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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

The new 8x30 CLl's (1 Viewer)

elkcub said:
Brock,

...Backa forever ... :t:

Ed
Click to expand...

Thanks. That's my new motto!

Brock

P.S. As a birder on a budget contemplating an $1,100 purchase, you bet you sweet bippy I was concerned if they might cost me big money down the line for repairs.

Those with deeper pockets can "relax," because they can afford the repair bills if necessary or upgrade to the latest. But if I fork out over a thousand bucks, I want to know with absolute certainty that there's a safety net with a solid warranty in 10 or even 20 years.

In these uncertain times, I don't think anyone could say with absolute certainty what Swaro's policy will be in 10 years on pre-owned bins anymore than they could. I'm not even sure if Nikon will have its No Fault Warranty extended to used bins in 10 years either, but by and large, Nikon makes less expensive products, so that seems a bit more secure in my mind.

The economic times, they are a-changin' my friend. We almost had a total meltdown ala 1929. And in seven years, if predictions are right, China will beat the US as the next global economic superpower. Who would have thunk it 20 years ago?

"For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'."

Anyway, as Steve says, it's a "mute" point now, because I opted to buy the Nikons and the SLC is sold. The Nikons were a better bang for the buck, lighter weight, and have better resolution, according to the reviews I've read. Although I haven't had a 10x42 SLCneu in my hands, I did try it's smaller brother, the 8x30SLCneu, and the Nikon porros fit my hands better. The only thing I wish I could take from the SLCs are the eyecups, which fit well.

I'm happy with my purchases and have no regrets passing on the SLCs.
 
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elkcub said:
Brock,

I was simply questioning the origin and validity of your statement "... now that Swaro is no longer repairing used bins." So far, it seems to be gossip rather than fact, but folks do get alarmed. Perhaps a bit of rewording would put things right?

The European warranty isn't the same as SONA's in the US, but I think SONA is starting to make it harder for so-called gray market competitors. This I like. Why should SONA warrant what was not imported through them into the US and sold at a lower price? The gray market buyer should seek service outside the US according to the warranty that came with her binoculars.

Because they have been selling SLCs for 18-20 yrs now, with interchangeable innards and outards, my guess is that parts will be available well beyond 10 yrs from whenever they discontinue the line. Relax.

Ten years from now they might consider upgrading your SLC to the current HD, which may also be obsolete by that time. Hmmm. Backa forever ... :t:

Ed
Click to expand...
Swarovski's NA original owner warranty is perfectly clear and their service is legendary. Dale clarified the parts longevity issue more than a year ago, his post was easy to find and Brock just likes to make wild, unsubstantiated statements.
http://birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=206544
 
Pileatus said:
Swarovski's NA original owner warranty is perfectly clear and their service is legendary. Dale clarified the parts longevity issue more than a year ago, his post was easy to find and Brock just likes to make wild, unsubstantiated statements.
http://birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=206544
Click to expand...

John,

Thank you for finding Dale's post. It's about as clear as it's going to get. :t:

Personally, Brock is a big kick and has colorful ways of putting things. It may well be that he's made "unsubstantiated statements" now and again, but I doubt that you could substantiate that they were "wild," or that he 'likes" to make them (for their own sake?). In my book the last remark was totally uncalled for.

With regard to Brock's "wild" statements, this is a good time to mention that Renze and I have found good evidence during the past year or so to verify that there really were 804EDs issued in the late 1990s with black armoring and recessed objectives — just like he maintained. That's something I questioned several times. However, he took it with good spirit, and as it turned out he was right! There is evidence suggesting that these black 804s had recessed objectives, and apparently are repaired quite often in Nick Crista's shop.

Ed
 
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If Brock says something idiotic, it is just to make a point you know. Being, he is an idiot!
Just kidding Brock, we love you. Or most of us. Sorta.
Ron
 
Hi,

In answer to Gulf 1263's original question.

I've just purchased a pair of 8x30 CL's for my wife. She previously owned a pair of 8x32 Avian F's ( don't know if you have them in the states ) which are in themselves an excellent ' low ' price binocular.

