyish" due to its upright posture (well, it's alert in there), in pics 2 and 3 indeed it looks rather like northern w.; strange bird, juv. i guess.
 
The Norwegian bird is a good example on how difficult it is at times, both from photos and in the field to identify IW/NW. The one thing that bothers me about the subject bird, is the long primary projection, which seems to go past the undertail coverts in Janes third link. Usually IW has a shorter p-projection. It´s interesting to notice the impression one gets in the 1st link of a "IW uniform coloured wing" compared to the more NW impression in the two others. On the Norwegian bird, the supercilium is white behind the eye, hardly a good sign fot IW, but in the above bird there is no white at all, just a faint behind the eye in third link. Like the NWN bird, the lesser coverts doesn´t look that blackish as it usually does in NW. LC in IW are usually medium brown, lesser contrast to the rest of the wing and upperparts.
It is of course very difficult to judge from these images (fun though) and to consider variation, which exist, I wouldn´t bet on any of them, though there is quite a pro- NW
feel to it.
http://www.orientalbirdimages.org/b...1&Bird_Image_ID=10513&Bird_Family_ID=205&p=24
JanJ
 
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The first pic looks like a classic Isabelline, while I'd leave the second two as indeterminate - even if they're both much more Isabelline-like than the Norwegian wheatear.

But I'd certainly feel my pulse rising if I was fortunate enough to stumble across a bird looking like this! In the second and third pictures there are several pro-Isabelline features even if as Jane and Jan say there's a nagging Northern feel to the bird. The flight feathers are dark and fresh - it's presumably a first-winter - but the coverts are much lighter and Isabelline-like. Bill looks quite stout and Izzy-like to me.

In my experience, autumn Isabellines, especially juveniles, are better marked and more contrasting and therefore Northern-like than spring birds. Yet some individuals, presumably females, can more or less lack the black loral stripe and supercilium. Indeed we had a similar looking bird in southern Sweden a couple of autumns ago. It would help to see the tail pattern, but as the Norwegian wheatear showed, this feature varies too and occasional Northerns can show an Isabelline-like tail. I saw one myself on Heligoland a few years back.

If they are indeed the same bird it just goes to show how lighting and angle can alter the impression of a bird!

Rgds

Greg
 
I'f this wasn't a definitate Issy and was being posted as a "what is this bird" question I'm certain that I would be putting my mortgage on it being a Northern.....

What really puzzles me is how classic it looks in the first pic and how unclassic in the second two!

Will go and see if there are any more pics of the bird!

Edit: here you go - it seems that it depends on which side you view the bird from whether it looks ok!
 

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Jane Turner said:
Edit: here you go - it seems that it depends on which side you view the bird from whether it looks ok!
Click to expand...

Jane, to my eye both these new images look good for Isabelline. Coverts concolourous with the mantle and very little black showing through along with black and isolated black alula against an otherwise sandy wing. Strong, spiky bill and in the right hand pic a distinct loral stripe and whitish supercilium in front of the eye. But I do agree that nos 2 and 3 in the first batch had a Northern feel to them! Just goes to show how tricky this species pair can be.

Rgds

Greg
 
The pix are good example of jizz v tertial fringe schools of Id. The impressionistic first shot highlights classic Issy features - black alula, stance, bill structure - while the second, more detailed pictures, create confusion because of amount of feather detail, particularly as the bird is a 1st year with more complex feather structuring (fresh, unworn fringes etc). It just highlights how we learn birds in field guides rather than in field.
 
I've always had no trouble with this pair in the field.. (always a few indeterminates ones) but jizz-wise they are ever so different...)

This bird has thrown up fresh doubts for me!
 
Jane Turner said:
I've always had no trouble with this pair in the field.. (always a few indeterminates ones) but jizz-wise they are ever so different...)

This bird has thrown up fresh doubts for me!
Click to expand...

my thoughts exactly. when you see them around their breeding grounds in suslik steppe they really look and behave differently than adjacent northerns. but see 1st winters and as single migrating/vagrant birds - this can be a tough call.
 
Perhaps I should have stressed that the best way to learn a bird is in the field - not a field guide.

S
 
had a look at home on my decent screen and it looks a lot better, covs actually seem ok and aren't half as dark-centred as i first thought

still
i've seen hundreds and side by side with other wheatear species incl. Northern and they are still one of the hardest birds to id for me. Very few of them actually seem to be 'classic'.

Incidentally, I remember one very tricky bird found by Johnny Mac. in the early 90s. The id was disputed for ages.... as was one on Scilly in 90s that i saw and another on Blakeney Point found by a rarities comm. member but seen by many folks whose opinions i rate very highly and thought to be a Northern (still is too but it was accepted, several Norfolk birders don't 'count' it though...

Tim
 
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