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UK - Help Please - Have you seen one of these ? (2 Viewers)

er actually I indexed them about 2 years ago - I only see about 1/5th of the threads these days and there are many more than two examples - I just gave you two.

How many ??

And because of these 'lay Persons' how many birders were able to enjoy the bounty and fruits of this labour ?

Back in the days of decent forums ( no offence Mods ;) ) i.e when UKBirdnet was great ! Myself and a chum were able to identify a Whites Thrush from a strange 'Mistle Thrush' email ( we were sent Photos after a few mails! - I still have it on my wall ! ) two days later we were on the Isle of Lewis enjoying stonking views of this Mega - and a great time was had by all - So I know it can happen , but this along with the LBM are the only times that I am aware of in recent British History where this has occurred and people were able to get along and see the bird in Question. (Sora/Spot Crake on Scilly Aside ;)) So my original Split premise still stands - and just cos its in a different forum will not make it any less likely to go astray as there will always be 'Expert Id Gurus' swaggering around , eager to get the first post ! So we are covered ;)

Si
 
pity that thread sort of died out, i thouht you were on the right lines with a fulvetta/flycatcher type.
Pfff, that one was impossible.

Splitting the threads wouldn't be a good idea.

I usually only check if threads haven't been answered nowadays (or the ones in exotic locations), which decreases the chance of discovering a Long-billed Murrelet I suppose... but I'm working harder than I used too as well, hahaha!
 
er actually I indexed them about 2 years ago - I only see about 1/5th of the threads these days and there are many more than two examples - I just gave you two.

Personally I can't see the point in splitting (mind you I was always a lumper) I can see a point in the original poster, where they are a more experienced birder, being more specific in the title of their threads. Help I'm stuck on an abberant large pipit.... as opposed to what is this? Or what happened to the grey tongue on this apparent micahellis....


I do sometimes bring myself to edit titles so the people who can't be arsed wading through domestic wildfowl know there is something challenging. Like an unidentified potentially new for science job... which reminds me, whatever happened to that Japanese warbler type thing.

Another very fresh example no?:

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=101109

Wonder what else goes unoticed in Greece...
 
Warning: the following statement is blasphemous. Somewhere in this thread, comments were made about how incredulous it was that birders were counting birds that had been identified for them on birdforum. I would never be able to count something like that myself. But not everyone is like me. Folks will count whatever they want, whether it be the number of yellow cars they see on their way to work, the number of pies they ate in a week, or the number of bird species they've photographed. They're not in competition with ID oriented twitchers, nor are they working on a competitive country list. So should it really bug us what they count?

Hi Chris,

I never saw comments like this on the thread. I didn’t realize it wasn’t ok to list birds that had been identified here. Now I’m really sorry I posted anything:-O; I should have shelved my notes and photos until I could get my own research materials. I was just so excited about my new finds in a new part of the world. A few of the birds I posted represented quite a few hours birding in hot, primitive conditions. I will go back and check all I had identified on here and remove them from my newly finished life list. I will re-date birds that I have seen again and identified myself upon seeing them. I am sorry to lose the Short-toed Eagle. I had a touch of sun/heat stroke after that excursion. :C My mind doesn’t acknowledge that I am now old and fat, not young and athletic and I shouldn’t push so hard. I will lose some others too, but no biggy. I lost a lot when I gave my Indonesian field guide to a young student who was with the crew who took us to see the Orangu-tangs ( I had the species I had seen checked off in the book and I guess I failed to copy them because I can’t find a list). I have only put birds I was 100% certain about on my list, and I don’t want any kind of taint on my list. I have found and identified over 500 birds by myself (well, that’s not true—my husband was with me a few of my birding days).

I seems strange that after finding the birds I can’t list them because of the BF id, yet there doesn’t seem to be a problem with 2 or 3 or 30 birders going out and all ticking off something that one of them has pointed out and identified. The first time I read, “I found the bird myself” on this forum, I laughed; that was how I thought a person found birds. You say that you would never list a bird that was identified here. Now that you’ve pointed it out, I guess I agree. I should only list birds that I find and I i.d. However, I want to point out that I would never tick a bird that was pointed out to me by a guide I had hired. I have been on two guided bird trips. One was in Clarendon, Arkansas when I went to hear the IBWO group. A small tour of some local sites was offered and my husband and I signed up; the other was here, in Italy. I went on the Italian one because I couldn’t get into the nature area without one (no lifers were pointed out on that day). While we were on the Arkansas bird tour, a yellow-billed cuckoo and a prothonotary warbler were pointed out. I didn’t put those on my life list because it felt like cheating to me. I really didn’t feel that way about the id’s on BF because I found the birds I posted and if I’d had books, I would have researched myself like I’d always done.

