• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

New Swaro Pockets (1 Viewer)

I am glad packlite also likes these pocket binos !

I should add that I also have rather old eyes(64 years) and wear eyeglasses with progressive lenses. Therefore the 17mm eye relief on these binoculars is very important
 
Last edited:
8 x25 pocket cl The depth of field and depth of focus [ they are two different things ] is amazing ,sharp right to the edge , great easy eye placement ,should come with a warning if if you have not bought swarovski binoculars before. As regards to natural colours and pop [ 3 dimension ] well they are eye candy.
 

It is funny to me that the innovative aspect of the CL that makes it more comfortable than other pocket bins is that it is bigger. Ha! I'm not saying there is anything wrong with occupying the niche between tiny pocket bins and small x32 models (like the Leica or Zeiss models), but I can't bring myself to criticize 8x20 models for doing what they were designed to do--be small!

--AP
 
FWIW I just tried the 8x25 CLs. My opinion of that particular unit was....

- excellent overall image quality

- initially struck by the huge sweet spot and excellent edge performance.
- excellent apparent brightness for a 25 mm binocular.
- very good CA control
- very good color saturation and apparent contrast
- after reading comments here I was expecting something of a lack of apparent sharpness. That was not the case in actual use. I had no problem identifying extremely fine details with this unit.

As a point of reference this unit was a display unit which was for sale from a local retailer, not one of the display units in the Swaro booth at the local show. I did compare two samples from the same retailer and my comments apply to both.

Having said that I will also say that I did not like them ergonomically. They weren't bad but the dual hinge just isn't my cup of tea. Too easy for me to accidentally bump one barrel or the other and subsequently knock off the correct IPD....IMO something critical for an 8x25 binocular because of the 3-something exit pupil.
 
Last edited:
Interesting comments. I really like the *idea* of these but that dual hinge design is not at all appealing to me.

In my own experience, otherwise great bins are limited or even ruined for me due to ergonomic shortcomings. I'd love to get a chance to see these in the flesh but when I was shopping for a compact binocular 6-7 years ago, I still remember that the reason I ultimately chose Victory 10x25's over the Swaro version of the same was the excellent ergos of the Zeiss even though I felt the Swaro optics were slightly better. But for more $ and that dual hinge which I couldn't get along with, the Zeiss won overall.

However, I still would like an excellent pair of travel bins that were a little easier to use than the 10x25 with an ocular that didn't tickle my eyelashes. These Swaros are supposed to solve that with bigger eyecups. But then you ask, well why not the 8x30 CL's or their equivalent?
 
Interesting comments. I really like the *idea* of these but that dual hinge design is not at all appealing to me.....

However, I still would like an excellent pair of travel bins that were a little easier to use than the 10x25 with an ocular that didn't tickle my eyelashes. These Swaros are supposed to solve that with bigger eyecups. But then you ask, well why not the 8x30 CL's or their equivalent?

CSG,

You might well arsk, and you might well get the answer that the CL isn't "sharp enough". When the same was said about the CL Pockets, I thought, here we go again, but more and more consensus is building for the Pockets being "sharp." It's one of those HE SAID/SHE SAID divisions that can only be conclusively decided by one of Ed's statistical meta-analyses. I mean, who could argue with statistics? Don't you, for example, take comfort in the fact that you are more likely to get killed in a car accident than in a plane crash when you're flying?

When the plane I was flying in took off from Newark Airport (NJ) and encountered wind sheer and the plane was nearly titling on its side that's what I told the woman next to me who had dug her fingers into my arm. Didn't seem to help. I guess not all people believe in statistics. ;)

Anyway, if the CL Companions were "sharp" I'd choose them over a pocket bin, because I'm not a fan of the dual hinge design either.

RBP
 
IMHO, they aren't much smaller than the Kowa BD 8x25's and optically are about equal...much more expensive.
I can not see they are any real advantage over the Kowa's.
As always, YMMV.
Art
 
I thought I'd make another observation on the size of the new 8 x 25 CL with regard to it's ergonomics and it's cost.

For all practical purposes it is the same size as most of the original 10 x 25 pocket binoculars are. In fact, it will fit into the case of my Nikon 10 x 25 LX L very comfortably.

It is actually a couple of millimeters shorter and narrower than the Nikon and the bridge on the Nikon is a couple of mm wider.

The hinges on the bridges of both of them are stiff and stay firmly in position but it is still easy to change the IPD if needed. I extend the right hinge out fully locked and control the IPD by moving the left barrel as necessary. This is much easier to do than trying to adjust both hinges at the same time. In essence it is the same thing that is done on the Zeiss Victory compacts which have only one off set hinge.

The rubber rim of the Swarovski's eye cups are about 3mm wider across the eye cups and are thicker than the Nikon's are and it's eye relief is 2.5mm longer. The width of the exposed glass in the oculars is the same. It is easier for me to brace the Swarovski up against my eye brows than it is with the Nikon.

