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Golden Pheasants (1 Viewer)

J

Julian Thomas

Well-known member
Hi,
I'm due to be up in Thetford for a BTO meeting on 20th and was planning to get some birding in too. I know Wolferton triangle seems to be the most reliable site for Golden Pheasants again at the moment, but was wondering if Wayland Wood or any of the old Thetford Forest sites are still any good for the species, please?

Any other gen for the Brecks also gratefully received.

Thanks
Julian
 
Julian Thomas said:
Hi,
I'm due to be up in Thetford for a BTO meeting on 20th and was planning to get some birding in too. I know Wolferton triangle seems to be the most reliable site for Golden Pheasants again at the moment, but was wondering if Wayland Wood or any of the old Thetford Forest sites are still any good for the species, please?

Any other gen for the Brecks also gratefully received.

Thanks
Julian
Click to expand...

Lee Evans saw 10 at a site in the Suffolk Brecks this week, so he might be worth an ask! I think that there are a few still in Norfolk, but on private or inaccessable sites, hence the lack of replies.
 
Julian Thomas said:
Hi,
I'm due to be up in Thetford for a BTO meeting on 20th and was planning to get some birding in too. I know Wolferton triangle seems to be the most reliable site for Golden Pheasants again at the moment, but was wondering if Wayland Wood or any of the old Thetford Forest sites are still any good for the species, please?

Any other gen for the Brecks also gratefully received.

Thanks
Julian
Click to expand...


We saw 4 golden pheasant at Wolferton Sunday 21st. Stay in your car and just drive round the triangle. The one we saw first was on the grass verge and slowly wandered through the foliage where we picked out another 3 male birds.

Sandra
 
re driving round slowly .....

I would suggest that driving round the triangle in circuits is not the best way to try and view the pheasants as they are very susceptable to being flushed back into cover by traffic.Better to park up and either view from a fixed point on the grass verge, or to view back up towards the main road from the scissors car park area, where the road goes down to Dersingham Bog. Ray Roche
 
It always makes me chuckle when the debate about ticking Wolferton GP's comes up - where are the genuinely wild non introduced populations? :)
 
Several populations of Golden Pheasant were introduced alongside Lady Amherst's with which they interbred. Most of these locations lost their Lady A's and the remaining Goldies continued to breed and slowly the Lady A genes were diluted to the point that many birds look/ed just like Golden Ph with some retaining some discernible features of Lady A (which apparently can just simply crop up/reoccur in individuals of these cross bred populations. Wolferton has long been known to contain cross bred birds (I've never seen a pure bird there myself).

Other populations were released alone so remained pure. Wayland Wood, as far as I am aware, has never had cross bred birds reported.

But what you tick is up to you! But if you tick crossbred pheasants does it means your list will bulge with ayhtya hybrids too?
 
I only said that because I never see them !!
Someone reported 4 males there the other day, they're never bloody there when I am.
Rob - if you go along those lines can I year tick the sculthopre birds, just as plastic as the rest fo them

I guess at the end of the day most of us aren't going to see a truely wild golden pheasant in China, so we have to argue about the dwindling populations in this country.

Steve - was Lady A's on the norfolk list once apon a time, did it occur on the sandringham estate ?

god I'm bored !! Bring on the spring
 
stu_white said:
Steve - was Lady A's on the norfolk list once apon a time, did it occur on the sandringham estate ?

god I'm bored !! Bring on the spring
Click to expand...

Lady Amherst's Pheasant was on the Norfolk list between 1973 & 1986, on the basis of a few breeding records (not at Sandringham). After that it was deleted, presumably because there were no self-supporting populations.

I have wondered for a while whether anyone ever saw/knew of Lady Amherst's Pheasants at Sandringham, because there is a marked difference between hybrid birds and inbred birds. A possibility is that the original released birds were all/mostly hybrids and just reverted to almost Golden Pheasant type.

I second the call for spring, or even just a stray Lesser Scaup this way B :)
 
Steve Dudley said:
Several populations of Golden Pheasant were introduced alongside Lady Amherst's with which they interbred. Most of these locations lost their Lady A's and the remaining Goldies continued to breed and slowly the Lady A genes were diluted to the point that many birds look/ed just like Golden Ph with some retaining some discernible features of Lady A (which apparently can just simply crop up/reoccur in individuals of these cross bred populations. Wolferton has long been known to contain cross bred birds (I've never seen a pure bird there myself).

Other populations were released alone so remained pure. Wayland Wood, as far as I am aware, has never had cross bred birds reported.

But what you tick is up to you! But if you tick crossbred pheasants does it means your list will bulge with ayhtya hybrids too?
Click to expand...

Is this true in the case of the Wolferton birds and all var. obscurus birds? Having talked to several birders, including 'hybrid and/or pheasant enthusiasts' and having watched and listened to the birds in the area I couldn't really make out any other suggestion of hybridisation other than the dark throat and considered that this mutation was therefore more likely to be simply a result of the narrowing gene pool and thus a nautral mutation, especially considering that small number of birds now in this small area and the fact I can trace no Lady A Pheasants being released in the area. Some more/similar thoughts (summarised) here http://connorsbirdingsite.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2009-05-02T15:38:00+01:00 and here http://www.gobirding.eu/Photos/GoldenPheasant.php (with photos). I'd appreciate any more thoughts on this.