The main reason for changing to the CL's are their lightness, about 500g - as opposed to the 635g for the Avian's.

Having had the CL's about a week I have to say I don't think they were worth more than twice the price of a new pair of comparable Avian's - 370GBP as opposed to 790GBP.

I'm not a technical expert on binoculars but to my eye's there doesn't seem much between them. The Avian's have a wider field of view but the CL's are slightly sharper with a greater depth of field. The CL's are perhaps 5% better than the Avian's.

What I really don't like about the CL's is the silly case that comes with them. Although it's well made, it's heavy, cumbersome, over engineered and doesn't have a shoulder strap, it's designed only to fit onto a belt. The neck strap is also much too big and heavy for such small light bins. I assume it's a one strap fits all for the entire Swarovski range.

In summary: My wife likes her new Swarovski's. They are reasonably well made, easy to handle, compact and light with good image clarity. Unfortunately, when you add the case and the strap they become slightly unwieldy.
 
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elkcub said:
With regard to Brock's "wild" statements, this is a good time to mention that Renze and I have found good evidence during the past year or so to verify that there really were 804EDs issued in the late 1990s with black armoring and recessed objectives — just like he maintained. That's something I questioned several times. However, he took it with good spirit, and as it turned out he was right!
Ed
Click to expand...

Well, a fool's bolt may also hit the mark...
 
John Barber said:
Hi,

In answer to Gulf 1263's original question.

I've just purchased a pair of 8x30 CL's for my wife. She previously owned a pair of 8x32 Avian F's ( don't know if you have them in the states ) which are in themselves an excellent ' low ' price binocular.

The main reason for changing to the CL's are their lightness, about 500g - as opposed to the 635g for the Avian's.

Having had the CL's about a week I have to say I don't think they were worth more than twice the price of a new pair of comparable Avian's - 370GBP as opposed to 790GBP.

I'm not a technical expert on binoculars but to my eye's there doesn't seem much between them. The Avian's have a wider field of view but the CL's are slightly sharper with a greater depth of field. The CL's are perhaps 5% better than the Avian's.

What I really don't like about the CL's is the silly case that comes with them. Although it's well made, it's heavy, cumbersome, over engineered and doesn't have a shoulder strap, it's designed only to fit onto a belt. The neck strap is also much too big and heavy for such small light bins. I assume it's a one strap fits all for the entire Swarovski range.

In summary: My wife likes her new Swarovski's. They are reasonably well made, easy to handle, compact and light with good image clarity. Unfortunately, when you add the case and the strap they become slightly unwieldy.
Click to expand...

John,

Thanks for providing some balance to the CL discussion "from the field". The view from my "armchair" looks a bit less tinted now. :)

More than twice the price but only 5 percent better? I think you might have just burst my "bubble". Well, we haven't seen a "bench test" yet, and as they say, one man's meat is another man's potatoes.

The important point is that your wife likes them. She could be buying $900 worth of shoes instead! :)

Plus, you inherit the Avians. So all and all not bad deal. :)

Brock
 
brocknroller said:
John,

The important point is that your wife likes them. She could be buying $900 worth of shoes instead! :)

Plus, you inherit the Avians. So all and all not bad deal. :)

Brock
Click to expand...

Brock

I think she would have prefered the shoes given the choice ! ( only kidding )

As for the Avian's, I've just sold them to a young guy for 100GBP. He's just starting bird watching on a budget. He's really pleased with them.

I myself have a pair of beloved Zeiss Victory FL 10x42's which I wouldn't swop for the world.
 
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I would be interested to see how the CLs fare against the Kowa Genesis 8x33, which appears to me to be one of its closest competitors. The Kowa is a bit more expensive, slightly bigger and heavier but has a magnesium body, XD glass, closer focusing and wider FOV. In fact, I can't understand why the little Kowa doesn't receive a lot more attention than it does.

I think Swarovski's marketing of the CL has been brilliant and feel that Nikon could take note of this. The CL is 'everywhere' at the moment but the Nikon EDG seems to be a closely guarded secret.