For those who are wondering about the eye cups on the Swarovski 8 x 30 CL (which my wife has) they are at least 5mm wider across the eye cup than the 8 x 25 CLs are and they are thicker and larger.

As for the price, it is still in the same ball park as the old 8 x 20 Swarovski's were. (Camera Land still lists the 8 x 20 Crystal Series at $899.99.) IMO this new 8 x 25 CL is a good deal with it's wider FOV; larger Exit Pupils; longer ER; and a larger, more accessible focus wheel located where you can use your index finger. And, don't forget the more comfortable eye cups.

I really don't think that anyone expected them to be less expensive than the originals were and in fact there were many here who argued that the old ones were the best 8 x 20 compacts of the big 4.

Bob
 
Last edited:
Bob,

I did try that trick with just using one barrel to adjust while leaving the other in the "locked" position. It does help but then the angle created with the central bridge feels a bit "funny" to my hands.

The eyecup diameter did take a bit of a time to get accustomed to. I always forget that when I switch to a narrow diameter eyecup. I wanted to just use them with the eyecups fully collapsed (as I do with almost all my full size and mid-sized units) but when I did I immediately got black-outs. With the eyecups extended and a little "tweaking" of my holding style I was rewarded with a gorgeous view. I would have no problem using these for almost everything. Great little glass.
 
I have been idly looking for a compact binocular with (approaching) mid-sized ergonomics and optical performance for a while and found many of the preceding posts on the CL Pocket useful. I have many outdoor interests, some of which are physically demanding, and have found myself sometimes unwilling to take even my relatively small and light Trinovid 8x32BN with me. When instead I have taken my Trinovid 8x20BCA compact, I have often been frustrated by the tiny controls and fiddly ergonomics.

I took a chance and bought a 10x25 CL Pocket in the hope that it would fit the niche of providing quality optics in an ergonomically sound (almost) compact package. I’ve been using it for about a fortnight now and though I am by no means an optics expert, I have the following field based observations.

Image: I find the optics splendid. The image is brighter than both my 8x32BN and 8x20BCA in good daylight and only starts to lose out to the 8x32 deep into the half-light of dusk and dawn. I personally find the resolution fine and perceive a sharp image across a pleasingly large sweet spot. It has to be said though that the depth of view is small and very accurate focussing is required to produce the best results. A little colour fringing can be induced (dark tree bough against a bright sky) but I have to be slightly out of focus to force this issue and in ‘normal’ use I have no problem. I am aware of a minor rolling ball effect when panning up and down but not when panning left to right. At no time is this terribly pronounced though and it does not affect my ability to scan for subjects. The field of view is very good for a 10x25 and the binocular does not suffer from blackouts. I tried an 8x20 Swarovski about 18 yrs ago and found an overall ‘warm red’ colour rendition that I couldn’t get along with. Thankfully, the 10x25 CL Pocket has no trace of any odd hue; colours seem very natural and vivid.

Usability: The 10x25 CL-P indeed folds down to a pocketable size, notwithstanding the somewhat oversized case. I don’t understand why Swarovski would supply such a relatively voluminous case with such a compact instrument: not very joined up thinking. The strap too is somewhat incongruous, being more bulky and complex than it needs to be for such a lightweight binocular. A simple string-based strap which would coil neatly into the folded-down binocular, would be far more user friendly, and allow the smallest case possible to boot. The supplied strap has a mind of its own when it comes to packing the binocular into the case and adds a good deal of bulk. A further irritation is the positioning of the strap mounts on the binocular itself. These are towards the underside of the barrels rather than at 3 and 9 o’clock and mean that when hung around the neck the objective side of the binocular is the only part that rests against the torso and leaves the eyepieces a good few centimetres off the chest; right underneath mouth and nostrils! The CL-P is, as a result of this position, more inclined to try to dance about and turn pirouettes when climbing over fences etc. Even though very light, it feels odd not to have the binocular lie flat against my chest.

Otherwise, ergonomically, I find the CL-P very friendly indeed. Its large (for a compact) eyecups sit very comfortably on my face, much better than my 8x20BCA. Even though the eyecups are still too small to rest on the bony parts of my eye-sockets, I find them a very comfortable and a solid contact point – way better than the other current alpha compacts. The eye-relief is splendid too and helps to make acquiring subjects very easy. On that point, I wear reading glasses and with the eyecups twisted in can quickly bring this instrument to my eyes without the faff of removing my glasses to catch subjects very quickly. I haven’t been able to do this satisfactorily with my 8x20BCA or any other compacts I’ve tried. Big bonus for when I’m doing something that requires my readers, yet spot something worth a look. A further bonus of the generous eye relief is that I can happily blink whilst using the instrument with the cups out and not have to worry about brushing the lenses with eyelash grease.

I find the 10x25 CL-P’s size makes it far more comfortable to hold than tiny compacts and experimenting with grip means I’ve found a way to hold it very steady indeed. I don’t find the oft-reported extra shake of a 10x in any way a detraction and indeed have found I can pick out detail that is lost to me with my 8x20BCA and 8x32BN. The dioptre control is reassuringly stiff and out of the way so once set (tricky) is a ‘forget’ item. The focus knob is very smooth but does have a very slight amount of slack, more noticeable in cooler temperatures. This is not troublesome in the field though where focussing is natural, smooth, and easy – even in gloves.

