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A challenging raptor ID? (1 Viewer)

MSA

MSA

I may be relaxed but I'm not drunk....
Sifting through my Israel pics from this March for a winter CHOG meeting, found this pic of a distant raptor. No scope, and couldn't get to grips with ID through bins, so I took a record shot with the 400mm. Second pic is cropped version. I believe the accompanying raptor in pic 1 is a Steppe Buzzard, though maybe a Black Kite (didn't keep a note - but doubt it's of much use as the birds could have been quite a way apart). Opinions and reasons would be appreciated, as I don't think it's as straightforward as it may appear at first glance...
 

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Could the bigger bird in picture 1 be a Honey Buzzard? The tail bars are widely spaced, the outer tip of the outermost tail feathers is rounded, and the head projects more than I expect based on Steppe Buzzard's close North American relative Red-tailed Hawk. Mind you, I've never seen one, I'm going by the Collins guide.
 
Hi Mark.

One of the two 'Honey Buzzards' and clear six fingers, broad wings, small looking head, broad and short looking tail, lack of dark carpal patch, extensive barring to outer hand and tail barring indicates a female/immature Oriental Honey Buzzard. Six fingers is sometimes show in Honey Buzzard as well, but together with the other characters strong indication of OHB - from these images.

JanJ
 
JANJ said:
..meaning?

JanJ
Click to expand...

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think HB passage starts in Israel until well into April, with OHB at tail end of month (not that this by any means rules out OHB!). I can see what you mean about ID features, but OHB was not even on my list of contenders, mainly because of the date - I'll be more than happy if that is what it turns out to be, though!
 
Mark,

It is early for both HB and OHB I know - but the fact that it looks like one of them still stands - perhaps the early date is more likely for OHB? I still favour OHB but maybe someone else will correct me on that.

JanJ

JanJ
 
I agree with Jan...this bird is clealry an Oriental honey buzzard! Look at the image I tried to post (I hope it works!).

ciao
Michele
 

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Tail pattern is fairly easy to see in the original.

It's a 'honey buzzard' and as Jan has ponted out it has six clearly fingered primaries which would point fairly heavily to OHB...

I don't know mig. timings for these through that region but Birds of Israel might have detals if anyone has access to that. Failing that there was a paper in BB from years back solely focussed on raptor mig. at Eilat / Israel that may be able to shed more light on timings.

Tim
 
In Birds of Israel HS only details the first record of OHB (Crested in litt) dated 14/05/94, HB dates are "Vanguard 18/03 to 02/04....main 28/04 to 25/05".

I was there first 3 weeks of March in 1995 and we saw HB fairly regularly although numbers built up towards the end, would have to ransack loft to get earliest date.
 
The Oriental Honey-buzzards are a relatively recent phenomenon in Israel (the only one mentioned in Birds of Israel was seen one day after I visited Eilat – May 14, 1994). The most recent info is probably here: http://www.israbirding.com/checklist/ – so it still is a month early.
I guess Jaap Schelvis' picture of a bird in Iran in January shows that they might well be possible at other times...
 
This is getting very interesting!

I've emailed my pics to Jonathan Meyrav at Kibbutz Lotan, I'll let you know if I get any feedback, meanwhile it's back to the books for a little research...
 
OHB or HB?

Based on that photo I am not sure if it is Oriental or Eurasian, but it is definitey a Honey Buzzard sp. and a female at that judging from the tail pattern. Immature tends to have a more diffuse tail band at the end, while female is a little wider, but still not dark, while the male has the brodest darkest tail band.

Though as Jan points out the bird in the pic appears to have 6 primaries and has the small headed look of OHB, and the pale throat is also a good indicator. I have to say though Jan the length of the tail and the breadth of the wings is not really a good ID feature.. at least from photos. I have seen OHB's with quite long tails, though they do tend to have quite broad wings, the angle of viewing can make them seem slenderer.

