New Swarovski binoculars soon (1 Viewer)

Omid · Oct 21, 2008

Andreas_P said:
The decision was very difficult, especially as we have to disappoint many customers who now need to wait for another year. Sorry for that. But this decision had to be taken to follow our principles. To offer highest quality in each single product leaving the factory is part of our philosophy and strategy.

... another reason for that quite long delay is, that we don't want to deliver just a few 100 pieces to customers (as assumed by Arran from Belgium). We want to guarantee a smooth launch with short shipping times to all our dealers and customers worldwide.

It is wonderful that a representative from Sowarovski has taken the effort to respond to the concerns posted here in this forum. I'd personally thank Mr. Pittl for providing the official Swarovski comment above. However, I'd still find it hard to buy the "manufacturing issue" argument.

If we re-write Mr. Pittle's comment in mp3 format, it boils down to this:

"There was a huge market for these new EL's. We din't feel right to ship just a few hundred and make the rest wait. So we decided to stop shipping all together and make everybody wait!"

To me, this is a rather lame excuse. There is always a "waiting list" when a new Ferrari model is introduced. Have you have ever heard Ferrari or Aston Martin postponing the production a new model because they could not keep up with the demand?!! The very existence of such waiting periods enhances the image of luxury products so sometimes they are created artificially by deliberately slowing down the sales.

I think the suspicions regarding the banking crisis are entirely credible. Without a reasonable-interest loan it would not be possible to manufacture these items profitably. It is also very clear that in the current economic situation there is no market for a $3000 binocular which "might be" marginally better than the current $1800 models. Such grossly overpriced status symbol would have been highly welcome by the Lehman Brothers' Bird Watchers Club a few months ago but alas...

All the same Swarovsky is very respectable company and their decision to defer the lunch of the new ELs is a perfectly sound business decision. What we see here is how a perfectly stable and well-managed company is being damaged by the combination of a highly-integrated world economy plus one region of that economy being (criminally?) mismanaged.

stabor · Oct 21, 2008

Omid said:
However, I'd still find it hard to buy the "manufacturing issue" argument.

[...] There is always a "waiting list" when a new Ferrari model is introduced. Have you have ever heard Ferrari or Aston Martin postponing the production a new model because they could not keep up with the demand?!!

It's normal for a company to manufacture a limited number of prototypes of a new design (by hand, at great expense) before testing the feasibility of mass-producing the same design at the target cost. Swarovski have candidly admitted that the production test didn't go well in this case. I suppose they could sell the few hundred handmade prototypes while they're retooling, but the price would have to be much higher than advertised. People already take them to task for nosebleed pricing; how can they win? There's a conspiracy theory for everything, but life is short ...

Sancho · Oct 21, 2008

stabor said:
I suppose they could sell the few hundred handmade prototypes while they're retooling, but the price would have to be much higher than advertised.

If they want to re-coup some of their R&D costs in the meantime, I´d be quite happy to take one of their 8.5x42 HD/EL handmade prototypes. I´d even write a favourable review someplace and be happy to give them, oh, I don´t know, 200 euro and my dog....? (He´s a very smart dog).

Leif · Oct 21, 2008

Omid said:
However, I'd still find it hard to buy the "manufacturing issue" argument.

Well, the statement is clear and unambiguous, with a direct denial that the economic situation is an issue, so I don't think we can do anything but accept it at face value. And it shows the importance of the views of you lot.

ceasar · Oct 22, 2008

I would guess that the category "All of the above" applies here. Also there also may be quite a few of the old models remaining in Swarovski dealer's inventories. It might take some time to sell these down. It seems to me that Swarovski, unlike Leica and Nikon, is reluctant to sell older models at a discount when new upgrades are about to replace them. When Leica went from the Trinovid to the Ultravid there were good deals all over the place. It's not hard to find great bargains now on Nikon's LX L. Anyway, there doesn't seem to be any pressing reason for them to rush these new models into production.

Bob

ThoLa · Oct 22, 2008

Omid said:
To me, this is a rather lame excuse. There is always a "waiting list" when a new Ferrari model is introduced. Have you have ever heard Ferrari or Aston Martin postponing the production a new model because they could not keep up with the demand?!!