I read a lot about the bridge hinges being floppy and indeed, as supplied, I found them on the slack side; the left barrel being slightly looser than the right. As has been mentioned this arrangement, though allowing effortless IPD adjustment, is not conducive to ‘one-handing’ or consistent use of the instrument, so I adjusted them.

It was easy to get to the hinge pins and 10 minutes with a couple of screwdrivers and some thread locking compound saw the matter sorted. The hinges now have just the right amount of ‘give’ for me, are very smooth and easily adjusted, but don’t flop about all over the place under normal handling.

In summary then, this is a splendid binocular and I will happily use it as my main optic for at least 90% of my jaunts. It is light and compact enough to take anywhere but has more of a mid-sized feel and optical performance. It is light enough to carry and use all day long, is a pleasure to use, and will – as a result – rarely be left at home. If it wasn’t for the strap mounting positioning, the strap itself; and oversized case, it is hard to imagine a more user friendly alpha optic – once those hinges are tweaked.
 
Last edited:
Starfish:

Welcome to the Birdforum. A very thorough review and well done, you have
written this like you write for an optics journal.

You have explained things well, and how every binocular has its compromises.

These sound like a good choice in the pocket size, with the 25mm objective, and
the larger oculars for easier use.

Jerry
 
I have owned my 8 x 25 pocket CL binos for a few weeks (see prior posts) and very much agree with the review by Starfish. My main complaints also are the strap and the large case (I have the same complaint about the case for my 8.5 x 42 Swarovison binos!). However those issues can be forgiven in light of the optical quality of these binoculars
 
Excellent review, Starfish! Thanks for the info, and it's a pleasure to read.

It sounds like loose hinges are pretty common on these Pocket CL's, and since I'll probably end up with one soon, and would likewise not like loose hinges (kind of a pet peeve of mine actually) could you explain the process of adjustment? Also, I assume you used a low-strength thread lock? Do you think the thread lock was necessary or added assurance?

Ah, those field bags. I don't think anyone has posted that they use them. And for a dual-hinge compact, an oversized case is particularly odd. I'd look for a small case designed for compact digital cameras. All shapes and sizes are available.

Mark
 
Starfish

Super review and thoroughly enjoyed reading it. Really nice to hear about every-day aspects of use and handling.

Long may your threads remain locked :t:

Lee
 
crinkly:

What jerry said... :t:

Kammerdiner:

I think there is a very good chance that you will not have to deal with loose hinges. The hinges on my CL Pocket were nice and tight when they were new, and still are today.
 
Compared the Swaro 10x25 CL with the Nikon 10x25 XL, two pairs of Nikon beat the Swaro in comparison except in handling.
Again compared the Kowa 8x25 BD to the Swaro 8x25 CL, Swaro was slightly more compact but really did not have a any performance advantage optically.
Color was ever so slightly better with the Swaro, sweet spot same, sharpness the same, edge ever so slightly better...none of which made the performance any less impressive for the Kowa, lower price for the Kowa's make them best buys.
Against the Leica 8x20 Ultravid and Nikon 8x20 XL, Swaro's were better optically because of the larger objective size but you can not pocket them the same way you can the Leica's and Nikon's.
I love most Swaro glass but will not replace my Leica and Nikon 8x20's because of their small size that fits easily in a pocket.
YMMV.
I hope Swaro will redo their 8x20's and upgrade them in the future and will be looking forward to testing them.
Art
 
In comparing models at the recent optics fair in Sonoma, I took my Nikon LXL 10x25.

I thought the Nikon and the Swaro 10x25 CL very close in image, with perhaps a small nod to the Nikon.

The 10x25 Ultravid had a bit more pop and contrast, but the overall image was not as critically sharp or appealing as the Swaro or the Nikon.

The Zeiss Victory 10x25 was last, but was still excellent.

I think it is hard to find fault with any of these models, and ergonomics or the slightly better pop and contrast of the Ultravid might be the determining factors.



Overall, I am glad I have my Nikons, wouldn't trade them for any of the others. Or, I might trade one of the more expensive ones, sell it, and buy back the Nikon, heh, heh!
 
Last edited:
Cjfrbw, do you mean Zeiss Conquest or Victory? (If you do mean Conq. the Victory should compare even better with those models.) Thinking of a Z. Vict. to replace a Leica Ultravid in 10x25, assuming that the Z. will provide more "overrun past infinity" in focusing than the L., as Z. is generally better than L. in this regard. (Matters when a short sighted user doesn't use specs.) Appreciate if you are able comment on this also. Update You have corrected that just before I posted! Are you able to respond to the second point? Thanks. PS Also perhaps with regard to the new Swaro so this won't be off topic!
 
Last edited:
Warning! This thread is more than 10 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top