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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

New Zeiss Victory SF !!!!!! (1 Viewer)

SF 8X42 Star test.

Binocular was cooldown for 30min before the test and handheld resting my body agains a wall, not a big deal for a quick 8x test under the stars.

Well binocular fails clearly in both barrels to produce a compact point of light with Mag 3,4 stars.

Both barrels shows by a very small margin the same amount of astigmatism, not very hight but present.

Not a surprise astigmatism is something that ZEISS is famous for it.

A little bit of pinched optics on right barrel......

This was a quick look waiting for feedback from real experts.

Cheers.
 
SF 8X42 Star test.

Binocular was cooldown for 30min before the test and handheld resting my body agains a wall, not a big deal for a quick 8x test under the stars.

Well binocular fails clearly in both barrels to produce a compact point of light with Mag 3,4 stars.

Both barrels shows by a very small margin the same amount of astigmatism, not very hight but present.

Not a surprise astigmatism is something that ZEISS is famous for it.

A little bit of pinched optics on right barrel......

This was a quick look waiting for feedback from real experts.

Cheers.
Are you going to retun them to Zeiss?
 
Globetrotter,

Are you talking about astigmatism in the center of the field? Did you control for the possibility of the astigmatism coming from your eyes as looking at stars through an 8x42 will possibly have your eyes using a full 5mm of pupil size.

Kimmo
 
Zeiss SF lacks sharpness and colour sparkle??!

Dennis (aka Howie) :loveme: cops a lot of flak on this forum -- and rightly so ...... from his sometimes foggy and vague understanding of optic principles, the flip-flopping and pumping and dumping, to the unrelated and incomprehensible replies to posts - any posts, even his own, just to provide a platform for the verbal spillage of the time - it must be in some way cathartic - coz you sure as eggs :egghead: wouldn't want that stuff clogging your own mind! .............. :brains:

But I have to say, this time I see where Dennis is coming from, and the genuine concerns behind it. :t:

Dennis already has a very nice mid-size birding bin in the 8×32 SV --- you might say it's currently the ultimate within its given set of compromises. He even started a thread seeking answers to the ×42mm dilemma (size+weight v's performance and diminishing gains). What truly came out of that thread? - that the new Leica 8×42 HD+ may be worth a look within its given compromises, but really 42mm entails a bit of a step up in size and weight. So dennis's question then becomes is it worth it?? :cat: ..... All good natured jokes about lack of chest hair, girly arms and cricket bat shoulders aside, a conditional yes (given the faster than SV focuser, sharpish edges and huge FOV) on the weight and size front for the SF. But then there is the important question of moolah .......... :h?: :stuck:

This is a 2500 !! Dollar bin - or comparitively more if you live outside of the money printing consumer capital of the US of A. Quite frankly, the supply delays, early teething problems, lacklustre colours (compared to the SV - 50mm in particular, which positively sparkles!), undesireable blue-ringed edges, Wetzlar blurred rings, focus questions (I thought Brock! would have merrily weighed in on that one by now! :), and lack of sharpness?? (heck - my UHDTV absolutely smokes HDTV :smoke: and makes standard definition look like a later day Monet painting! :) are just not acceptable.

I know enough about manufacturing to know that where there is smoke there is fire! The performance from Zeiss is sloppy and just not good enough. (I would politely ask Lee to refrain from weighing in with all the marketing fluff, quoted advertorial hyperbole, and usual one-eyed bunkum .... it does your rep no good at all - no matter what sort of cutesy humour, and quasi-balanced multi-brand history it is wrapped up in .... not having a go at you Lee - just firing a good natured pre-emptive shot across your bows, which is preferable to the case if I was Russian - where I would ram your goodship lollipop with my destroyer as a way of resolving escalating conflict!! :)

Several paying customers have now raised these issues. Zeiss has well and truly shot itself in the foot with the overblown claims, interminable delays, and dodgy early run quality. Several wise old owls called it early on - evolution of the benchmark at best - not revolution. We must ask serious questions about the design success when the focus issues reported arise, Wetzlar blurred rings feature (Tim - your eyes must be sharp as a tack. I've seen the same blurred zone in the Zen-Ray PrimeHD -- so am wary of that one), and now the central sharpness is called into question !!!! Really? The sharpness????! That fundamental quality of a bin that makes you pick it up in the first place!!!!!!!