To me this is a rather lame argumentation. Many real luxury products are endowed with an "extra value" because the number of items is limited to a number below potential demand from the beginning. This is not the case here. The "comparision" is skewed.

Omid said:
I think the suspicions regarding the banking crisis are entirely credible.

I think the suspicions regarding a connection to the banking crisis are entirely incredible. First of all there is AGAIN no trace of evidence for your suspicion. Secondly this accusation expresses a completely undeserved lack of respect for a highly welcome official statement from the company in question.

Where are the "top" bankers who burnt billions and billions and who now stand up in public to admit and explain their mistakes?

Omid said:
It is also very clear that in the current economic situation there is no market for a $3000 binocular which "might be" marginally better than the current $1800 models.

It is also very clear that in the current economic situation there just as many rich people who happily continue to drive their Porsches, have time to burn in the yacht club when the sun shines, and carry plenty of cash to buy little fun items such as expensive binoculars.

Omid said:
What we see here is how a perfectly stable and well-managed company is being damaged by the combination of a highly-integrated world economy plus one region of that economy being (criminally?) mismanaged.

When you see all these miraculous things with your uniquely capable clairvoyant X-ray eyes you are very likely not in need of binoculars at all.

Help improve this forum by sticking to facts!

T

ThoLa · Oct 22, 2008

Sancho said:
... oh, I don´t know, 200 euro and my dog....? (He´s a very smart dog).

Can he sniff holes in binoculars?

Wonders
Tom Cat

ThoLa · Oct 22, 2008

Andreas_P said:
Dear all
(...)
Andreas Pittl
SWAROVSKI OPTIK KG

Dear Mr. Pittl!
I should like think you on behalf of all the sensible readers and contributors of this forum for your enlightening message. It is highly welcomed and clarifies for many Swarovski fans and friends a situation that for a short while had become in fact seriously confusing.

Personally, I am bound to wait then, as I think that the first binocular with an image free of (ugly) distorsions is indeed a major improvement worth waiting for.

I should also like to take this opportunity to forward a suggestion that you may read as an expression of a deep-felt desire:
While there is a time lag now until the new ELs will be released I would like to strongly encourage you and your team and colleagues to use the interim to press ahead with the design and hopefully the production in parallel of the 32 mm version of the Swarovision version, too.

Being no engineer, I have no idea how much of an effort the down-scaling for the smaller version is. But if the entire manufacturing process is to be overhauled and redesigned, maybe this provides an opportunity to integrate these processes and close a potential time gap for the introduction of these wonderful, highly mobile models which, according to my very personal and therefore very limited opinion are unsurpassed by anything else "out there".

With best wishes to Austria,
Thomas

Sancho · Oct 22, 2008

ThoLa said:
Dear Mr. Pittl!
I should like think you on behalf of all the sensible readers and contributors of this forum for your enlightening message. It is highly welcomed and clarifies for many Swarovski fans and friends a situation that for a short while had become in fact seriously confusing.............

With best wishes to Austria,
Thomas

Okay, I´m going to go out on a limb here. I´m sure Andreas is a very nice chap, and the following is in no way intended as a criticism of him. But he represents a luxury-goods corporation that depends on the custom of folk like me, folk who work hard for their salaries and want to buy the best binoculars within their means.
I´ve spent thousands of euro on Swarovski products (and accessories) over the years, and I´ve repeatedly recommended their products and aftersales service here on BF and to friends buying binoculars. (This "word-of-mouth" endorsement is free...

). But an explanation as to the release-delay took a long time coming. (Also, whatever one´s opinion of Paul Godolphin´s concerns some years back, he made a valid enquiry as to a curious design-feature, and in frustration I made the same enquiry....neither of us received an answer).
Now bear with me on this.....Swarovski wants to sell us things. It´s that simple. We´re the customers. If my butcher told me that he would have nice T-bone steaks next Thursday, and I went to buy them, I´d expect him to give me a reason if they weren´t ready, not wait two months to tell me why. Swarovski simply removed their advertisements from the net and we´ve only got an explanation now, when concerns, valid or otherwise, as to, a) production and engineering processes and b) economic feasibility, were raised on this thread. As former and possibly future Swarovski customers, I think we deserve better. Although Andreas´explanation is welcome, I don´t feel flattered at receiving it, I feel I shouldn´t have had to wait so long. Let´s face it, to Swarovski Optics they´re business. But to me, they´re only binoculars. And I have too many already (including very nice Swarovski ones.....) Now as Swaro don´t seem to be accepting "Dash" in part-payment for bins, I´m going to take him for a walk. (Perhaps I´ll offer him to Nikon instead...)

stabor · Oct 22, 2008

Well, they weren't obliged to tell us anything, and we can't expect them to spend much time interacting with fan clubs. I'm grateful for the straightforward statements that we got, in a time of some confusion and embarrassment for the company. The upside is, we've got that much more time to save up.

