for BIF which is better? 1DX of D7 Mk2? (1 Viewer)

assuming price is not an issue. just getting the most 'keepers' and the best IQ.

and the lens of choice is the Canon EF 400mm f4 DO IS II.....which would be hand held mostly. it's only 1 pound heavier than the 100-400 f5.6 Mk2.

a corollary question would be D7 Mk2 with or without the battery grip for most stable pics?

i'm reading and seeing all these excellent BIF pics with the D7 Mk2 and yet i'm drawn to the IQ (low noise-high ISO and FF) of the 1DX. has anyone actually compared the two for BIF?

I did a search to try and find some direct feedback on this subject but came up blank; although there is lots of related info. and I see 1DX prices have dropped quite a bit so they are closer when you start to add the grip to the 7D Mk2....and then the size and weight are closer.

If you can fill the frame with either camera the 1dx will win in IQ and AF speed .

Rob

No question 1DX wins hands down on IQ, high ISO performance, and in my experience AF speed and accuracy but it should as you get what you pay for:

If budget is not an issue then it's the 1DX.
I haven't been able, yet, to set up a proper comparison between the two cameras but I have the 1DX since Nov 2013 and have tried a few 7D2 cameras. The 7D2 is an excellent camera in all respects and is all that most of us need. The 1DX, on the other hand, is probably more than we need - but it is VERY nice to have!
The main advantages of the 1DX over the 7D2 is speed (significantly faster responsiveness, AF, tracking etc etc). ISO - I can't be bothered with NR in post processing, so I keep the ISO to 12800 or less - but if you are willing to do a little NR then higher ISO is well within it's scope. The 7D2 simply won't do that.
Going back to my comment about speed, the 1DX is seriously quick, coupled with it's ISO capabilities has led me to switch off the IS on all my (4) IS lenses simply because the IS slows down the AF/tracking and with the higher usable ISO I simply don't need it.
The downsides are price and reach.
Firstly price, search the web for a UK sourced grey import and the 1DX may not be too pricey.
Secondly "Reach". Smaller sensors do not increase your focal length, they simply narrow your field of view. Couple that with their higher pixel density and you start to get all the comments about loss of reach with full frame cameras. To equal the framing of a 7D2 you will have to crop the heck out of a 1DX image - but the files will stand it. So the difference, in practice, is somewhat less than the 1.6 crop factor would suggest - though there is a difference.
I have attached 2 files for information purposes. The first is the full frame image (1DX and 800 mm F5.6 L IS) and the second is a pretty severe crop of the same image.
NOTE: these images are simply the RAW file, shot in "Standard" mode and scaled for the WEB. They have not been processed or sharpened. The EXIF info should be intact but if you have any queries let me know.

Sorry I for got to mention BIF! If the subject is a reasonable size in the frame and you can keep the AF point on the subject (that's the hard bit!) then expect a very high proportion to be in focus with the 1DX. On slower flying birds, such as a Bittern, if I do my job then I expect all the shots to be sharp - it is just a matter of choosing the very sharpest and the best composition. With small. fast, birds it is a whole new ball game and one area in which I am struggling! Note I use AF case 5 on my 1DX.

johnf3f said:

Sorry I for got to mention BIF! If the subject is a reasonable size in the frame and you can keep the AF point on the subject (that's the hard bit!) then expect a very high proportion to be in focus with the 1DX. On slower flying birds, such as a Bittern, if I do my job then I expect all the shots to be sharp - it is just a matter of choosing the very sharpest and the best composition. With small. fast, birds it is a whole new ball game and one area in which I am struggling! Note I use AF case 5 on my 1DX.

Click to expand...

Great balanced response to the question and valuable to me as well, thank you. What a bird and the cropped image is great. Can I just ask what case you used on the 7D2 for BIF please.

Thanks, Phil

thank you to Rob and Graham for the feedback. my challenge will be filling the lens with BIF to get full advantage of the 1DX.

John, thank you for the detailed comparative feedback and that great cropped image.

I am concerned about capturing the small fast birds but I suppose I need to jump in and work at it regardless of which body I choose. maybe the learning curve for BIF will be easier with the 7D2.

I'm leaning toward the 7D2 as the more sensible alternative but with the price difference narrowing needed some hands on feedback to help with the decision.

I appreciate all the help so far.

hampers said:

Great balanced response to the question and valuable to me as well, thank you. What a bird and the cropped image is great. Can I just ask what case you used on the 7D2 for BIF please.