Ron
 
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Swarovski CL 8x30's

Hi folks:
"I'M BACK!"
I do have the Kowa 8x33 Genisis and really like them, as stated in another post.
They just don't get no respect...the two things I noticed was they are two+ ounces heavier than my 8x30 SLC neu's and the focus wheel seems flimsy.
IMHO the view is similar to Leica HD, a tiny bit blue and very little CA (I try not to notice it or let it distract me).
The 8x30 SLC neu's have more CA.
Might sell my 8x32 EL's or not, it is hard for me to part with any glass.
Have not had a chance to test them and probably won't since I do like the view.
Now comes the question, the Swaro 8x30 CL's are lighter and more compact which for me may make a difference.
I am going to try to find a pair of the Swaro's and compare the Kowa's to them.
Will let you folks know when and if I can make the comparison.
Still have not tried the newer Swaro Habicht waterproof poro's.
Have heard the eye relief is short for people who wear glasses.
Brock, keep hoping for a 8x32 waterproof/fogproof Nikon porro.
Best to all.
Art
 
gulf1263 said:
Hi folks:
"I'M BACK!"
.....
Brock, keep hoping for a 8x32 waterproof/fogproof Nikon porro.
Best to all.
Art
Click to expand...

Art,

Same team, different position, hoping now for a WP/FP 8x30 EII.

I don't bird in the rain, but the external focuser makes it too susceptible to sucking down cat hairs. I had a cat hair stuck to the bottom of one of the EPs for about six months until it finally dropped out of the optical path to God knows where. Someday when they cut these in half to show an inside view for the Nikon Porrosaurus Museum, a cat hair will be found, and visitors will wonder, did cats once have opposable thumbs and could use binoculars?

http://www.acc.umu.se/~zqad/cats/1188245238-1188061888083.b.jpg

"The cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."

Kool Kat :cool:
 
gulf1263 said:
Hi folks:
"I'M BACK!"
I do have the Kowa 8x33 Genisis and really like them, as stated in another post.
They just don't get no respect...the two things I noticed was they are two+ ounces heavier than my 8x30 SLC neu's and the focus wheel seems flimsy.
IMHO the view is similar to Leica HD, a tiny bit blue and very little CA (I try not to notice it or let it distract me).
The 8x30 SLC neu's have more CA.
Might sell my 8x32 EL's or not, it is hard for me to part with any glass.
Have not had a chance to test them and probably won't since I do like the view.
Now comes the question, the Swaro 8x30 CL's are lighter and more compact which for me may make a difference.
I am going to try to find a pair of the Swaro's and compare the Kowa's to them.
Will let you folks know when and if I can make the comparison.
Still have not tried the newer Swaro Habicht waterproof poro's.
Have heard the eye relief is short for people who wear glasses.
Brock, keep hoping for a 8x32 waterproof/fogproof Nikon porro.
Best to all.
Art
Click to expand...

Art
When you get a chance to try the 8x30 CL's how about doing a comparison to your 8x30 SLC's, as I'm sure many (or at least me) would be curious to see if the CL's have any real optical advantage over the SLC's.

Tom
 
Swarovski CL 8x30's

Hello again:
May not be able to compare the CL's, if I decide to get them, to the SLC's until I go back to New Mexico.
Left the SLC's there and brought the Genisis home to Alaska.
It is hard to run tests in Albuquerque because of the very bright sunshine, trying to test for CA is very tough.
If I can find a pair of SLC's here in Alaska to borrow I will do the test here.
It won't be anything formal though, just my opinion.
Thanks
Art
 
NoSpringChicken said:
I think Swarovski's marketing of the CL has been brilliant and feel that Nikon could take note of this. The CL is 'everywhere' at the moment but the Nikon EDG seems to be a closely guarded secret.

Ron
Click to expand...

Its the grossly inflated price which kills it, look at the HG's they wanted mega money for those when they first appeared and now you can get them for very a modest sum if you look hard enough.
£1500+- for a 8x42 3:) 3:) 3:)
 
ingle1970 said:
Its the grossly inflated price which kills it, look at the HG's they wanted mega money for those when they first appeared and now you can get them for very a modest sum if you look hard enough.
£1500+- for a 8x42 3:) 3:) 3:)
Click to expand...