Sancho · Oct 22, 2008

stabor said:
Well, they weren't obliged to tell us anything, and we can't expect them to spend much time interacting with fan clubs.

Good point. Except we´re not a "Fan Club", and they´re not Rock Stars...they´re Sellers of Optics. And we´re birders interested in binoculars, of which there are alternatives (only one pair of binoculars in my current armoury is a Swaro). No producer is "obliged" to tell prospective customers anything, really...but there are marketing implications to keeping schtum. If all goes well, it may add "allure". It may also frustrate and annoy, particularly when things don´t go well. (And remember that I´m in Yourp, and am recently intrigued to find that you guys Stateside are paying considerably less for your Swaros than we are...) Happy Birding!:t:

kabsetz · Oct 23, 2008

Sancho,

When discussing the public relations and information policy of Swarovski, we should perhaps bear in mind that we don't know at what point and through what kind of a process did they end up with the decision to postpone delivery by as long as they now have announced. For your butcher to have the T-bone steaks, all he needs is for someone to slaughter the bull, and if the first supplier short-handed him he'll soon find another. The situation is quite different for Swaro unexpectedly finding that the product coming off of their assembly line does not meet specifications. Releasing a quick press release stating that there is a delay and further information will be forthcoming is about the only thing you could do when you don't yet know what gives and what the fix is going to be. Now they seem to have opted for keeping us in suspense for a bit longer and only informing us when they have reached the decision about what to do.

Let's be patient and perhaps cut down on our T-bone consumption for a year in order to save up for the binoculars when they come.

Kimmo

oleaf · Oct 23, 2008

Lets see... Swarovski is delaying their new bin because of a manufacturing issue or problem. They have already positioned this bin at the top of the heap... the best... period.

What's the alternative. Release a bin that has known problems? Only to be recalled or returned or not even purchased in the first place? Let the customer return it if they don't like it. Sure... that's good business!

Remember the stuttering focusing knob on Leica? Oh... it's a design feature, don't worry about that. I had a dealer tell me this! Sure buddy.

I don't think Swarovski is that kind of company. I'd cut them some big slack. They treat their customers pretty well. And I bet they are embarrassed about this problem.
(I own nothing from Swarovski)

Really this happens in all product markets. It's just when the leaders delay things the mobs get angry. Off with their heads!

Cheers

Sancho · Oct 23, 2008

Okay, guys, I´ll delay my T-bone consumption, save for a while, and cut them some slack....

I´m assuming, of course, that I´ll be cut some slack in the pricing "structure" and that when finally released we´ll pay the same in Yourp as our U.S. fellow birders do....otherwise, I´ll just have to consider a pair of Nikon EDG (Sancho exits in a huff, nose in the air)....darn, they´re delayed too! What´s a binaholic to do, go birding or something?!?

Best wishes guys, thanks for bringing me down off that soap-box, it was getting lonely up there.....

PYRTLE · Oct 23, 2008

Sancho said:
I´ll just have to consider a pair of Nikon EDG (Sancho exits in a huff, nose in the air)....darn, they´re delayed too!

Any official statement from Nikon? - haven't seen one yet explaining the delay and their 2008 / 2009 Sports OPTICS brochure doesn't mention them in any form.