I hope no one reads this and puts the wrong tone to it. I am a self-taught, solitary birder with a lot to learn. I’m not trying to be controversial or belligerent. I want to follow excepted rules; it’s just that some of them don’t seem balanced. And I thought rugby rules were hard to follow!
 
I reckon there is a world of difference between writing notes on a bird (which you could have used to identify the bird later had you had the relevant literature etc.) and just pointing a camera at it and asking someone else what it is.
 
I reckon there is a world of difference between writing notes on a bird (which you could have used to identify the bird later had you had the relevant literature etc.) and just pointing a camera at it and asking someone else what it is.
Thanks, Jane.
 
As already stated I don't have a problem with easy Ids, IMO it's not as if the forum is snowed under with them, although this may change as membership grows.

What does bug is when people are wrongly labelled as 'experts' and therefore there answer is definitive and others simply agree and say "lesson learned" when I doubt very much they have. ;)
 
Hi Peregrinator .

I just read your last post. If I were to follow you in not keeping birds found with a guide I would probably lose a fifth of my list. You found birds, you list them. Don't feel they are any less valid because you didn't id them. Thats like a Twitcher not ticking a bird because they didn't find it.
I was on a guided tour in Spain some time back, one of the participants told me that on a guided tour in the Amazon "the guide told me we saw 300 species today" I asked him how many birds on his lifelist, he replied "Oh I don't do that. No he didn't, his non birding wife did, how do you spell that? she would ask when the guide named a bird. This man didn't use bins. Just a camera with a lens as big as his leg. If he started his obsession on a different day he would probably have the greatest collection of spoons or thimbles or something else. Enjoy making your list, as long as the bird and you were there at the same time it counts.

Twite.
 
Leave them all in one subforum and stop being so snooty.

I agree!
If the subforum were to be split, I can think of at least one much more useful way to split it; by geography.
Many posters forget to include 'country of sighting' in the title of the thread. People like me who have virtually no experience of birds outside UK and Ireland end up wasting time looking at a thread like 'Hawk i.d., please, Bristol' only to find out its Bristol, Jamaica or Bristol, Namibia. But anyway, this doesn't matter really. Its only a few seconds of my life wasted. If I look at a thread and see a thumbnail of a Jackdaw which someone can't identify (and it wasn't even one with albino patches!), I can either read on or click my mouse and go somewhere else!
Keep on posting those photos of garden birds- I love 'em!
 
Warning - Long, but hopefully reasoned...

Leave them all in one subforum and stop being so snooty.

I don't see it as being snooty at all. Let's try and leave the emotion behind for a minute and try to take a reasoned look at the two themes in the thread:

Firstly, let’s acknowledge that everyone uses BirdForum in different ways. There are hundreds of different forums and thousands of actives threads at any one time, but I’d wager that most people just dip into the areas that interest them

So, I’m personally not interested in the “Computers and The Internet” section, nor the “Alabama” sub-forum in the USA area, or the “Pentax Binocular” threads, but there are there if I ever want them, and I’m sure other people must use them all the time.

To be honest, the same thing is going on here. Some people want to debate complex ID’s, others want a common bird identified for them. Why not make the forums more intuitive, efficient and reflect the needs of all users better? If its worth splitting “Garden Birds, Bird Feeding & Nestboxes” into three sub-forums, why not the ID Q&A area?

The second theme is different, and has run through many posts, and is probably the more ‘emotive’ on. Many “experienced” birders in the UK feel at the moment that birding in the UK is being “dumbed down”, that fieldcraft isn’t what it just to be, that people new to the hobby don’t want to learn but want to run before they can walk, that no one does an apprenticeship anymore and that the digital camera has become not an asset to birding but a liability that makes people lazy and prevents them really looking at birds anymore. Before anyone shoots the messanger, I'm just saying what I keep hearing.

Of course, this view might be deemed elitist, and it really should be for everyone who finds an interest in wild birdlife to enjoy our great hobby in whatever way they want to. However, the frustration quoted above does exist, it manifests itself on bird reserves and at twitches up and down the country, and occasionally it manifests itself here, on these threads in this forum. Should it? Usually not. Will it continue to if nothing changes? Undoubtedly, yes.

Comments drawn out of this frustration keep coming up from time to time, and when they do someone usually ends up getting offended. Again, the answer to this is to split the ID Q&A forums, to enable people with different views, wants and levels of knowledge to find what they are looking for, rather than setting the bar for everything at the lowest common denominator. As far as I can see, this discussion will keep happening for the above two reasons, unless a really simple change is made to split the forums; it’s not asking too much.
 
The only problem I can see with a split ID area is if the poster has no idea of what the species is or how rare how will they know what section to post to?

I suppose some of the obvious ones could be moved farly swiftly and if nothing else I think the "funny" ducks should definately have its own split.

John
 
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