Definitely one to have a second look at I think.
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Am I completely nuts? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Vespobuteo
- Start date
Definitely one to have a second look at I think.
I had a 7x42 EDG, and reckon it´s combination of optical features made it the best optical performer I´ve owned, period. These have been explained already by more competent folk than I. The downside for me wasn´t the actual FOV, which is 8 degrees and therefore plenty. The problem was that the combination of very long eye-relief and comparatively narrow AFOV gave me a distracting keyhole effect. I now have a Zeiss FL 7x42 and although it´s much lighter, with a much more pleasing AFOV, I don´t think it´s as sharp as the EDG 7x42 and the perceived DOF isn´t as impressive. (I didn´t to a SxS comparison, though). I also have a pair of EDG 8x42 and they are probably the best all-rounder binos for me, although heavier than I would like. They trump my SE and EII (8x) on any optical level (except for the EII´s wider FOV).
However, as Gwen pointed out on another thread, the optical differences are minimal, infintessimal to the non-obsessed, and there´s nothing an EDG or FL can do that an SE/EII can´t, except go for a short swim up to two metres.
As regards the OP´s original question, i.e. FL 7x42 versus SV 8x32, I had the latter for over a year (a long time for me to keep a bino) and loved it. Definitely would have been my Holy Grail bino, except I found after a year that in certain very specific dull-light circumstances, I got a lot of veiling glare/haze-out. Whether this was a feature of internal reflections, or my pupil-dilation v. bino´s exit pupil, or a combination of these, I will never know.
That reminds me. I must sell some binos.
However, as Gwen pointed out on another thread, the optical differences are minimal, infintessimal to the non-obsessed, and there´s nothing an EDG or FL can do that an SE/EII can´t, except go for a short swim up to two metres.
As regards the OP´s original question, i.e. FL 7x42 versus SV 8x32, I had the latter for over a year (a long time for me to keep a bino) and loved it. Definitely would have been my Holy Grail bino, except I found after a year that in certain very specific dull-light circumstances, I got a lot of veiling glare/haze-out. Whether this was a feature of internal reflections, or my pupil-dilation v. bino´s exit pupil, or a combination of these, I will never know.
That reminds me. I must sell some binos.
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Vespobuteo
Well-known member
I think you have a relevant point there,
exit pupil is more important for viewing comfort in low light,
Well gracious alive, if you swap a 7x42 for an 8x32, you better know you are going to eat it in very low light. So? Have some fun. Enjoy a smaller tote, a wonderful ergonomic, and a miracle flat field. Enjoy the rolling ball even, hardly worse than the FL's edge blur. Pretend you're riding a merry-go-round if you have to. Learn eye positioning. SEE if you can detect the difference in focus force in forward and backwards direction. Find out what the heck Dennis is so on about. He may be over the top sometimes but dumb he is not. Do it Ves.
Ron
Ron
brocknroller
porromaniac
Vespobuteo
Well-known member
:-O
some good points there,
but last week when I tried a 8x32 SW I was surprised,
the focusing wheel was very smooth!
didn't notice much difference forward or backwards at all,
a thing that has annoyed me when trying then 8,5x42 (late last year, don't know the age of the binos though),
has swaro done something lately with focusing?
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brocknroller
porromaniac
AFAIK, the new models use the same one-way spring mechanism as the previous models, which is generally regarded as the culprit, though it doesn't explain why some focusers turn more smoothy than others right out of the box. However, there does seem to be less complaints about this issue with the 8x32 SV EL than with the 8.5x42 model.
Still, it's "hit or miss" when it comes to whether or not a particular Swaro sample (EL or SLC_ will have a smooth focuser, a coarse focuser, or one that turns smoothly only in one direction.
So far, no-one has been able to explain why this variation exists. From what I can tell, some of it's related to the user - how sensitive he is to the amount of "sticktion" in focusers and the way he uses the bin. Hunters would be less likely to notice the issue since they focus at long distances where the depth of focus is great. Also with birders who don't typically turn the focuser wheel back and forth a lot because they aren't chasing warblers and other quick moving birds at closer range, but are looking at longer distances.
User variation alone cannot account for why one sample has a smooth focuser and one has more sticktion in one direction than the other or why one is "coarse" turning in both directions, because several members have tried multiple samples and have reported varying esults with different samples from the same batch (i.e., samples in a store or at an optics show), which leads me to suspect that the the Uncertainty Principle is not limited to the quantum level.
Complaints about Swaro focusers have been so common and many buyers have returned their samples for repairs, that it's puzzling why Swaro, one of the top sports optics makers in the world, has not come up with a solution. I can only conclude it's because most of those returns are from birders, who do not make up the majority of buyers, hunters do, so the number of returns doesn't warrant the cost of a redesign, which would probably make expensive bins even more expensive.
Still, from what many members have reported, Swaros, the EL series in particular, have become quite popular among birders, so perhaps eventually Swaro will come up with a fix once the rate of return reaches a critical mass. In the meantime, all you can do is gripe and return your sample for replacement to the dealer or Swaro for repairs if it isn't smooth and to your liking.