Oriental is a fairly late migrant in Japan, not arriving until the last week of April and peaking in Mid-May. So I would expect that birds returning in March might well have just reached Israel by the end of March in small numbers, as they pass through Malaysia in big numbers at that time.

Even though I have seen 1000's of Eurasian and Oriental they are still pretty tricky to seperate without prolonged views.

I think some Israeli raptor experts might be able to help further!

Sean
Hiroshima:t:

Here are some comparison shots:

female OHB

http://www.orientalbirdimages.org/s...result&Bird_ID=896&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1

http://www.orientalbirdimages.org/s...result&Bird_ID=896&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1

male OHB
http://www.orientalbirdimages.org/s...result&Bird_ID=896&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1

http://www.orientalbirdimages.org/s...result&Bird_ID=896&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1

juvenile OHB

http://www.orientalbirdimages.org/s...result&Bird_ID=896&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1

http://www.orientalbirdimages.org/s...result&Bird_ID=896&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1
 
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Hi Sean.

First - the top juvenile OHB you linked is not a OHB - looks more like a juvenile Bonelli´s Eagle.
Apparently the difference between races is not that significant with orientalis being the largest and longer winged and to choose a near race Indian ruficollis is smaller and shorter-winged.
Tail is proportionately shorter compared to EHB but will give a slimmer and longer impression when closed as in a similar fashion with EHB - which also can look quite broad-tailed.

http://www.tarsiger.com/images/late/perapi3068.jpg

It´s perhaps especially the hand of OHB (apart from the 6 fingers) that is the most striking difference from EHB and of course in certain angles and photos this will be more diffeicult to see. The dark carpal patch it totally lacking in marks bird - can vary in size in EHB.

JanJ

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=16620

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=6795
 
JANJ said:
Hi Sean.

First - the top juvenile OHB you linked is not a OHB - looks more like a juvenile Bonelli´s Eagle.
Apparently the difference between races is not that significant with orientalis being the largest and longer winged and to choose a near race Indian ruficollis is smaller and shorter-winged.
Tail is proportionately shorter compared to EHB but will give a slimmer and longer impression when closed as in a similar fashion with EHB - which also can look quite broad-tailed.

http://www.tarsiger.com/images/late/perapi3068.jpg

It´s perhaps especially the hand of OHB (apart from the 6 fingers) that is the most striking difference from EHB and of course in certain angles and photos this will be more diffeicult to see. The dark carpal patch it totally lacking in marks bird - can vary in size in EHB.

JanJ

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=16620

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=6795
Click to expand...

Hey Jan

Thanks for your reply

I have seen both species seperately, but never together and so it is difficult to gague differences. I have also never seen birds in the western part of OHB range, so have no idea if they are as you say shorter-winged and smaller. I am sure you are right. I will have a look through my raptors book.

By the way are you sure that first pic of immature OHB I posted is an immature Bonelli's? The only immature Bonelli's I have seen was rufous underneath, though I know there are pale phase birds! I can see what you mean, but I think the head suggest otherwise. Also Bonelli's would be hugely out of range in Singapore. Often immature Orientals in Japan don't really show the obvious tail bands you might expect.

Sean:t:
 
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First off, thanks for all your links and opinions; I'm really pleased I posted this pic here!

It would appear that if this is indeed an OHB, it is about a month earlier than Israel's previous earliest record, so not something to accept lightly (it would also be a first for me on two counts, my first OHB and the first time I have retrospectively ID'd a new bird from a photo).

I have to come clean and admit my first thought was that it was a Short-toed Eagle. The wing length (and head shape) gave me doubts; I was trying to work out if the angle of the picture had caused the wings to appear foreshortened, but really couldn't explain the head shape. As I mentioned above, OHB hadn't occurred to me. The week I saw this bird was the week of the Eilat Bird Festival, and the combined observations of a large and experienced group didn't even manage a Honey Buzzard in the whole week! To me, the bird looked like some weird combination of STE and Goshawk. OHB certainly fits the bill, and the lightened version posted by Heuglini looks very much like OHB. I shall be most interested to see how this progresses.
 
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