Agreed about the Nikons, but Swaro prices seem to hold up much better. Unless there is some "fatal flaw" that has yet to be revealed about the CLs, I don't think we will see the price drop too far below the current price.

The best deal now is 10% off LL Bean. I think that's as low as it will limbo except perhaps for demos or refurbs, which are probably a year or two away.

Brock
 
ingle1970 said:
Its the grossly inflated price which kills it, look at the HG's they wanted mega money for those when they first appeared and now you can get them for very a modest sum if you look hard enough.
£1500+- for a 8x42 3:) 3:) 3:)
Click to expand...
I have just done a quick search and the 8x42 EDG seems to be about the same price as the other flagship size bins from Swarovski, Leica and Zeiss (although the latter appears to be on special offer at the moment which makes it a bit of a 'bargain'.)

My point was that Nikon have never really promoted the EDG bins, since their launch. I am sure many potential purchasers don't even know that they exist. By contrast, Swarovski have managed to promote the CLs really well and I am sure they will sell strongly. Perhaps they learned their lesson from their stuttering and delayed introduction of the SV range.

Ron
 
NoSpringChicken said:
I have just done a quick search and the 8x42 EDG seems to be about the same price as the other flagship size bins from Swarovski, Leica and Zeiss (although the latter appears to be on special offer at the moment which makes it a bit of a 'bargain'.)

My point was that Nikon have never really promoted the EDG bins, since their launch. I am sure many potential purchasers don't even know that they exist. By contrast, Swarovski have managed to promote the CLs really well and I am sure they will sell strongly. Perhaps they learned their lesson from their stuttering and delayed introduction of the SV range.

Ron
Click to expand...

True enough. I recently wrote in this forum that Nikon should take a lesson from Swaro's excellent marketing.

Price-wise, the problem is that the EDG I was priced significantly lower than the EDG II, and the only difference, besides the body redesign, is that the focuser knobs don't come loose like the first generation.

The 8x32 EDG I was selling for $999 with a $500 free camera. Eagle Optics and many other stores are now selling the same binoculars with the new style body for $1,999.

Even if I could afford it, I can't see paying twice the price for a corrected defect that should never have been allowed to get past QC in the first place.

Even the early reviewers who had "prototypes" noticed the problem. One said that he expected Nikon would fix the problem before it actually went into mass production. So did I.

Plus, those who bought the EDG I with bad focusers got them replaced with EDG IIs, so I can't see how the EDG II is going to sell at $2K even if it is competitive optically and mechanically with the alphas.

In addition, there is a history of discounting with their top roofs. Nikon lowered the price of their HGLs, which were priced at $1,400 when they first came out but can now be had for $899 on eBay and less used. B & H had a "9" condition 8x42 Premier (HGL) for sale a couple weeks ago for $449! If I weren't allergic to "rolling ball" I would have jumped on that deal. Saw another in mint condition on eBay for $595 last week.

So I'm taking a "watch and wait" approach to the EDG II pricing, and I suspect that I'm not the only one.

Brock
 
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I was recently reading a copy of the "Grays of Westminter Gazette" dated December 1997, it carried a glowing review of the new Nikon HG binocular and invited orders for late December delivery, £1400 for the 8x42 and £1500 for the 10x42!!, not sure what that would be at 2011 prices but if it's similar to beer inflation then at least 4K.
I wonder if anyone actually bought a pair at that price? By December 2004 "Birdwatching" magazine lists the new HGLs at £799 and £899 respectively and the "old" HGs at £499 for either (that was a bargain worth waiting for)
Petroc.
 
Back on topic somewhat, I'm expecting delivery of my 8x30 CL's day after tomorrow. I have the 8x30 SLCneu to compare it to and that will be the first thing I do.

But......my expertise on such matters is really lacking compared to you guys, so it's going to be more like "I like this one better" in the most rudimentary of terms.
 
highxj said:
....my expertise on such matters is really lacking compared to you guys, so it's going to be more like "I like this one better" in the most rudimentary of terms.
Click to expand...

After all is said and done, etc., it's the "I like this one better" opinion that really counts.:t:
 
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