Thanks, Phil

Click to expand...

The 2 7D2 cameras that I tried were in case 1 and 5 if I remember correctly?! The various cases look similar on the menus of both cameras but I have heard different recommendations compared to the 1DX - sorry not much help there!

johnf3f said:

The 2 7D2 cameras that I tried were in case 1 and 5 if I remember correctly?! The various cases look similar on the menus of both cameras but I have heard different recommendations compared to the 1DX - sorry not much help there!

Click to expand...

Thanks, I've been using 2. Be interesting to know what others use.

Thank you, Phil

For my 1dx and 7dmkII I use single or expand point's case 2 at -1 0 0 I also have focus speed and focus set to equal .
This works quite well for me so I just stick to it ,I have tried other settings but quite honestly non of the cases are going to be spot on for fast moving birds because there are far to many variations size /speed /colour/ of bird then there is contrast of the bird and its flight path this is all before we get into the light on the bird atmospheric condition's distance .

Rob.

GYRob said:

For my 1dx and 7dmkII I use single or expand point's case 2 at -1 0 0 I also have focus speed and focus set to equal .
This works quite well for me so I just stick to it ,I have tried other settings but quite honestly non of the cases are going to be spot on for fast moving birds because there are far to many variations size /speed /colour/ of bird then there is contrast of the bird and its flight path this is all before we get into the light on the bird atmospheric condition's distance .

Rob.

Click to expand...

Thanks Rob, exactly the same for me. Except 0,0,0.

Phil

mlav51 said:

assuming price is not an issue. just getting the most 'keepers' and the best IQ.

and the lens of choice is the Canon EF 400mm f4 DO IS II.....which would be hand held mostly. it's only 1 pound heavier than the 100-400 f5.6 Mk2.

a corollary question would be D7 Mk2 with or without the battery grip for most stable pics?

i'm reading and seeing all these excellent BIF pics with the D7 Mk2 and yet i'm drawn to the IQ (low noise-high ISO and FF) of the 1DX. has anyone actually compared the two for BIF?

I did a search to try and find some direct feedback on this subject but came up blank; although there is lots of related info. and I see 1DX prices have dropped quite a bit so they are closer when you start to add the grip to the 7D Mk2....and then the size and weight are closer.

Click to expand...

I tried 2 different 7d2. First one was back- and frontfocusing randomly. Had it changed. The other one was great for stationary subjects, but I was never pleased with the autofocus for moving targets like BIF. I just didnt have the energy to pursue another focus-issue-replacement so instead I gave up on the 7d2 totally and instead I bought a 5d3 (after having read great things about it here on the forum by Roy and others). I loved the autofocus and the silent shutter mode, but couldnt stand the low fps for BIF. So, it all ended up with me getting the 1dx. And now finally I am happy with regards to the fps and the autofocus. There are things I am not so happy with, but I can live with them. One of them is the weight. The 1dx is very very heavy compared to the 7d2. The pixeldensity is another. Some 18 mp on a fullframe isnt a lot even though it is enough if I fill the fram with the bird. The cost of course is an issue also. I had almost saved enough money to be able to buy my dream lens, the 500/4. But getting the bad 7d2s got me so annoyed, that I felt I just had to go for the 1dx so I could let go of all thoughts of autofocusissues. But now my 500/4-budget is severely reduced, so back to saving again...

I think I was just unlucky with my 2 bad 7d2. Tons of people get tremendous results with the camera, even though there are a few lemons out there. Had I gotten a 7d2 that worked as it is supposed to work I would have kept it and been a happy guy!

If your hand holding and flight photography skills are up to scratch then both will do the job. In fact, you could do it with most mid-range to pro cameras as is.

Not used the 1DX but I find the 7D2 very good for fast little flyers - I use the all 65 points AF mode together with a AI servo case that gives fast AF point switching. All previous Cameras that I have used multiple AF points on could never quite keep up with switching between the AF points but the 7D2 does this remarkable well IMHO. For fast and somewhat erratic small flyers I find this mode on the 7D2 works extremely well. Since getting the Camera I have got several decent shots of small birds in flight including Swallows, something that I have never really managed before in all the years I have been snapping birds. Attached is one I took recently. BTW I also have the 5D3 but for this type of shot it is not as good as the 7D2 IMO. Also the full frame would leave me reach limited most of the time for small birds even though I am shooting a 600mm lens.