If you found an 8x32 SV EL sample that has a smooth focuser, and you decide to buy an SV EL, then buy that sample, because you may not be as lucky with the next one. In most cases, Swaro sends the buyer a better sample when its returned for repairs. Not always, though, as we've seen with Piergiovanni, and with the member who got his EL back with the focuser still hard to turn, who then sold it and bought an FL. So it's best to "try before you buy." But that's true of all binoculars.
Brock
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Brock,
Swarovski probably doesn't get enough of these binoculars back to have their focus wheels fine tuned to make it worthwhile to change them. Most owners probably don't notice it. Especially the ones who do not access the Binocular Forum here.
Your guess is as good as mine on this. Besides if it is a simple procedure to fix it it is good public relations to do it at no charge.
I know that when focusing my 7x42SLC B it is firmer when rotating it in a counter clockwise direction than when it is going clockwise but the difference is really insignificant and not worth the trouble getting it evened out. In fact I probably would not have noticed it had it not been brought up as an issue here. It might even have been deliberately designed that way because if one is right handed it is easier to push with the forefinger than pull with it and it makes precise focusing easier.
Bob
Swarovski probably doesn't get enough of these binoculars back to have their focus wheels fine tuned to make it worthwhile to change them. Most owners probably don't notice it. Especially the ones who do not access the Binocular Forum here.
Your guess is as good as mine on this. Besides if it is a simple procedure to fix it it is good public relations to do it at no charge.
I know that when focusing my 7x42SLC B it is firmer when rotating it in a counter clockwise direction than when it is going clockwise but the difference is really insignificant and not worth the trouble getting it evened out. In fact I probably would not have noticed it had it not been brought up as an issue here. It might even have been deliberately designed that way because if one is right handed it is easier to push with the forefinger than pull with it and it makes precise focusing easier.
Bob
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oetzi
Well-known member
Vespobuteo
Well-known member
This is birdforum.net, "Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch' entrate."
:-O
time for a new domain name maybe?
birdforum.nut
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tonimaroni
Well-known member
I don't have a Zeiss 7x42Fl but a Zeiss 8x42Fl.
Comparing the 8x42 directly to my Swaro 8x32SV I don't find any differences in brightness during the day. At dusk you can use the 8x42 appr. 5-10 min longer - with the 7x42 probably plus additional 10 min. So you can chose between a much lighter and compact binocular and additional 20 min birding in the evening.
I have never noticed the rolling ball effect with the 8x32SV and also the focusing of my sample is very smooth.
If money is no obstacle, I would nevertheless keep my 7x42FL because it is probably the best 7-fold birding glas ever build. I still have my Zeiss Dialyth 7x42 - but it rests in my cupboard all the time and is used only for the moments when I take a look through the living room window and wallow in happy birding moments of the past... ;-)
Comparing the 8x42 directly to my Swaro 8x32SV I don't find any differences in brightness during the day. At dusk you can use the 8x42 appr. 5-10 min longer - with the 7x42 probably plus additional 10 min. So you can chose between a much lighter and compact binocular and additional 20 min birding in the evening.
I have never noticed the rolling ball effect with the 8x32SV and also the focusing of my sample is very smooth.
If money is no obstacle, I would nevertheless keep my 7x42FL because it is probably the best 7-fold birding glas ever build. I still have my Zeiss Dialyth 7x42 - but it rests in my cupboard all the time and is used only for the moments when I take a look through the living room window and wallow in happy birding moments of the past... ;-)
Mac308
Well-known member
Tonimaroni, have you noticed rolling ball effect in the larger SV models (8.5 and 10x42)?
For birding, or any wildlife viewing where weight and size aren't that important, I think a quality 7x42 is the finest bin available.
My bin's are "dual use" (mountain-backpack hunting and birding/wildlife viewing) so I use an 8x32 Ultravid, and it and its 7x30 and 8x30 predecessors have served me well over the last 25 years. I've really never wanted more.
I use a little 8x20 Zeiss for summer hiking.
However, a small 8x32 and 7x42 would comprise the "ultimate" pair for me, with a great 8x20 for the ultimate trio!
The only thing that would make them better is if they were all 7X!
Vespobuteo
Well-known member
7 is the magic number,
just woke up from a bad dream -
something about swaro and 8x32,
can't quite remember, scary stuff..
from now on I will glue my 7x42FL to my hands,
and tattoo the light transmission curve on my fore arm,
just woke up from a bad dream -
something about swaro and 8x32,
can't quite remember, scary stuff..
from now on I will glue my 7x42FL to my hands,
and tattoo the light transmission curve on my fore arm,
looksharp65
Well-known member
7 is the magic number,
just woke up from a bad dream -
something about swaro and 8x32,
can't quite remember, scary stuff..
from now on I will glue my 7x42FL to my hands,
and tattoo the light transmission curve on my fore arm,
Although the 7x42 FL isn't my favourite, I'd not let it go for an 8x32 but rather have both. My two main binoculars, the two I use the most are 7x42 and 8x32.
You're doing the right thing.
//L