Torview makes the good point that it is very worthwhile to A-B these bins with your sharpness/ contrast/ and colour representation standards. There is no such thing as "boosted" colors - just lack of transmission and imbalance. For the sake of some of the newbs and genuine early adopter information seekers out there, can we put that one to bed once and for all. :gn: The Swaro SV has been described as 3D-like due to its sparkling crystalline colour representation Wow! Personally I see it - particularly in the 10×50SV ..... If the Zeiss SF falls "flat" in comparison, then that's an issue for claiming top dawg status.

Really, questions of sharpness are very serious (enough for Dennis to snap his wallet shut). Globetrotter's observations were quite interesting. Customers should not be the final arbiters of Quality Assurance. I look forward to the much needed rigorous and quantitative resolution and star testing by Kimmo, and HenryLink, and Typo et all ......

Is this bin Sharp or not? Is this bin the sharpest thing since ZZ Top? Does it equal or exceed the sharpness of the Leica HD/HD+, or the SV? If not, then claims of the world's best are misleading at best - willfully scurrilous at worst. The Tested truth is out there .......

Btw. No kangaroos hopping down the main street were harmed in the making of this post ;P


Chosun :gh:
 
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And so, Globetrotter appeared here in Bird Forum on Jan. 13th, reporting from Madrid; and in 15 short posts he destroyed the reputation of Zeiss's flagship binocular; the 8x42SF!

Let us bury it now and be done with it! :gn:

Bob
 
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And so, Globetrotter appeared here in Bird Forum on Jan. 13th, reporting from Madrid; and in 15 short posts he destroyed the reputation of Zeiss's flagship binocular; the 8x42SF!

Let us bury it now and be done with it! :gn:

Bob

I'm not too swayed by internet reports, unless I am pretty sure of the person doing the reporting. If the person is an unknown quantity, then it is for the most part hearsay.
 
Dennis (aka Howie) :loveme: cops a lot of flak on this forum -- and rightly so ...... from his sometimes foggy and vague understanding of optic principles, the flip-flopping and pumping and dumping, to the unrelated and incomprehensible replies to posts - any posts, even his own, just to provide a platform for the verbal spillage of the time - it must be in some way cathartic - coz you sure as eggs :egghead: wouldn't want that stuff clogging your own mind! .............. :brains:

But I have to say, this time I see where Dennis is coming from, and the genuine concerns behind it. :t:

Dennis already has a very nice mid-size birding bin in the 8×32 SV --- you might say it's currently the ultimate within its given set of compromises. He even started a thread seeking answers to the ×42mm dilemma (size+weight v's performance and diminishing gains). What truly came out of that thread? - that the new Leica 8×42 HD+ may be worth a look within its given compromises, but really 42mm entails a bit of a step up in size and weight. So dennis's question then becomes is it worth it?? :cat: ..... All good natured jokes about lack of chest hair, girly arms and cricket bat shoulders aside, a conditional yes (given the faster than SV focuser, sharpish edges and huge FOV) on the weight and size front for the SF. But then there is the important question of moolah .......... :h?: :stuck:

This is a 2500 !! Dollar bin - or comparitively more if you live outside of the money printing consumer capital of the US of A. Quite frankly, the supply delays, early teething problems, lacklustre colours (compared to the SV - 50mm in particular, which positively sparkles!), undesireable blue-ringed edges, Wetzlar blurred rings, focus questions (I thought Brock! would have merrily weighed in on that one by now! :), and lack of sharpness?? (heck - my UHDTV absolutely smokes HDTV :smoke: and makes standard definition look like a later day Monet painting! :) are just not acceptable.

I know enough about manufacturing to know that where there is smoke there is fire! The performance from Zeiss is sloppy and just not good enough. (I would politely ask Lee to refrain from weighing in with all the marketing fluff, quoted advertorial hyperbole, and usual one-eyed bunkum .... it does your rep no good at all - no matter what sort of cutesy humour, and quasi-balanced multi-brand history it is wrapped up in .... not having a go at you Lee - just firing a good natured pre-emptive shot across your bows, which is preferable to the case if I was Russian - where I would ram your goodship lollipop with my destroyer as a way of resolving escalating conflict!! :)

Several paying customers have now raised these issues. Zeiss has well and truly shot itself in the foot with the overblown claims, interminable delays, and dodgy early run quality. Several wise old owls called it early on - evolution of the benchmark at best - not revolution. We must ask serious questions about the design success when the focus issues reported arise, Wetzlar blurred rings feature (Tim - your eyes must be sharp as a tack. I've seen the same blurred zone in the Zen-Ray PrimeHD -- so am wary of that one), and now the central sharpness is called into question !!!! Really? The sharpness????! That fundamental quality of a bin that makes you pick it up in the first place!!!!!!!