EDIT: Above post covers some of the points (posted at same time)
 
Is this a real term "variation obscurus " a little dicky bird told me it was made up by someone who used to work at one of the bird information services as a bit of a joke ?
 
stu_white said:
Is this a real term "variation obscurus " a little dicky bird told me it was made up by someone who used to work at one of the bird information services as a bit of a joke ?
Click to expand...

Well Stu, I guess it was made up by someone sometime and I don't know when or why, but it's used in BWP so I think it pre-dates most of the bird information services.
 
There are a couple of interesting, and very good, photos on Birdguides this week of both Golden and LA Pheasants. The Golden Pheasant is taken at Sculthorpe, it has dark patches extending from the cape.

The LA is at an undisclosed site on the same date.... ;) The LA pheasant looks pretty smart. Any info or PM on that would be appreciated, as long as its not in an enclosure!

On a slightly seperate point regarding the Golden Ps at Wolferton, I saw a 'pure' one there quite a few years ago, but at the time I don't recall any mention of LA pheasants in the area. Maybe that was because LA weren't such a big deal then, but why are the dark throats/patches at this site attributed to hybridisation with LA rather than Common Pheasant? The dark patches don't extend right down to the breast do they? Maybe next time I'm heading up to Norfolk I will turn left and have another look!
 
Steve Dudley said:
Several populations of Golden Pheasant were introduced alongside Lady Amherst's with which they interbred. Most of these locations lost their Lady A's and the remaining Goldies continued to breed and slowly the Lady A genes were diluted to the point that many birds look/ed just like Golden Ph with some retaining some discernible features of Lady A (which apparently can just simply crop up/reoccur in individuals of these cross bred populations. Wolferton has long been known to contain cross bred birds (I've never seen a pure bird there myself).

Other populations were released alone so remained pure. Wayland Wood, as far as I am aware, has never had cross bred birds reported.
Click to expand...

I'm far from convinced that the black throats have anything to do with hybridisation. Sure, the two species hybridise readily in captivity and there's no reason to think they wouldn't in the wild if they occurred together. It's also not unreasonable to think that a second or subsequent generation hybrid might look predominantly like a Golden Pheasant but retain the dark throat of Lady Amherst's Pheasant.

Surely there is a better explanation. I'm no geneticist so apologies if I get this slightly wrong, but as I understand it two different but closely related species may share some of the same genes (inherited from a common ancestor perhaps), but in one species these may be expressed while in the other they may be suppressed. In other words both species may have the genes that could result in a dark throat but only one (normally) shows the dark throat. Mutation, which may result from inbreeding, may result in the the dark throat appearing when normally it wouldn't. This would explain why it is found mainly in captive birds and in small feral populations, in other words where there is likely to be a high incidence of inbreeding.

Supporting this hypothesis is the fact that the remaining Breckland birds now seem to be heading the same way. The male I saw in the Brecks (sorry, the site is sensitive so no details) last spring clearly showed a dark throat, albeit perhaps not as dark as the Wolferton birds. Even one I photographed in Wayland Wood (as you'll see from the link Connor kindly supplied) shows a slightly darker throat and face compared with the birds I photographed on Tresco - I guess this isolated population had already started to become inbred. It seems to me that any feral population that has declined to a level where substantial inbreeding is likely to occur is likely to begin showing dark-throated birds. If I'm right (and I don't claim that my evidence is extensive enough to be sure) then this would seem to rule out hybridisation as a factor.
 
I have read that many of the captive Golden Pheasants have Lady Amherst's Pheasant blood in them .

The following notes lifted from pheasant breeding websites might be useful.

When purchasing adult goldens, please observe the adult male for signs of Amherst blood. The male will have the following if crossed: 1.) Any trace of red in the crest besides that at the very tip, 2.) Any traces of green in the breast, 3.) Red in the lower back or rump, 4.) Large size, 5.) Legs dark. A Golden hen should be small, also with yellow legs and no tinge of red in the crown. Immature goldens are much lighter in the overall color when compared to an Amherst, and of course, the legs will be yellow.

Being an avicultural subject for so long, there is no doubt that several mutations have been developed over the years. I have serious doubt of several of the new mutations (believe many were used by crossing with Amherst) and have only included a few brief descriptions of the mutations that have been established for several years. One mutation, the Yellow Golden, is almost as common as the wild Golden in aviculture and I have provided a link with more information.

http://www.gbwf.org/pheasants/golden.html

The Golden Pheasant is commonly found in zoos and aviaries, but often as impure specimens that have the similar Lady Amherst's Pheasant in their lineage. The birds illustrated herein are typical. For example, one picture below shows subtle signs of a hybrid in the dark face, and in the yellow extending into what should be a pure dark red flank (where in the Amherst, the white flank would meet the green breast feathers in this area).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Pheasant
 
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I read once that in general Golden were crossed with LAs since 19. century, and almost all captive and wild birds in Europe are hybrids. I wonder if it true.

Not that one must care. ;) B :)
 
Would be nice to see the throat patch!

stu_white said:
I only said that because I never see them !!
Someone reported 4 males there the other day, they're never b***** there when I am.
Click to expand...


Glad I am not the only one to consistently dip the golden pheasants.

Other than a bird under the rhodos I have never seen a Wolferton goldie! My view of that bird was mainly its rear end!
 
I have often seen golden pheasants along the Wolverton road after a nights heavy rain has just stopped at dawn and the birds are on the roadside verge away from the dripping bushes.
 
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