-
Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.
Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
Bird Sounds Apps in support of books not in English (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter MJB
- Start date
Wouldn't you always be able to take the scientific name from the field guide? Then I think this would work: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/aves-vox-bird-songs-bird-calls/id791505020?mt=8
Niels
Niels
MJB
Well-known member
That's helpful, Niels, but to appeal to birders of any nation nowadays in Europe, dealing with Latin instead of their own language would put them off buying, in my opinion.
MJB
Two comments: using scientific names have in my experience been a lot more natural for southern and eastern European birders that I have interacted with than it has been for me and other NW Europeans.
Secondly, I actually only got around to download the app yesterday. There is a payment option built in, and one of the additions for the pro version seems to be additional languages being supported.
Niels
Secondly, I actually only got around to download the app yesterday. There is a payment option built in, and one of the additions for the pro version seems to be additional languages being supported.
Niels
MJB
Well-known member
About 20 years ago, scientific names were indeed well-known in northern and Central Europe amongst their birders, but now in my twice-yearly visits to Central Europe (off again on 14 April!), increasingly I find only birders with a biology background are seriously acquainted with them. Perhaps this is due to the many national, regional and local efforts in promoting interest in birds through the preparation of bird lists that emphasise the common names in these languages!
I note the Pro Version and a colleague is examining its potential, so thanks again Niels!
MJB
Scientific names used to be an essentially fixed entity, so there was some motivation to learn them. Now, however, they change more than anything else. So what help are they for international communication these days? It's a real pity. There used to be Phylloscopus warblers. Now, I find the Arctic Warbler still named P. borealis in the Lynx HBW Illustrated Checklist Vol.2. But the newer Birds of the Indonesian Archipelago from the same source now names the bird Arctic Leaf Warbler and Seicercus borealis.. The Willow Warbler and the Yellow-browed Warbler remain in the Phylloscopus genus. One finds lots of such stuff. So are we meant to update annually (or even more often) not only sequences in FGs and other books, but also scientific and common names? It's absolutely crazy and de-motivating. I should add that I not only have a biology background, but also used to be a professional ornithologist for a while.
MJB
Well-known member
Robert, as for Seicercus, here's the IOC Master list 7.1 comment:
"Many species of Phylloscopus leaf warblers belong in Seicercus (Johansson et al 2007, Olsson et al 2005, Boyd TiF website), but we await the results of a new multilocus analysis of the structure of the Phylloscopidae now underway (Alström)."
So we've known changes were likely for 12 years now, but it's taken that amount of time to fund and carry out the multilocus work that should give a more refined understanding. I don't know its estimated publication date, but this case I find sensible and interesting. Maybe Field Guides should carry an anxiety warning: "Recent studies show that the following changes may be adopted: blah blah & blah!". The serious point is that the changes appear out of the blue to birders who haven't been informed, whereas often these changes have had a lengthy and open gestation period.
Perhaps more everyday birders should follow Bird Forum taxonomy pages?:eek!::eek!:
Perhaps your frustration comes from comparable studies on other species groups being published one at a time, thus giving the impression that all species groups are being updated annually. My own impression is that the studies of species-group relationships, both intra- and inter-group, despite the volume of papers, haven't covered a majority of the 10,000+ species, so in that sense, the rate of change is slow, and for some species-groups almost glacially so!
However, I've drifted off-topic yet again...
MJB
.............Perhaps more everyday birders should follow Bird Forum taxonomy pages?:eek!::eek!:
...........However, I've drifted off-topic yet again...
MJB
Thanks for the info. However, my main (and repeated) gripe is that Field Guides are aimed at birders who are not really interested in the taxonomic accuracies. They want to be able to determine the species, and hopefully be able to compile a life list or whatever.
People dealing with the systematics are completely oblivious to the practical needs of most birders. Most of them could care less about the details as long as they can determine the species. Seicercus or Phylloscopus is completely beside the point. The only time when it might be of interest is when you wonder whether an Arctic Leaf Warbler is the same as an Arctic Warbler. And when you then discover two different generic names, the confusion is simply enhanced.
I'm at the point where I wonder whether I might ever manage to compile a reasonably complete Life List due to the probably many cases that would require considerable detective skills. I recall in some botany books that older scientific names were at least still listed with the respective species. Mostly, or maybe always, such help is missing for birds.
Robert,
Regarding Taxonomy, many birders are interested in the species level decisions, so they will have to take the rest as part of that.
However, another thing I want to point out is that there is help. Recently changed species should be find-able with the search function in the birdforum opus, and avibase has just about any older form you could ever think of listed next to current forms.
Niels
Regarding Taxonomy, many birders are interested in the species level decisions, so they will have to take the rest as part of that.
However, another thing I want to point out is that there is help. Recently changed species should be find-able with the search function in the birdforum opus, and avibase has just about any older form you could ever think of listed next to current forms.
Niels
Thanks Niels for the potential help in the second paragraph.
As for your first part, I think it is not acceptable that one "will have to take the rest as part of that". That's a simple cop-out on the part of taxonomists. Just because I'm also interested in the taxonomic discussions does not mean I have to constantly stumble over all the shortcomings these changes bring in the field.
Add to this that many changes come and go. A particular case in point being the example of New World Vultures that were said to be closely related to storks. Meanwhile, they are back where any sensible FG author would have placed them all along, next to the rest of the raptors. Now if we can get the Falcons back next to the Accipiters!
Last edited:
Similar threads