Torview makes the good point that it is very worthwhile to A-B these bins with your sharpness/ contrast/ and colour representation standards. There is no such thing as "boosted" colors - just lack of transmission and imbalance. For the sake of some of the newbs and genuine early adopter information seekers out there, can we put that one to bed once and for all. :gn: The Swaro SV has been described as 3D-like due to its sparkling crystalline colour representation Wow! Personally I see it - particularly in the 10×50SV ..... If the Zeiss SF falls "flat" in comparison, then that's an issue for claiming top dawg status.

Really, questions of sharpness are very serious (enough for Dennis to snap his wallet shut). Globetrotter's observations were quite interesting. Customers should not be the final arbiters of Quality Assurance. I look forward to the much needed rigorous and quantitative resolution and star testing by Kimmo, and HenryLink, and Typo et all ......

Is this bin Sharp or not? Is this bin the sharpest thing since ZZ Top? Does it equal or exceed the sharpness of the Leica HD/HD+, or the SV? If not, then claims of the world's best are misleading at best - willfully scurrilous at worst. The Tested truth is out there .......

Btw. No kangaroos hopping down the main street were harmed in the making of this post ;P


Chosun :gh:
"Dennis (aka Howie) cops a lot of flak on this forum -- and rightly so ...... from his sometimes foggy and vague understanding of optic principles, the flip-flopping and pumping and dumping, to the unrelated and incomprehensible replies to posts - any posts, even his own, just to provide a platform for the verbal spillage of the time - it must be in some way cathartic - coz you sure as eggs wouldn't want that stuff clogging your own mind! ..............

But I have to say, this time I see where Dennis is coming from, and the genuine concerns behind it"

Was that a compliment? FINALLY the "Down-Under Comedian" is beginning to see things my way! "foggy and vague understanding of optic prinicipals" Now really. We all know I am the modern day Isaac Newton when it comes to optics you just don't want to admit it. I taught Henry Link everything he knows. I am glad to see you agree with me on the SF and that it should be approached with caution. I even have people who have tried the SF telling me to keep my SV. Now that is scary. Since I only have $1500 in my SV I think I am going to wait for Henry's definitive star test on the SF to see what is wrong with this critter. Even to a person with deep optical pockets like me $2500 is a pretty good chunk of change for an "Optical Lemon." I don't think Globetrotter is making all this stuff up. Nobody who works for Swarovski would live in a hot climate like Spain.

"Dennis already has a very nice mid-size birding bin in the 8×32 SV --- you might say it's currently the ultimate."

I am starting to like you Chosun. Would you take me birding if I came down there? No Crocs just birds.
 
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And so, Globetrotter appeared here in Bird Forum on Jan. 13th, reporting from Madrid; and in 15 short posts he destroyed the reputation of Zeiss's flagship binocular; the 8x42SF!

Let us bury it now and be done with it! :gn:

Bob
Do you work for Zeiss? Why would you want to bury it? If there are problems with the SF let's publicize so know body buys it until they get the bugs out. I put my credit card back in the vault.
 
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Death by internet forum.........

Hopefully someone I trust like Kimmo or Henry will try these out but I won't fall into Chosun's hysteria just yet.

I know that both Frank D and Hermann were very impressed, and I would trust those opinions over the rampant BS that is filling this thread lately. These threads are all about cherry-picking views that [either] match your opinion or match your aspiration / expectation. There seems little to no reason to participate anymore.
 
Globetrotters post #2301 (!) strikes me as frank, and aware of the subjectivity of his eyes-only method. He is keen himself for a Henry or Kimmo to weigh in (and so am I). What more could you ask? Many of the things he has said ring a bell with my own experience. I have read reports outside this forum that found Zeiss to have central astigmatism. In my (limited compared to some here) experience and reading, Zeiss is the leader in high technology but S and L may do better at the annoying craft of adjusting optics.