Sancho, I've had and taken the opportunity to visit Swarovski Optik....one of the many facts I learned about was that the parent company and Swarovski family has fingers in many pies! Not only optics but as you are aware crystal,also highways reflective materials, engineering tools amongst others. However they do take the optics side of things extremely seriously and this complete review of the binocular in every aspect is exactly what I would expect of them. (By the way I do use a Swarovski scope alongside my Leica, Zeiss and Nikon bins, impartiality rules.).
Yes, they are outputting rifle scopes, magnesium telescopes, ELs and SLCs but will do whatever it takes to get their new EL binocular correct. Hopefully, by then the world economic situation may have improved, but I doubt prices will fall. Meanwhile we've the new Leica scopes to put under scrutiny!
Cheers, Pyrtle

Sancho · Oct 23, 2008

PYRTLE said:
Sancho said:

I´ll just have to consider a pair of Nikon EDG (Sancho exits in a huff, nose in the air)....darn, they´re delayed too!

Any official statement from Nikon? - haven't seen one yet explaining the delay and their 2008 / 2009 Sports OPTICS brochure doesn't mention them in any form.

Sancho, I've had and taken the opportunity to visit Swarovski Optik....one of the many facts I learned about was that the parent company and Swarovski family has fingers in many pies! Not only optics but as you are aware crystal,also highways reflective materials, engineering tools amongst others. However they do take the optics side of things extremely seriously and this complete review of the binocular in every aspect is exactly what I would expect of them. (By the way I do use a Swarovski scope alongside my Leica, Zeiss and Nikon bins, impartiality rules.).
Yes, they are outputting rifle scopes, magnesium telescopes, ELs and SLCs but will do whatever it takes to get their new EL binocular correct. Hopefully, by then the world economic situation may have improved, but I doubt prices will fall. Meanwhile we've the new Leica scopes to put under scrutiny!
Cheers, Pyrtle

Click to expand...

Thanks Pyrtle! Wow, highway reflective materials....I´m a huge fan of same, can´t understand why we waste so much energy on lighting car-less roads all night, when high-quality cat´s eyes, etc. guide us adequately. But I digress...my Unresolved-Oedipal-Issue Rant about the HD/EL´s over, I searched for news on the EDG´s, and could find...nothing. But I´ve learned....if it weren´t for the Web, we´d be perfectly happy with the bins we have. Question now is, how shall we keep this thread going till 2010? Best Wishes to all contributors, have a good weekend!

Leif · Oct 25, 2008

Sancho said:
Question now is, how shall we keep this thread going till 2010?

How about some inane comments? I've now done my bit.

I can't understand your impatience to get some super duper sparkling brand new bins. Don't you have lots to play with already?

I also think there is a lot of marketing in the design of these things. I'm sure you could get comparable performance with traditional doublet lenses by using a fixed flat window in front of the objective, move the objective to focus, and throw in the latest coatings, and decent eyepieces. But you would not be able to market them as having triplet objectives, or low dispersion elements.

That assumes of course that the major part of the increased cost of these new bins comes from the extra low dispersion elements in the objectives. Nikon are using ED glass in their low end zoom lenses, so ED glass per se cannot be expensive, though I suppose there are different grades of the stuff. It might of course be the case that they also improve the eyepieces in these new designs.

Leif · Oct 25, 2008

Sancho said:
It´s at times like this I´m delighted I´ve never bought any shares.

Psst: Now is the time to buy shares. Warren Buffett agrees too, and he might know a thing or two ...

Sancho · Oct 25, 2008

Leif said:
Psst: Now is the time to buy shares. Warren Buffett agrees too, and he might know a thing or two ...

Yeah, but, much as though I admire the Buffet/Gates Human Face of Capitalism, if I bought shares I´d just spend the entirety of the next 12-year cycle worrying about them, and reducing my lifespan. It´s far less stressful to worry about irrelevant playthings like binoculars. When the only thing you have to worry about is their non-availability, you know you have enough in life.

Sancho · Oct 25, 2008

Leif said:
I can't understand your impatience to get some super duper sparkling brand new bins. Don't you have lots to play with already?

It may be the pointless search for the Universal, Platonic Binocular of which all earthly binoculars possess only certain attributes. Or it may be my Fickle Shallowness.

Re. your comment about the Marketing of these things and the possibility of producing comparable bins in a simpler, cheaper way (sorry, I don´t know how to include two quotes on one post), you know a lot more about bino-design than do I, but I´m sure you´re right. I have similar thoughts every time I look through my EII´s. Even allowing for the whole porro/roof difference, I don´t know what type of glass they use but it can´t be expensive if they´re still available at 350 euro.

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