I've been pretty lucky with two FL's myself. My 8x42, in a boosted test against an 8x42 Leica Trinovid BA, only revealed astigmatism in one barrel and that one still resolved 3.2 arcsec, if fuzzily, no slouch, still no double star monster. The Leica revealed none. That is the only boosted test I have ever done.

But my 10x56 FL produces wonderfully tight star images, as have EL and SV Swaro 8.5x42s. I've got a 10x50 Leica BR that isn't that hot, and had a couple of Trinovid BA/BN 12X50s that were satisfying, but despite their magnification, the 10x56 equals in splitting.

FWIW, 2 Puppis is a bitch for 10x. (Figure of speech, female binophiles!). Maybe too far south for some of you, but not Chosun!

Ron
 
Death by internet forum.........

Hopefully someone I trust like Kimmo or Henry will try these out but I won't fall into Chosun's hysteria just yet.

I know that both Frank D and Hermann were very impressed, and I would trust those opinions over the rampant BS that is filling this thread lately. These threads are all about cherry-picking views that [either] match your opinion or match your aspiration / expectation. There seems little to no reason to participate anymore.

James, no need to be so cynical .... This is not a hysterical casting of the final stone --- just a precautionary tale .........

Actual bought with hard earned cash reports (as opposed to paid holiday gushings) are pretty thin on the ground. I've seen enough red flags reported in this forum to make me want to sit up and take notice. Let the real hard questioning and scrutiny begin ........

Looking forward to Kimmo's resolution testing and the comparisons with the vast array of previously tested competition ...... :cat:


Chosun :gh:
 
"Dennis (aka Howie) cops a lot of flak on this forum -- and rightly so ...... from his sometimes foggy and vague understanding of optic principles, the flip-flopping and pumping and dumping, to the unrelated and incomprehensible replies to posts - any posts, even his own, just to provide a platform for the verbal spillage of the time - it must be in some way cathartic - coz you sure as eggs wouldn't want that stuff clogging your own mind! ..............

But I have to say, this time I see where Dennis is coming from, and the genuine concerns behind it"

Was that a compliment? FINALLY the "Down-Under Comedian" is beginning to see things my way! "foggy and vague understanding of optic prinicipals" Now really. We all know I am the modern day Isaac Newton when it comes to optics you just don't want to admit it. I taught Henry Link everything he knows. I am glad to see you agree with me on the SF and that it should be approached with caution. I even have people who have tried the SF telling me to keep my SV. Now that is scary. Since I only have $1500 in my SV I think I am going to wait for Henry's definitive star test on the SF to see what is wrong with this critter. Even to a person with deep optical pockets like me $2500 is a pretty good chunk of change for an "Optical Lemon." I don't think Globetrotter is making all this stuff up. Nobody who works for Swarovski would live in a hot climate like Spain.

"Dennis already has a very nice mid-size birding bin in the 8×32 SV --- you might say it's currently the ultimate."

I am starting to like you Chosun. Would you take me birding if I came down there? No Crocs just birds.



So Dennis! You are the modern day Isaac Newton of Optics!3:)3:)3:)

May I call you "Ike!"3:)3:)

Well, tell us Ike, if you please, how is your new Newtonian binocular working out?

Get back to us on this soon but please give us time to stop laughing first! 3:)3:)

Bob
 
Don't listen to a Troll !

I don't believe or take any stock in anything Globetrotter says about Zeiss! |>|
How can Swarovski or Leica be better than Zeiss ?
Zeiss and Schott are a part of the same entity.
No way in hell the Schott glass in a Swarovski or Leica is better than the latest and greatest Schott glass found in the Zeiss HT and SF.
Not a chance!

I was a Swarovski fanboy for 25 years before buying my Zeiss HT.
If I thought Swarovski was better at the time I purchased my HTs, I would now own an SL!
It would not have mattered to me if Swarovski has cost a thousand bucks extra either; I would still own Swarovski!
Heck, actually, I would be quite happy if I had bought an SL anyway.

I believe, most fanboys brains are clouded.
They actually believe the image through their brand of choice is superior because their brain tells them it can't be anything but!
It can't be that much difference when it comes down to Schott vs Schott vs Schott.
 
I don't believe or take any stock in anything Globetrotter says about Zeiss! |>|
How can Swarovski or Leica be better than Zeiss ?
Zeiss and Schott are a part of the same entity.
No way in hell the Schott glass in a Swarovski or Leica is better than the latest and greatest Schott glass found in the Zeiss HT and SF.
Not a chance!

I was a Swarovski fanboy for 25 years before buying my Zeiss HT.
If I thought Swarovski was better at the time I purchased my HTs, I would now own an SL!
It would not have mattered to me if Swarovski has cost a thousand bucks extra either; I would still own Swarovski!
Heck, actually, I would be quite happy if I had bought an SL anyway.

I believe, most fanboys brains are clouded.
They actually believe the image through their brand of choice is superior because their brain tells them it can't be anything but!
It can't be that much difference when it comes down to Schott vs Schott vs Schott.

Theres a lot or trolls here for sure…

It's a shame that allbinos.com is so slow testing new binos.
I definitely could pay a few bucks for those tests.


The final optical results is all in the details and the assembly and quality check.
don't know the process, but I doubt that
swaro (or Zeiss) buys the finished lens elements from Schott?
It's a lot of work before the lenses reach its final finish.

And coatings are specific and applied by zeiss, leica and swaro etc..

Swaro manages to create a flatter transmission curve,
probably due to more layers of coatings?.

I SF have the same sloped transmission curve as FL (and HT),
I'm a bit worried, the T* coatings were good for optimal low light performance
but maybe not the most color accurate.

That said, my FL-colors never bothered me,
but the low light performance is always a joy when you need it; 93%.
 
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I don`t currently own any Alpha roof, I genuinely have no preferred brand, I was very excited about the arrival of the SF into the fray.

I`v only tried two examples, there is no question that the central resolution is stellar, the balance in the hand is ahead of the pack, it`s a new direction.

My main concern is with the periphery of the view, the 10 had a distinct blue circle at the very edge, more on the left, it would`nt go away.

The 8 was soft at the far right edge, less so at the left edge, no blue fringe.

Two examples, one persons opinion not out to trash the SF, just given to further the discussion about an exciting new optic.
 
Globetrotter,

Are you talking about astigmatism in the center of the field? Did you control for the possibility of the astigmatism coming from your eyes as looking at stars through an 8x42 will possibly have your eyes using a full 5mm of pupil size.

Kimmo

Hi

Yes i am talking about astigmatism in the center field,i swap both eyes with both barrels of my sf getting same result.

Fortunately my eyes are ok.;)

And this was the best unit of 5 when i bought it.
 
And so, Globetrotter appeared here in Bird Forum on Jan. 13th, reporting from Madrid; and in 15 short posts he destroyed the reputation of Zeiss's flagship binocular; the 8x42SF!

Let us bury it now and be done with it! :gn:

Bob

Dear Ceasar.

Yes i am new on this forum but i was following it since few years ago and also other web sites as cloudy nights, allbinos, binomania etc etc.

At 12 years old i had my first bin, Carl zeiss jena 7x50 jenopten. Later on the 12x50 nobilem special, 10x56 design selection were added to my collection.

A 10x40 BGAT and Zeiss oberkochen 10x50 special edition 25 series with its 130mts of field of view are the jewels of my collection.

So anyone doubts that I do not like zeiss ?

I am not trying to destroy Zeiss reputation i am very worry about Zeiss but increasingly they fall behind the competition.

Optics probably are fine when are design by optical engineers, aside for astigmatism, and for sure they get a very nice optical results on his 3D Autocad design computer programs......but the weak point for the is the final assembly.
 
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Dear Ceasar.

Yes i am new on this forum but i was following it since few years ago and also other web sites as cloudy nights, allbinos, binomania etc etc.

At 12 years old i had my first bin, Carl zeiss jena 7x50 jenopten. Later on the 12x50 nobilem special, 10x56 design selection were added to my collection.

A 10x40 BGAT and Zeiss oberkochen 10x50 special edition 25 series with its 130mts of field of view are the jewels of my collection.

So anyone doubts that I do not like zeiss ?

I am not trying to destroy Zeiss reputation i am very worry about Zeiss but increasingly they fall behind the competition.

Optics probably are fine when are design by optical engineers, aside for astigmatism, and for sure they get a very nice optical results on his 3D Autocad design computer programs......but the weak point for the is the final assembly.

GT,

Don't take it personal what BF'ers insinuate or plain tell:smoke:.

I am confused by the term 3D Autocad Design Computer THEY use.
This is an area I am totally unfamiliary with. What do you exactly mean by that remark? I what context do I have to see that with your other remarks.

Jan
 
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